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Teaching comics

 
 
sleazenation
11:19 / 11.12.04
OK I was thinking the other day about how literature is taught at university and imagining what a module on comics would have to include. Now I realise that there are probably a number of comics syllabuses and reading lists for such modules from around the world all ready in existence, but I figured it might be interesting to start form scratch devising a 14 week program with an attendant reading list to offer a broad guide to comics

To set some ground rules, a comics syllabus would have to the whole of comics history, and ideally focus on a lot more than the American mainstream of superheroes. So while its necessarily going to miss a lot out of good stuff, it also needs to cram in a hell of a lot of historically important comics.

So who’s game?
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
12:08 / 11.12.04
I would start with comic strips, especially Flash Gordon. Not because Flash Gordan was a great strip, but because it was SO influenctial to early comics artists who used Raymond as a template for how to draw. The other reason would be that most of the early comics were either reprintes of comic strips, or drawn as if they were comic strips.

I'd also spend a lot of time on the variety of comics in the 30's and 40's, showing how the big anthologies had a super-hero strip, a pulp avenger strip, a jungle strip, etc... putting a spotlight on the pulp roots of comic books, and how they eventually helped in the death of pulp magazines.
 
 
sleazenation
12:36 / 11.12.04
You think? Personally I'd start a lot earlier in the 18th and 19th centuries with people like Rudolphe Töpffer, James Gillray, William Hogarth and Katsushika Hokusai, all of whom did substantial work on developing the visual language of comics - they are the proto-comics from which many modern comics derrive from...
 
 
sleazenation
12:54 / 11.12.04
But yes, I'd agree that Flash Gordon and the pulps would need to be covered in someway, as would the tradition of Newspaper strips in the US such as the Yellow Kid and penny publications such as Ally Slopers Half Holiday in the UK.

I'd then look at Famous Funnies and Pre WWII comics from the US, UK and Japan...
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
23:03 / 11.12.04
I taught a comics creation class at a summer program and included a few days worth of reading. Since I wanted to focus on construction and medium potential I inluded stuff like the middle portion of the Rorschach issue of Watchmen (panel/page layout) the first issue of Millar's run on The Authority (superheroes in the real world) and, most importantly, the scene in Cerebus (in Guys) in which Cerebus contemplates the role of his creator (Dave) and how malicious and untrustworthy a bastard he is. Evan Dorkin's Dork #7 which was entirely autobiographical, but also equally hilarious and toucing. There was other stuff, a few pages of Priest's Black Panther, Optic Nerve, mostly contemporary stuff, as it was only a three week program.

If I had the opportunity to treat it as a straight lit course and eschew construction issues, I'd probably start with early Marvel, talk about the introduction of human beings with inward emotion (as opposed to DC characters who literally wear their emotions on their sleeves, or, more accurately, chests). Yeah, I'd probably do a kind of paper chase, trailing the use and illustration of emotion in comic narrative. Throw in some Peanuts, of course. Sandman, most importantly the "So live" page. I mean, you can spend all day on that page. Honestly the way that We3 juxtaposes the undeniably cute tropes of anthropomorphism with Manganese violence probably deserves a period of class devoted to it. Clowes, Tomine, and Derek Kirk Kim, and the mundane. There's a day. Chris Ware and a brief timeline of advertising design. Akira is a must, as its characters have two emotional states, completely wooden and full stop apocalyptic, observe the oscillation between the two and recall your most recent teenage state.

I could probably think up a few more classes along those lines.
 
 
sleazenation
23:19 / 11.12.04
Interesting - my approach world attempt to offer a more chronological overview which would still cover a lot of the stuff you mention but perhaps under different headings.

For example Manga is a must, but I'm not sure I'd pick Akira to study simply because of its immense size if nothing else - something like Domu would give an insight into Otomo's style and still leave room for a variety of other types of manga...
 
 
XXII:X:II = XXX
00:21 / 12.12.04
Since I have in fact done this, I can cite the curriculum I used.

Understanding Comics by Scott McCloud
The muse and "Midsummer's Night Dream" stories from Sandman: Dream Country by Neil Gaiman
Ghost World by Dan Clowes
Watchmen by Alan Moore & Dave Gibbons
Sin City by Frank Miller
City of Glass by Paul Karasik & Dave Mazzuchelli, based on the novella by Paul Auster

I always feel like I forget one when I make a list like this, but since the one I usually forget is Sin City I'm guessing that's just habit.

We actually applied some of McCloud's techniques of breaking down comics into charts of their components, transitions, levels of representation vs. expressionism, juxtapositions of text to image, etc. Surprised the living fuck out of those who joined the class thinking we were going to talk about how troubled Wolverine is.

If I had it to teach again these days I don't know that I'd necessarily use all the same books, but I think that curriculum still stands up.

/+,
 
 
superdonkey
00:25 / 12.12.04
have you seen http://teachingcomics.org/? It's pretty comprehensive site, with a messageboard and downloadable resources and stuff.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
00:34 / 12.12.04
My knowledge of manga is EXTREMELY limited, but I do really enjoy the Phoenix series and as far as sequential art, it's pretty solid.

I'm not sure about the curriculum for a comics course, but I think you'd have to get some Kirby and Ditko in there.

I'd probably set out the class by first deciding where I wanted the class to start and where it should end up. For instance, should it be an overview class and only about comic books or include strips?? Should it go to the 80's or all the way to what's on the stands?

I'd also try terribly hard to not exclude something simply because I don't like it (such as Rob Leifeld, Todd McF, Jim Lee, the big bulgy boys). To get around that, I'd encourage the class to go out and bring in something they like. Maybe one class could be devoted to each member of the class talking about why they like whatever comic.

After all, one of the biggest strengths of the industry is that it is so varied that you cannot assume anything when someone says they read comics. It could mean they read Uncle Scrooge, it could mean they read Dan Clowes. I'd try to get the course to embrace that.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
00:41 / 12.12.04
oh and that link?

One has From Hell as a required text and another has Blue Monday...??? Are you seriously telling me a student is expected to read From Hell??? And what is covered in Blue Monday that makes it so ground-breaking and/or important?

And these classes are keeping Scott McCloud in business for sure. And every class has Maus... both volumes.

...sigh. Not to sound snooty but all those required texts lists are very predictable. Maybe I should research what I'd offer.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
06:25 / 12.12.04
The stuff before Little Nemo and Yellow Kid are things I haven't studied, so I know little about them. There are endless arguements about when comics "started", but I usually base it on the comic strips of the 20's and 30's, since the first comic BOOKS were reprints of that material.

If you can get any of the interviews with people like Harvey Kurtzman, Kirby and Eisner, they would be better than most historical texts.

And I don't know the lists out there list it, but the best book on comics in the 40's is Eisner's graphic novel "The Dreamer."
 
 
XXII:X:II = XXX
07:46 / 12.12.04
The course I taught was not about comics history so much as it was about the comic form itself. It also was only for half a semester, so if I was compiling a curriculum for Sleaze's 14 week course I'd probably double the number of books.

Personally, I think a history of comics is less compelling than the mechanics of the medium, but that's my bias. Inevitably I think one would get a bit too bogged down in superheros. The whole thing would probably play like an extended version of Comic Book Confidential. Better, I'd think, to teach a survey of what's cutting edge in the medium and try to cast that against history out of which those works emerge.

BTW, thanks for that link, even if much of it is predictable. That it exists is a good start to me.

/+,
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
16:19 / 12.12.04
Oh, I defintely agree. The link is a good start.
 
 
sleazenation
22:43 / 12.12.04
A lot of interesting stuff - thanks everyone.

I should just pause to say I'm not going to be teaching comics anytime soon - I was just thinking out loud about possible ways to teach comics.

Particularly interesting was VJBjnr's preference for a comics language/liguistics course, which I think could be a great deal of fun and incrediblely useful for aspiring (and established) comic creators. However, what I was thinking of when I came up with the idea of teaching comics was of a comics canon - encompasing the entire history of comics and its diversity and different traditions, both inside and outside of North America.

Something along the line of the Comics as Literature syllabus on the link Robitussin Jones posted above is much more what I had in mind. I have serious problems with having to overtly state the obvious value of comics as literature - a syllabus on the novel would not be called the novel as literature, so why should comics have to ?

I am also concerned that there is an ignorance that persists even among people who would consider themselves widely read comics fans of many of the key significant comics and genres of comics. What would those significant comics be? Well, that's what I was thinking of determining with this syllabus...

I was also interested In Mr Six's comments about the problems of always resorting to 'the usual suspects' of critically acclaimed comics from the past 20 years. As indicated above - there are many books before 1986 that have exerted a great influence on comics and their genres. Having said which, when Mr Six singles out Blue Monday as not being significant I was at a loss to come up with another comic that was particularly similar...
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
00:47 / 13.12.04
Sleaze, you can't come up with another Ameri-manga comic??

Surely the racks are bulging with the stuff. Also is non-Japanese manga a genre that is really significant?

I'd be more interested in not dodging the issue that comics like JLA and X-Men exist, then I'd throw them for a loop with Grey Shirt (the THINK story?) and Alec, perhaps with a few Little Nemo's thrown in to show them that just because it's old doesn't mean it can't blow your mind.

I really would try and mix up the graphic novel and single monthlies as much as possible. Making students read all of a monthly story is ignoring a key of the medium that it's digested in monthly bites. Kinda like looking at TV as a medium by watching DVD season box sets.

I still cannot get over the Midsummer Night's Dream story making the list. A story that uses another writer's work as its basis and isn't even that interesting as sequential art... I dunno.

I guess I'm assuming a lot regarding what would be worthy of being included in the syllabus. What do you think of this?
 
 
XXII:X:II = XXX
05:05 / 13.12.04
Sleaze: Particularly interesting was VJBjnr's preference for a comics language/liguistics course, which I think could be a great deal of fun and incrediblely useful for aspiring (and established) comic creators. However, what I was thinking of when I came up with the idea of teaching comics was of a comics canon - encompasing the entire history of comics and its diversity and different traditions, both inside and outside of North America.

I feel that would only be accessible to people who already have an interest in the medium, and I feel that interest can only be generated either in people already familiar with the form (who likely have some idea about the history as it is) or who are instructed in its particular strengths, idiosynchrasies and accomplishments. If you're teaching comic history, you'd be better served not dwelling on just the comics themselves or even the evolution of the industry, but the parallel history of the cultures in which they flourished. The comics of the last several years have definitely been reflective of the change in our culture since 9/11; take that away and you lose context.

Mister Six, who has a very long name which is dead sexy but is a bother to try to cite: I still cannot get over the Midsummer Night's Dream story making the list. A story that uses another writer's work as its basis and isn't even that interesting as sequential art... I dunno.

Aside from it winning the Hugo Award, I really just needed to use another story from Dream Country to justify the expense, and I'm not as fond of either the cats or Metamorpha ones. Hell, I'm not even crazy about the muse one since Kelley Jones' art drives me up the friggin' wall (he claims people's appearances change to simulate the dream experience; sounds to me like a cop-out for "I can't draw anyone the same way twice"), but it's got the script in the back, which was the best example I could think of at the time. I've since taught a single lecture to 10-14 year olds about writing for comics, and I used the scripts to Ultimates #7 and Morrison's silent ish of New X-Men, since I had them both and the scripts are online. (Amusingly, I think it was the Ultimates script I had to do a quick, realtime edit on as it was projected on a screen in front of these kids, since one of Millar's stage directions to Hitch had a "fuck" or something in it.)

/+,
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
12:48 / 13.12.04
Eek, sorry I was criticizing the syllabi in general, not yours specifically.

For script to page comparison, there are a few comics that none of us have read (aside from me) that Marvel published as 'rough draft' issues, complete with pencils and original script. I think they did Captain America Sentinel of Liberty #1 and Avengers #1 by Busiek and Perez. Both are interesting in that they deal with typical comic conceits writers like Gaiman don't really use, such as flashbacks, crowd scenes and combat. You can find them for 25 cents almost anywhere.

And in the comic scriptwriting book Titan put out a while back they print a ton of script samples, I recall Eddie Campbell being quoted about how hard it is to work from Alan Moore's beautifully written scripts and they printed Grant's pencil layouts for JLA Crisis Times Five part one which is funny. It also addressed that Todd McFarlane writes his scripts from the big fight scene outwards, often just drawing random pages and littering them around his studio before deciding which page comes first.
 
 
XXII:X:II = XXX
22:52 / 13.12.04
For script to page comparison, there are a few comics that none of us have read (aside from me) that Marvel published as 'rough draft' issues, complete with pencils and original script. I think they did Captain America Sentinel of Liberty #1 and Avengers #1 by Busiek and Perez.

I actually have the Cap rough draft ish, and I loves it. Certainly one of the better examples of writing via "The Marvel Method."

And I wasn't taking your "Midsummer Night's" comment personally; I was just explaining my own rationale, is all.

/+,
 
 
EvskiG
19:25 / 14.12.04
I tried to figure what topics I'd want to cover in a fairly comprehensive but U.S.-centric comics canon. Here's what I came up with:

Protocomics
Single-panel cartoons
Strips, part 1
The Golden Age and the rise of superheroes
Funny animal comics
Celebrity comics
Kid and teen-focused comics
Adaptations of literature
Crime comics
EC and horror comics
Strips, Part 2
The Silver Age at DC
The rise of Marvel
The Undergrounds
The Bronze Age
The 80s Renaissance
Rise of the Independents
The black-and-white boom
Strips, Part 3
Image
Eurocomics
Manga
The Modern Age

Lots of great stuff to fill in for each topic.
 
 
grant
16:02 / 15.12.04
You DWEEBS need to be starting with William Blake's America: A Prophecy and working up from *that*... possibly working in early political cartoons in the same week -- if you hit the origins of Uncle Sam in the 1800s, you can bring up Alex Ross' Uncle Sam later on in the syllabus when superheroes get all postmodern.

These are iconic stories told in pictures.



Actually, if you really want to start at the beginning, it'd be cave paintings and hieroglyphics, but that's a little heavy for a 14 week course. Maybe mention those in the beginning of the first lecture, work up to medieval illuminated manuscripts, then focus on Blake, who was doing something slightly different and much more comic-like.

It seems like children's books of the 1800s would also be important, because I think that's where Little Nemo and The Kin-Der-Kids came from. I'm not sure when Struwwelpeter came out, but that site claims it was translated by Mark Twain....
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
16:17 / 15.12.04
Yeah! I wouldn't trust anyone who didn't mention Blake. Too much of comics thinking seems to focus on comics as some sort of writerly pursuit, rather than an artistic one.

I think teaching comics would be something like teaching rap, or hip hop.
 
 
sleazenation
21:45 / 15.12.04
Ohhh lots of interest here... But I'm wanting to wait till my ibook gets back from the mac doctor before I really get into some more detailed replies.

Evskig - something along the lines of your canon is what I came up with, also arranged allong chronological lines - But something I think is very important is to show the broad variety of different approaches to comics that arose continiously throughout the syllabus rather than as an addendum that is tacked on unit at the end... Thus the format of famous funnies needs to be seen in contrast to the Illustrated Chips from the UK etc...

On Blake... its a tough call... I love Blake's work, and he certainly combine image and text to fantastic effect, and experimented with a variety of printing techiques, but tend to view his work as single independent illustrated panels rather than comics per se...

On teaching comics being like teaching rap/hip hop... could well be, but not because I think any of these things cannot or should not be taught in college/university but because they are all forms that have traditionally lacked much in the way of critical and academic attention. They have all been considered 'low art' , unworthy of study - which is pretty much the highest recommendation you can get that these works *need* to be studied.

That said I still think hat there is a significant difference between the existence of hip hop and rap as denigrated genres of an accademically respectable 'art', in this case, music, and comics which is a medium in its own right...
 
  
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