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Let's Kick racism out

 
 
Benny the Ball
20:31 / 17.11.04
The worst game of football I've seen since the dark days of the eighties.

Yep, England played badly, no cohesion, etc etc.

No that's not what has gotten me angry,

The black players have been suffering 'monkey' chants. I hope that the Spainish fans are feeling very proud.

I feel fucking livid.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
01:03 / 18.11.04
God, really?

(decided not to watch it, primarily 'cause I couldnt bear to watch England fuck up again, even in a friendly)

Jeesus.

More semi-intelligent comment later, but if that was the case, I'm fucking horrified. (do afro-caribbean/brazillian players playing in Spain have to cope with this stuff? ie, is it the culture of spanish football?)
 
 
Axolotl
07:37 / 18.11.04
There was a good article in the Guardian yesterday talking about the fact that racism is vey much acceptable in spanish football. Sadly enough it seems this kind of thing is not unusual.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:56 / 18.11.04
I suspect opinions within Spain will differ. The treatment of Aragones demonstrates some massive cultural differences - compare Big Fat Ron, although he is now trying to get back on the horse.

On the other hand, I suspect a lot of Spaniards will say that it is not Spain or even Spanish football that is racist and thuggish, but specifically Madrid and Madrilenos. How true this is I just don't know... blaming Madrid is a bit of a national sport...
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
08:09 / 18.11.04
BBC report.
Guardian.

It was fucking vile. I just happened to catch the second half after finishing watching something else and, ugh. There were some suggestions that the Spanish fans were only doing it because the British press had brought it up earlier in the week, the old 'well you started it' 'defense'. Not following either football or the football press I have no idea whether that's true.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:31 / 18.11.04
Sort of a bit of both. The Spanish press, possibly reflecting public opinion, seems to feel that the British press, and by extension the English, were a) trying to "unsettle" the Spanish team by constructive accusations of racism towards Luis Aragones, and b) being oversensitive to a perfectly normal bit of training-ground banter (describing Thierry Henry as a mierda negro). They simply cannot see what the fuss is about, and as such are getting defensive at what they perceive as accusations that are a) groundless and b) seeking to represent Spain as an uncivilised "poor neighbour". As such, this particular outbreak of racist chanting was probably exacerbated by the ill-feeling before the game, but there's no guarantee it would not have happened anyway.

AS, I think, described criticising somebody for calling Thierry Henry a "black shit" as "PC gone mad" - the English objecting to racist abuse of black players because they are so racist themselves, and are neurotic about what is in fact a perfectly normal bit of byplay between fans and players. It's the usual bullshit, frankly.

I'd like to see swinging fines or points deductions. What we will probably get is an official rebuke, and maybe a command to play the next game behind closed doors, or the demotion of Madrid as an international venue.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
09:05 / 18.11.04
Knowing nothing about it, I suppose I'm just wondering if this kind of behaviour is a new thing in Spanish football, or whether to a certain extent it's always been around. And either way, whether the Spanish, or being charitable, Madrid crowd would have acted like that if they'd been playing, say, a South American side. Or if there's something about English football at the moment that brings out the worst in everyone.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
09:27 / 18.11.04
Carlos Ferreyra Nunez, co-ordinator of Spain's United Against Racism group, believes the problem is widespread in the country's national game. "Racism is a cancer that has touched every aspect of football," he claimed. Racist behaviour could be seen "every week and all over the country", he told BBC Sport. And Nunez accused domestic managers of fuelling the problem by giving tickets to passionate "ultra right-wing" fans. He also claimed that even the top black players in the Spanish top-flight are exposed to racism on a regular basis, even if they are reluctant to talk about it.
 
 
nedrichards is confused
15:50 / 18.11.04
It was very, very depressing indeed to see and I don't know if it was the mix, the positioning of the Sky microphones or anything else but it was very loud indeed. Not the whole crowd by any means but a substantial minority, no writing it off as the actions of 50 drunk twats here. Frankly if I were Ashley Cole, Shaun Wright Phillips etc. I'd have walked off. Racism shouldn't be part of anyones normal working environment, public entertainer or no. Can't tell you how much I wanted one of our lads to stick it in the net at that point.

Regarding the fuss in midweek I was particualrly amused to see Aragones bring up the British Empire as a reason we should remove the plank from our own eye first. Which sort of glosses over most of South and Central America doesn't it, really?
 
 
The Falcon
16:48 / 18.11.04
God, I hate England.

But, yes, even I wanted wee Shaun to do a 'mezzy' and slam one home.

Seemed much worse second half?
 
 
Brigade du jour
21:37 / 18.11.04
Got to love The Sun, with their headline

'SUN'S MESSAGE TO RACIST SPAIN BOSS AND HIS COUNTRY'S NEANDERTHAL FANS - ONE ARMADA AND NO WORLD CUPS'

I wonder if they can even see what's wrong with that message.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
22:16 / 18.11.04
Well yes. And much as the Spanish behaviour deserves condemnation, I don't think the British footballing establishment should be quite so secure in its glass house.

A lot of valuable progress has been made in the British game, but there's still a hell of a long way to go.
 
 
pear
10:12 / 19.11.04
I suspect our newspapers holier than thou outrage is going to backfire.

It wasn't that long that England fans were singing "I'd rather be a p*ki than a turk" And it still goes on around a lot of grounds
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:36 / 19.11.04
Oh yeah. Anyone who grew up around Leicester has a degree of familiarity with some teams' supporters' robust approach to race. There's a lot to do still in the UK, and the last outbreak of racist chanting attested in Britain was - what - three weeks or so ago at Millwall?

However, there is a different between a small group of headbangers and 48,000 people, a singificant number of whom are bouncing up and down to demonstrate that they aren't black. I'm glad that the FA are pursuing this, and, it seems, that the Spanish press are starting to think that maybe there *was* some unacceptable racist chanting after all..

Will it be enough? I don't know. Aragones has very cleverly, and with the complicity of the RFEF, turned this into an Spain vs England issue, and/or a "common sense" vs "political correctness" issue, rather than a racism vs anti-racism issue, which serves him very well. I hope it won't work as a strategy...
 
 
pear
13:34 / 19.11.04

If it was the Liverpool game, then it was booing Traore for fronting up to Marvin Elliot after a pretty nasty tackle, it got pretty widely misreported. The rest of it was hillsborough stuff from our end, and Budapest stuff from theirs. Tatseful all round really.

Still hear the odd bit here and there (you black c**t etc) Sick though it is, I haven't heard anything sustained and by as seemingly a large proportion of the crowd at millwall (or elsewhere outside of our one and only game in Europe) since the 80s
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
15:32 / 19.11.04
Oh, I'm not suggesting it's the same thing, at all. I'm very glad that the FA is pursuing it and I think that there should be outside (UEFA/FIFA) comment/monitoring/discipline.

My point was more that our press are just as happy to play this as a UK vs. Spain issue and as per the quote above, protesting racist behaviour with nationalist rhetoric is not progress.
 
 
nedrichards is confused
19:40 / 19.11.04
Agreed, just relived that there seems to be enough of a general disgust thing that when it happens, anywhere, it gets reported and stampted on, loudly.

[wow, too many commas,]
 
  
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