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Ruth Kelly is new education secretary in Britain.

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00:33 / 24.12.04

Tony Blair's latest kid on the block is new Education Minister Ruth Kelly.This woman belongs to a group called "Opus Dei."Perhaps the Temple board would be more fitting to post this one,as occulists would be aux fait with who this group are.
They are a fundemantal right wing Roman Catholic organisation organised under similar lines as the Freemasons.Despite their faults and unspeakable corruption over the years the aim of Freemasonry was,and is the separation of Church and state,and the defeat of the "powers of tyrany and superstition."Judge true Freemason's by their enemies of past,fundemantal Christians,The Vatican,Comunists,Nazis.
however the agenda of Opus Dei is the complete opposite,the resurgenge of the powers of tyranny and superstition.They are sworn to make the Pope spiritual leader of the planet,and impose Roman Catholic values upon you whether you like it or not.I am not anti Catholic,I am anti-Vatican,they are one of the most disgusting groups ever in history,responsible for millions of deaths.etc..etc..
What do people think of this??

unheimlich manoeuvre

01:06 / 24.12.04

The Guardian December 21, 2004

It began at Wheelers restaurant in London's St James's, where Opus Dei supporter Petronella Wyatt introduced Quinn (codename "Bimberly") to the unsuspecting Blunkett. Thus began the torrid affair which - as the west London cell of Opus Dei had planned - was to bring the home secretary down and lead to Kelly's elevation. Fellow Opus Dei sympathiser Cherie Blair has been pressing Kelly's claims, and the organisation now believes Kelly can become PM at the 2009 election.

...

Sorry for my cynicism. How about there not being a hidden conspiracy? *They* don't need to hide.

04:39 / 24.12.04

They are sworn to make the Pope spiritual leader of the planet,and impose Roman Catholic values upon you whether you like it or not.I am not anti Catholic,I am anti-Vatican,they are one of the most disgusting groups ever in history,responsible for millions of deaths.etc..etc..
What do people think of this??

If they don't have heaven on their side, which I really doubt that they do, then fuck em. Fuck em all.

The real powers will kick them back to wherever they came from so hard that they'll have no choice but to wake up, and it'll be the real beings dragging them back out of the hell they've made for themselves, out of compassion.

Here's hoping they remember their souls for Christmas.

Arguments may be won by waiting,
rather than making an aggresive move;
by withdrawing rather than advancing.
By moving without appearing to move,
by not making a show of strength,
but by conserving it well;
by capturing without attacking,
by being armed, but with no weapons,
great battles may be won.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

06:40 / 24.12.04

Aside from the Opus Dei stuff, I've heard Ms Kelly tipped in various corners as the future first female Labour PM.

Anyone reckon her chances?

09:16 / 24.12.04

While I agree that Christian fundamentalist groups do tend to attract 'driven' individuals, often with all manner of personal issues, I think I'd shy away from casual use of "madwoman" here...

10:50 / 24.12.04

Not really a comment on suspicious fundamentalist bent, but it is good to have a woman with young children in the post, as opposed to yet another out of touch suit...

11:12 / 24.12.04

Just because she is a woman, does not mean she isn't also 'a suit' or even in a suit...

But, yeah, I think its a bit much to be calling Ruth Kelly a mad women... and the whole conspirracy angle leaves me inclined to ask for it to me moved to the Temple...

22:31 / 24.12.04

Hey sleaze,

Don't mistake this as me trying to pick an argument or anything, but I'm not sure why this should be moved to the Temple. Neither of these forums has more to do with 'conspiracy' than the other, and seeing as this is actually about a political party it's probably better suited to here. Actually the whole Opus Dei gives it a pretty good angle so I'm not sure. It seems pretty much 50/50. I'm just not sure why the Temple gets lumped in with conspiracy when it's usually politicians causing conspiracy in the first place.

Put this post down to pissed up Christamas idiot if you want, but seeing as it's primarily about someone going into the 'Labour' party, I'm not sure.

00:11 / 25.12.04

Yeah perhaps "madwoman" was a bit of an off the cuff exageration......then again.Opus Dei is an organisation; like other branches of the Vatican,that have a pathological obsession with other peoples sex lives,to the point where the spread of HIV and unwanted pregnancy to impoverised people in the third world is preferable to the use of birth control and condoms.
This lady is certainly driven,a real single minded carreer person.A woman with kids getting political power?I'm all for that,but not this woman,one wonders how she fits them into her day?Is she a good mother,or will her children grow up with issues?
She's from N.Ireland,politicians there have high rates of "insanity,"I should know!The hangover that R.Catholisism has left in Ireland has been frightning,the awful child abuse,children in orphanages were beaten to death by nuns and monks up until a generation or two ago,when will the Church put it's hands up,admit it happened and say sorry?The Protestants can be as bad,bigotry is their perogative.
Let's just say as an Irishman I will be very frightened if that woman becomes PM.Then again,what's the alternatives, they could be as bad in different ways?Would Ruth Kelly have led us into Iraq?Depend if she had a choice or not,the PM is only the personality and face of the system?
Opus Dei is not a conspiracy,they certainly seem more transparent than the Freemasons ever where.This thread does not belong to the Temple board,it's pure politics,just like Christianity is most of the time.

ONLY NICE THINGS

00:27 / 25.12.04

Is she a good mother,or will her children grow up with issues?

These are the only two options.

Tryphena Absent

00:46 / 25.12.04

Anyone reckon her chances?

Ner, never heard of her until now, if you can't even get publicity until you're in the cabinet then it's pretty unlikely. And she's bound to drop out... she's very young for this position.

ONLY NICE THINGS

02:10 / 25.12.04

Also, I believe she has stated that she will, or at least currently _does_, get home in time to put her children to bed, which should limit her effectiveness and ability to get on. Parliament is still not really organised for this kind of approach...

08:20 / 25.12.04

I tend to think of the key difference between the temple and the switchboard is one of a faith-based approach that seems to privileges religious belief versus an evidence-based approach that privileges documented evidence. This dichotmy might be simplistic, especially when many Temple regulars retain a focus on the evidence of results, but it is the rule of thumb I would use, others might disagree.

To return to Mrs Kelly – she hasn’t just ‘[gone] into the Labour party’ – she has been a Labour MP for 7 years.

Based on the evidence available in the link above, she has also spent a period as an economics journalist at the Guardian and serviced in the Treasury. Based on this, it seems far more likely that she has entered the cabinet based on her abilities as a minister rather than any purported membership of a religious sect.

09:04 / 25.12.04

Yeah perhaps "madwoman" was a bit of an off the cuff exageration......then again.Opus Dei is an organisation; like other branches of the Vatican,that have a pathological obsession with other peoples sex lives,to the point where the spread of HIV and unwanted pregnancy to impoverised people in the third world is preferable to the use of birth control and condoms.

"Pathological" in your opinion - but then, this gets us into definitions of what constitutes psychological pathology, and whether the presence of such pathology justifies the term "madwoman".

I don't want to rot the thread unduly, though. Just be a little more circumspect with the m-word in the future, hmm?

03:55 / 26.12.04

Yes,my description of her as a "madwoman" are purely my opinion as opposed to a strictly defined hard fact.
"Pathological" is a loose term in this context which means compulsively motivated.This I think is pretty much fact as far as the Catholic Church and sex are concerned.
She certainly got the .hjob because of her ability as opposed to her being a member of Opus Dei.There has never been as far as I know a presedent of the USA,even a candidate for election who has not been a Freemason.I am in sympathy with Masonry as a whole,but the USA is an example of Masonry gone wrong,particularly with their present Presedent Mr.Bush.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

07:23 / 28.12.04

But can you point to any evidence that US Government policy has been made following the tenets of Freemasonry? The problem with the whole thing, and this 'Opus Dei' group, is that, even if they believed they run the world and even if the rulers of the world were all members, that doesn't necessarily mean they run the world. It's like the Bilderberg group. How scary and evil can they be when Peter Mandelson is supposedly a member? You might as well start generating conspiracy theories about how the Oscars are only ever given to films produced in the last year. Doesn't that strike you as suspicious? Or how the Croydon Girls Grammar School PTA consists only of parents of girls at that school? Doesn't that seem odd?

Conspiracies about secret groups running the world, shorthand for "I don't want to deal with real life."

This message was brought to you on behalf of my secret lizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzard masters.

16:09 / 28.12.04

Hello, a message from Spain (later it'll become relevant) to shed some light on how an established Opus Dei group works.

Here in Spain Opus Dei has been on of the major Catholic forces since the dictatorial times. It really has nearly nothing to do with what you could call "mainstream catholics". In fact, Opus Dei is seen here more like a social force, a lobby if you want, than anything else.
All along Spain you have Opus Dei fellows (a large part of Aznar's ministers and political friends, for example) in power positions. In the right (or right-center) wing of Spanish politics you have two main catholic blocks, Opus Dei and Legions of Christ. Both of them are a large part of the (now) second political force of Spain, the Popular Party, fighting for power in the structure of the party.

Referring to the ideology of Opus Dei, and setting aside a very rigid morality and right-to-the-word following of the Pope (for example, Opus Dei families use to have from 3 or 4 to 12 children), Opus Dei (also called "La Grande Obra", The Big Work) tends to create, and here it has created, a client network, because all of the members have to pay a part of their incomes to the Opus and also have the moral duty of helping other members in need. The latter usually translates as promoting other members in firms, for example...

I hope I brought a different point of view in this. By the way, all of this is mainstream press in Spain.

[pd if here in Spain we were to dismiss or simply do anything with each one of our Opus Dei ministers we had had to be in the streets for 8 years...]

01:44 / 29.12.04

I never suggested any sort of a conspiracy with this womans appointment.No,the US govt. especially the latest incarnation have never been to good at enacting the high principles of Freemasonry as intended(I hope) by those who signed the declaration of independance.
As a patriotic Irishman and in sympathy with the forces of true Masonry I am merely stating my contempt for this silly bitch.(my opinion only folks!!)What I'm going to do instead is send her a letter with a few condoms,and a statement that will be an honest blasphemy to her cult.
On a more serious note,it's hardly the end of the world,but I don't like Blair's goverment as it is,reeks of big-brother US style politics,what is this woman going to put in place in education.Hail Mary's instead of some badly needed sex-education for Britain's ignorant clap ridden teenage pregnancy schoolkids?
Aw,who gives a toss?Does anyone agree with me?I make no secret that I am radically opposed to this group,and all they hold dear.I'm sure the feelings mutual.We've already had one Prime Minister that was into the occult,a Tory,about 1900 or so,forget his name.There was another one in more recent times,well he didn't make the PM's job,but he was into the nastier end of the occult scene.
His name I won't reveal,I respect the man's privacy.

Regrettable Juvenilia

02:08 / 29.12.04

To be honest, I'm thoroughly annoyed by you because there are perfectly valid reasons to be concerned over Ruth Kelly's appointment, which don't necessitate the use of the term "silly bitch" and "madwoman" or casting aspersions on her family life. You also reveal your own contempt for the people in danger of being most affected by Kelly's views when you talk about "ignorant clap ridden teenage pregnancy schoolkids".

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

08:50 / 29.12.04

His name I won't reveal

And here we go.

As Fly says, there are plenty of other reasons not to trust this woman, as there are with many members of this government, many of whom have probably never sworn allegiance to anything more shadowy than the scouts (or guides).

19:24 / 29.12.04

Yes,you're right,my ranting and raving about her has done little to furthur any points I may have on the subject,and has led the focus of the thread away from the central theme.I was thinking aloud,people who do that too much are generally the mad and silly ones!
For all I know she could turn out to be a fine Education Secretary,her perceived religio-political allegiances may have little effect on how she performs in that job?

Our Lady Has Left the Building

13:16 / 30.12.04

Stranger things have happened. After all, David Blunkett managed to overcome his blindness to be an evil, vindictive, bigoted, rascist turd, so who knows what Ruth Kelly might achieve?

Unconditional Love

06:52 / 02.01.05

our nine ladies dancing, i hope your lizard serpent masters arent confusing there kundalini experiences with external world events again? we all know the underground naga people dont really exsist.and thats a fact. ?

Unconditional Love

07:21 / 02.01.05

some quotes from opus dei literature.

You shall not buy books without the advice of an experienced Christian. It is so easy to buy something useless or mischievous. Often people believe they are carrying a book under their arm ... but they only carry a load of mud. (Josemaria Escriva, The Way, #339)

Woman are so sinful and are responsible that we have been dislodged from the garden of eden. And the only possibility for them to lessen their guilt is by subordinating themselves... ``You should be like a carpet where people can step onto'' he explained... (Heard by a lot of people at an information evening of the Opus Dei in Dornbirn Austria. easter 1994. from the book "gottes rechte kirche" by t.m. hofer)

#643: do not reveal the secrets of your apostolate: don't you see that the world is full of selfish not-understanding?

#655: I can not stop to tell you about the importance of "discretion". maybe it is not the spire of your weapon but at least it is the handle of it.

transcript from a finnish tv documentary about opus dei

friendly advice from an opus dei father

an example from the above link>

Coeducation Revisited for the 21st Century
In his article he writes:

For example, could one imagine that the European Parliament, representing the community of European nations, would propose that homosexual relationships be given legal sanction equivalent to marriage? Indeed it would be hard to find similar situations in history, unless it be the pre-Christian paganism of the Roman Empire (cf. St. Paul's Letter to the Romans l: ll-20) or the behaviour of the barbarian hordes of central Asia as they poured into a weak and decadent empire.
No Comment.

The problems of schools in 1980:

drug abuse, alcohol abuse, pregnancy, suicide, rape, robbery, and assault.
We all know that. but who is to blame for (besides the coeducation

) that:

The secularist ideology of the Enlightenment, with its concepts of the inevitability of progress, the goodness of human nature in the primitive state, equality of condition as the goal of morality, etc., and its philosophical offspring in the works of Freud, Marx, Darwin, and Mill, has been influential in shaping the moral behaviour of society.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unconditional Love

07:45 / 02.01.05

something else i would like to add, politics is largely based on philosophical view points which often ferment not only in the minds of lovers of sophia, but also within religous groups, consider the thule society within nazi germany or the black sun group within nazi ideaology, look at martinism in france and haiti, mythic structures are as influential within politics as are the idealogy based political structures, thoughts arent seperate catagories that divide between the mythic and logical, no matter how much certain groups of people would like that to be the case, ie we have a certain way of thinking around here go back to where you belong.dont invade our thought patterns with yours. as nicely and clean catagorised as that may be for convineience it does not equate with my own human experience.

21:39 / 02.01.05

This is all very well, but I'm still not sure if my mind isn't being controlled by tey " Greys ", goddamnit.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

06:28 / 03.01.05

'lovers of sophia' aren't related to 'friends of Dorothy' are they?

unheimlich manoeuvre

14:15 / 03.01.05

(threadrot) Philodorothy: the love of Dorothy? (/threadrot)

wolfangel: The secularist ideology of the Enlightenment, with its concepts of the inevitability of progress, the goodness of human nature in the primitive state, equality of condition as the goal of morality, etc., and its philosophical offspring in the works of Freud, Marx, Darwin, and Mill, has been influential in shaping the moral behaviour of society

"the goodness of human nature in the primitive state" was proposed by Rousseau ("man is born free, but he is everywhere in chains") in the Social Contract and he was a Romantic. with all due respect, I feel you have made a number of oversimplifications. Romanticism was at least as influential in the creation of society as the Enlightenment.

14:35 / 03.01.05

That passage in Wolfangel's post seems to be a quote from an Opus Dei publication: your beef is with them.

unheimlich manoeuvre

16:01 / 03.01.05

damn holey holy crap Batman! foiled again.
sorry, I was wrong.

18:04 / 03.01.05

I have no idea what most of the points on this thread are alluding to but one thing that instantly comes to mind, before any other point

If Blair appointed her, then she cannot be trusted

(great line about Blunkett higher up on this thread, laughed heartily at that one)

23:14 / 03.01.05

This is all very well, but I'm still not sure if my mind isn't being controlled by tey " Greys ", goddamnit.

Maybe you're just PARA.

GrEyZ Cn B AnNoYiN : (

: ( : ( : (

23:21 / 03.01.05

If Blair appointed her, then she cannot be trusted

I'm starting to think that whoever at all has been appointed now cannot be trusted. If they're there, someone has got to them, they've sold out somewhere, big style.

The whole thing needs clearing out, get the fascists out who lurk behind the scenes, making all the speeches, laws etc, because I'm beginning to think that Blair/Bush etc are just masks to be worn, avatars that get pushed around by the real power.

I don't mean 12 foot Lizards or any of that shit, I mean a number of groups of very wealthy, very evil, very powerful CUNTS, who just take the piss time and time again. It only ever gets worse because they just can't stop being greedy. They want more, and more, and more.....

Erm, sorry for ranting.

Unconditional Love

07:19 / 04.01.05

just click those heels together 3 times,john major is no more, the grey is gone.

07:22 / 04.01.05

Methinks those would, basically, quite simply be huge business interests you're talking about there, Vahku, for the most part at least...

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