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Rummy Gets His Comeuppance

 
 
Liger Null
23:14 / 09.12.04
I didn't see a topic on this, and it's such big news:

Rumsfeld Q & A Session

I find the fact that American soldiers are getting more vocal about the Administration's incompetance in Iraq a very hopeful sign indeed. Any thoughts on this?
 
 
Hieronymus
02:54 / 10.12.04
The really lousy thing about it is that lots of neocon pundits are crying foul because a reporter helped the soldier throw the question at Rumsfeld. Nevermind that the goddamn question deserved to be asked on its own merit.

From the New York Times The captivating tale of speaking truth to power took another unexpected turn Thursday when it emerged that a reporter for The Chattanooga Times Free Press, Edward Lee Pitts, had previously discussed with Specialist Wilson and another soldier questions they might want to put to Mr. Rumsfeld.

Mr. Pitts, who is traveling with Specialist Wilson's unit, the 278th Regimental Combat Team of the Tennessee National Guard, said in an e-mail message to colleagues that he had learned that journalists would not be permitted to ask questions at Mr. Rumsfeld's meeting with the troops and had therefore encouraged Specialist Wilson to ask about the problem of insufficient vehicle protection.

"Beforehand we worked on questions to ask Rumsfeld about the appalling lack of armor their vehicles going into combat have," Mr. Pitts wrote in the message, which was posted on the Web on Thursday.


The fact that this country's media is so bullied and silenced by this administration, to the point where a reporter has to use a soldier to sneak a tough question under the bubble to get it through, makes me sick.

They should be throwing questions like that at Rummy and this administration every day of the week. This shouldn't be news or shocking. It should be a daily occurence.
 
 
Liger Null
20:49 / 10.12.04
And of course, this new journalism "scandal" will draw attention from the question every American should be asking:

So where is all the tax money going, then? If not to provide adequate equipment for the troops, then where?
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
01:55 / 11.12.04
Probably to build a fucking military Mars rocket or something insane like that. Did you see Rumsfeld's reaction? "I'm an old man, stop picking on me," basically.
 
 
sleazenation
12:00 / 11.12.04
I think it's dangerous to think of this as being Rumsfeld 'getting his comeuppance' - This is the bare minimum of pressing questions that demand an answer from the Secretary of Defense. A 'comeuppance' would involve far more than just having to face some inconvenient questions...
 
 
Liger Null
20:47 / 11.12.04
That's very true. But I think that it's becoming clear that Rumsfeld and the rest won't be able to hide behind the troops for long. And it sickens me that right wing pundits continue to cover for this administration-even at the expense of the soldiers they supposedly support.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:43 / 14.12.04
But I think that it's becoming clear that Rumsfeld and the rest won't be able to hide behind the troops for long.

I don't know... I don't think they *need* to. They won the election. So, for the next four years, assuming none of them cares too much about posterity, they can pretty much do what they want to. Rummy's been trying to spin this - claiming the soldier was pressured into asking the question by a journalist, for example - but ultimately I imagine that if making a complete hames of the occupation while alienating the military completely is not enough to get you kicked out of the Bush inner circle, a bit of a grilling by a commoner is not likely to break the Rumsfeld's back.
 
 
Liger Null
13:21 / 14.12.04
You seem to assume that just because Bush won the election that we're helpless, and I don't think that's entirely true.

Forgive me for being overly optimistic, but history shows that societal change CAN be effected from the bottom up. All we need is for enough people to get pissed off enough to raise their voices and take action.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:55 / 14.12.04
And.... that leads to the sacking of Donald Rumsfeld how? Or do you mean some sort of mid-term coup could result from massive popular protest?
 
 
sleazenation
14:16 / 14.12.04
Also, weren't the 'grass roots' of the American people given a chance to get rid of the Administration in which Rumsfeld serves in the Election last month. They failed to do so.
 
 
Liger Null
14:24 / 14.12.04
I don't care if Rumsfeld gets sacked or not. It wouldn't do any good; whoever Bush gets to replace him would most likely be worse.

I'm thinking about public opinion of the Iraqi War as well as the GOP in general. For example, we have a mid-term election in two years. The President can't do anything on his own; he needs the support of Congress. If people in Congress get the impression that supporting Bush may cost them re-election, they may think twice before doing so.
 
 
Liger Null
14:28 / 14.12.04
hey failed to do so.

By a very slim margin.
 
 
diz
19:15 / 14.12.04
I think it's dangerous to think of this as being Rumsfeld 'getting his comeuppance' - This is the bare minimum of pressing questions that demand an answer from the Secretary of Defense.

it's also worth noting that the line of criticism is entirely directed at the military's capacity to fight the war as ordered, not the decision to fight it in the first place, or even overall strategy, human rights abuses, etc.

the obvious response is that the Bush administration will be "forced" by this scandal to further increase military spending.

it's like "intelligence reform." when they cry "our intelligence agencies have become ineffective" it means they want three things: more money, less accountability, and relaxation of civil rights protections. because they've successfully framed the issue in terms of remedying current inadequacies instead of expanding already-bloated powers, they're going to get all three.

Forgive me for being overly optimistic, but history shows that societal change CAN be effected from the bottom up. All we need is for enough people to get pissed off enough to raise their voices and take action.

this is true, presuming that there is grassroots support which has yet to be untapped, but the people are not on our side right now and that's not going to change in the next four years. we'd be extremely lucky if it were to happen gradually over the course of the next forty. they have the grassroots advantage, frankly, and i hate to admit it but higher turnout anywhere other than the African-American community probably helps them.

frankly, we've kept ourselves content with the idea that we speak for the people, but i don't honestly think that's the case. i think that the American political system is floating on top of an effectively bottomless well of hate, zealotry, and ignorance, and any politician who panders to that we be rewarded, and anyone who bucks the tide will get lynched. if there's going to be any "grassroots uprising" in the near future, it's going to be against us and our perceived domination of the culture/treason/moral decay.

I'm thinking about public opinion of the Iraqi War as well as the GOP in general. For example, we have a mid-term election in two years. The President can't do anything on his own; he needs the support of Congress. If people in Congress get the impression that supporting Bush may cost them re-election, they may think twice before doing so.

that's not going to happen. pretty much every Congressional district in the country has been gerrymandered to within an inch of its life, specifically to cement control and prevent rapid turnover. any change in the House is going to be glacial. is it true that the House now has less turnover than the Soviet Politburo in its heyday?

the Senate is even more set in its ways. the best we can hope for in the Senate is a mass defection on the part of Chafee, Snowe, Collins, and maybe Specter, but that wouldn't even give us control of the Senate.

By a very slim margin.

not slim enough. anyway you slice the numbers, there's no way to build a solid Democratic electoral majority right now. Kerry did extremely well by keeping the gap that narrow, but they own the South, period. that gives them a built-in advantage which we have to fight to overcome in every other state. what this election proved is that margins are so narrow that we could win a lot of states, but the electoral college situation basically means we have to win all of those, and the odds are against that happening, barring a massive Depression-scale economic collapse which we can successfully pin on Reaganism.

and it's worth noting that Kerry's lead in California shrank significantly from Gore's, and Gore's was down a bit from Clinton's. the red counties in California are basically the Central Valley and the exurbs, and they're growing faster than the urban cores because our sprawl problem is out of control. some pollsters are predicting that California will be seriously in play in 2008. i don't think i need to tell you that if the Democratic party cannot count on California as a safe blue state, it cannot elect a President.

in any case, the Dems seem to be seriously considering responding to the election results by shifting even further to the right, which means that even if "we" won, we'd lose.

as far as progressives in this country go, we need to recognize that, in the words of the elder Dr. Jones, "we are pilgrims in an unholy land." we need to concentrate on protecting our enclaves and surviving long enough to start building up a credible opposition, from the ground up, starting in the areas we control.
 
 
Liger Null
20:35 / 14.12.04
we need to concentrate on protecting our enclaves and surviving long enough to start building up a credible opposition, from the ground up, starting in the areas we control.

How do you propose we do that? I'm not being sarcastic or anything; what you're saying makes a lot of sense. But what are some practical ideas that the average person can use?
 
 
diz
15:51 / 16.12.04
How do you propose we do that? I'm not being sarcastic or anything; what you're saying makes a lot of sense. But what are some practical ideas that the average person can use?

i don't entirely know. my basic drive here is towards building up communities (both local and translocal - islands of blue joined through the internet and other communications technologies) and helping them survive the shit-storms that are coming. my other guideline is thinking globally. we need to recognize that our higher loyalties are to the emerging global community, and the values of an open society, not to preserving the Democratic party or any other existing political institution for its own sake.

i think we need to spend less time tearing down the old order and more time building up the new one. the coming world is going to be built on human capital: knowledge and creativity, and the communities that nurture it. it revolves around interconnection and communication.

to those ends: network with people and connect them to each other. support the arts community. get financially solvent (if you aren't already) and prepare yourself for the coming crunch. locate yourself somewhere where you can maximize your ability to share knowledge and creativity. stay intellectually stimulated and stimulate others. promote good ideas through word-of-mouth.

political change in times of technological and economic revolution is basically a conflict between the community that aligns itself with the new and the one which allies itself with the old. we don't need to focus on controlling existing political institutions so much as we need to focus on nurturing our community. look at the 18th and 19th centuries: new technology and new economic systems emerged, a new community emerged around them, and simple demographic and economic changes made the rest inevitable.

they're winning now, but they're irrelevant in the long term, because they're based in technological and economic systems and cultural values which are maladaptive in the new world. we don't have to beat them: we just have to survive long enough for nature to take its course.
 
 
Liger Null
02:23 / 19.12.04
Thanks for the advice. Now to work on getting financially solvent...
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
17:16 / 20.12.04
What I find fascinating is how the press leaped on this, when the story has been around for MONTHS, and they just haven't bothered to ask about it during Rumsfeld's other press conferences. The US press is now completely worthless, unable to challenge power because they are part of it.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:07 / 22.12.04
And, speaking of Rummmy - we have the next scandal, that he was using a mechanical signature - a rubber stamp, in effect - on letters to the families of dead servicemen. If he'd been trying to keep up with the Iraqi bodycount I could understand this, but there really aren't that many to sign...

That article is interesting because it has Andrew Card saying that Rumsfeld has the confidence of the President, as if that were the only important thing, which in a sense it is. However, the fact that Rumsfeld has failed, again, to match the minimum expected achievement level, and appears once again to be getting away with it, suggests that the confidence of the President is actually not connected in any way to the competence of the agent in question. So, what are the criteria for gaining the confidence of the president? Spiffy dress sense? An avuncular manner? And what exactly does it take to lose it?
 
 
Ganesh
23:48 / 22.12.04
Well, one assumes that the confidence of the President (if the God's input is any example) is not "reality-based" - meaning one goes by nebulously stated intention rather than outcome.
 
 
grant
03:21 / 23.12.04
o, what are the criteria for gaining the confidence of the president? Spiffy dress sense? An avuncular manner?

He swallows.

And what exactly does it take to lose it?

Spitting?

Sorry, but somebody had to actually say it.
 
 
sleazenation
09:25 / 23.12.04
More to the point - what would Rummy have to do to get sacked?

Being caught on camera with his cock up the arse of a mutilated Iraqi child as he forces ballot papers down the child’s throat with, alternately, the barrel of a gun and the butt of a crucifix?

Or would this be another one of those ‘bad things’ that is what freedom is all about?
 
 
diz
13:24 / 23.12.04
However, the fact that Rumsfeld has failed, again, to match the minimum expected achievement level, and appears once again to be getting away with it, suggests that the confidence of the President is actually not connected in any way to the competence of the agent in question. So, what are the criteria for gaining the confidence of the president?

Dubya apparently places great stock in being able to look a man in the eye and judge his character. basically, you have to convince him that you're a stand-up guy and a straight shooter. unswerving loyalty to Bush and faith in Jesus probably helps with that. actual job performance doesn't seem to count for anything - it's Dubya's judgement of your character that counts for everything. in other words, you have to make a good first impression, then support him totally on everything from then on.

Vladimir Putin famously studied up on Bush, and learned that he places a high value on first impressions and his ability to judge a man's character. so, being a former KGB agent, and understanding (in a way that Bush never could) that people's judgements of some nebulous concept of character and senses of trust and connection with someone else are highly dependent on specific, learnable visual and non-visual cues like mannerisms and tone of voice and so on and so forth. based on this, Putin made sure that when he met Bush, he looked him square in the eye and carefully controlled his mannerisms and posture and tone of voice and whatnot to make Bush feel he was trustworthy.

since that point, he's managed to get exactly what he's wanted out of Bush in pretty much every interaction they've had, while at the same time giving nothing in return, and even opposed the war in Iraq without losing favor in the White House.

if Bush thinks you're an OK fella, it doesn't matter what you do.

And what exactly does it take to lose it?

well, it's worth noting that, in Dubya's world, there are only two sides to everything: good man and bad man, loyal ally and disloyal enemy, etc., so if you pass his faith-based test of character, you're ont he right side of the divide and you're in, probably forever unless you betray him.

so, to lose favor with Bush, Rummy would need to slam Bush in the press or write a nasty tell-all memoir. that's about it.
 
 
Hieronymus
16:27 / 23.12.04
Now those nasty reporters have gone and made the man sad.

From this news bit:

Donald Rumsfeld is offering condolences to the relatives of Americans killed Tuesday in Mosul and lashing out at his critics.

The defense secretary said he's "truly saddened" that anyone would think that he's not concerned about the safety of American troops. He said that he stays awake at night worrying about them.


Crocodile tears.
 
 
LykeX
17:38 / 23.12.04
So, in other words, the person in charge of national defense is suffering from sleep deprivation?

Maybe he's preparing evidence for an insanity plea.
 
  
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