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Photophobic

22:33 / 15.11.04

I remember a time in my early teens when I vowed I would never again appear in a photograph or film (in the mid-to-late '80s, the idea of mini video cameras was unheard of). I was going through a decade-long crisis of confidence in terms of my appearance; partly a suddenly moonrock/margherita complexion; partly a sudden attack of self-consciousness, the feeling that I could never appear 'natural' on-camera (I suspect this was related to dawning recognition that I was a gay man (badly) faking heterosexuality).

My camera-avoidance was remarkably successful. There's almost no filmic evidence of me between the ages of 14 and 22 - and a good thing too. Happily, the first inkling that I might not photograph hideously was at my graduation, in 1993. I'd recently returned from my Antipodean elective, and sported a full beard. I think I rather suited it, and am seriously considering allowing my goatee to spread...

It'd be wrong, however, to claim that my graduation photos ushered in a new era of confidence in photographic imagery of myself. Generally speaking, I still loathe and detest photographs of myself. The few exceptions - when I find it possible to enjoy my captured image - are enough to evoke extreme gratitude. I can see why certain photographers are feted. I do, at least, appear marginally more 'natural' in photos - in that I no longer look like I'm desperately trying to simulate heterosexuality.

How about you? How do you relate to images of yourself?

22:53 / 15.11.04

I am completely with you Ganesh. Although, actually I do have a lovely photo of you so you clearly have a skewed view of yourself!

Relevantly, today I had to have a photo taken of myself for the work telephone database. My contract is six months, and I've been there for almost three. By the time they get round to publishing the database I will be gone and the database will be out of date.

So I stood there and they took the photo and then they asked me what I thought and I completely didn't care in the slightest what it looked like, or in turn what I looked like because when it goes into the 'public domain' I won't be there so it won't matter.

It was really, really liberating. Normally I try to avoid having my photo taken because basically it bothers me that there I am having a great time and feeling like I look nice and generally getting on with my life, and then someone shows me a photo they've taken when I thought everything was cool and I realise I looked like a complete and utter fuckwit.

To be frank I'd rather not know.

I'm definitely an 'other side of the camera' person. I don't like the attention that a photograph (by necessity) entails, the 'all eyes on you' feeling and there are very few pictures of me I like.

Maybe I'm vain - I must be because everyone else always like the picture of me that I hate which is very weird. I can't see myself through their eyes at all and I can't look at a picture of myself objectively.

Regardless, I'd rather not put myself through the pain of feeling bad about my likeness. Life is far nicer when you don't have to look at yourself living it.

23:02 / 15.11.04

Maybe I'm vain - I must be because everyone else always like the picture of me that I hate which is very weird. I can't see myself through their eyes at all and I can't look at a picture of myself objectively.

Well, yes, this is very me. And, just as you have a photo of me which you think looks okay, I've taken photos of you looking beautiful and natural and luscious. It really is an 'eye of the beholder' thing, I guess. I'm a lot happier than I used to be, with photos of myself. I'm never sure if that's because I'm genuinely more comfortable with how I look or because I'm used to naff images (for the same work reasons)...

23:29 / 15.11.04

Why is that?

Why can we not look at photos of ourselves with anything other than bitchy critcism?

Seriously, I want to know. Are we really horribly vain? I just don't get it. I look at a picture of myself and see all the bad bits, yet someone else can look at it (a la you in my case and me in your case) and proclaim it lovely. Someone must be wrong! Is it that people are just being kind? But that can't be right because I'm not being kind, you actually do look fab in the picture I have, I'm not just saying it.

I don't understand the human psyche at all.

What makes a person see themself in such a negative light whilst anyone else that looks at the same picture sees something completely different?

23:48 / 15.11.04

What makes a person see themself in such a negative light whilst anyone else that looks at the same picture sees something completely different?

I suspect it's adolescence. We've spent years wading through the hideous swamps of adolescence lumbered with a hateful burden of self-consciousness/loathing which we then attach to our physical appearance. The face in the mirror become a symbol of our failure to connect, to do X, Y, Z. It becomes negatively charged to us, while others simply see it as a face.

In time, I hope, one mellows towards one's face. I'm certainly much happier with mine than I used to be - but then, I used to hate my face because I looked skinny and insubstantial. One of the fringe benefits of becoming a gutty bloater is that my face looks much better fattened up a little. Even my mother says so.

00:01 / 16.11.04

I'm with you both. I hate being in pictures, always have. I try not to be an arse about it, and won't cause a scene if a camera appears at a social occasion, but I avoid it where I can.
And I've always assumed that this is just because I imagine that I'm better looking then I actually am. Like my voice sounds nicer in my own ears. And I think I probably lie to myself about it in small ways that reinforce the delusion. For example, if I look in a mirror, I'll stand up straighter and kinda gather my features in an unnatural (at least not realistically sustainable) way. I'll look at myself straight on, not from some less elegant angle. I don't really know what I look like in profile. This might not be true of everyone, but I know I'm not alone. I see people in shops do it - shoulders back, chin out, cheeks sucked in... Point is, when we see a photograph we're often caught in not quite such optimal conditions and perhaps it's partly the disconcerting unfamiliarity that's repulsive, as well as the challenge to a comforting illusion.

00:07 / 16.11.04

Ahhh. You see, it's completely different for women. As a teenager I used to tie a jumper around my waist to cover up my "fat arse' but I swear, if I had the body now that I had then I would run up and down the street in hot pants. Lots.

Men tend, in general, to look better as they got older, more distinguished. Women just look, well...older I guess. And a bit more droopy. (At this point I feel oddly compelled to share the fact that I cannot yet tuck my nipples in my knickers, and fortunately it looks like a long time coming due to good bra-wearage.) But it does appear to be that the fate of women is to sag and the fate of men is to go elegantly grey around the temples.

Regardless, it's not a recent thing, this dislike of my reproduced image. And the more I consider it, the more I think it might have something to do with the fact that you only ever view yourself in reflection. Maybe it's like listening to your own voice on tape - it's just so different from what you are used to that it's a complete shock.

Oh dear. Scary don't-go-there thought: You look at yourself in the mirror everyday and you think you mostly look OK, but that's only because you are used to your own reflected image, because you've seen it everyday, several times a day for 20/30x years.

But in actual fact you could be absolutely bloody hideous and yet be so used to yourself that you can't see it.

Fuck. And who would ever tell you?!

00:20 / 16.11.04

Men tend, in general, to look better as they got older, more distinguished. Women just look, well...older I guess. And a bit more droopy. [tactfully ignoring nipplage history] But it does appear to be that the fate of women is to sag and the fate of men is to go elegantly grey around the temples.

I think it's the fate of both women and men to a) sag, and b) go grey. The rest is a matter of differing societal emphasis. In the gay male mainstream, losing one's youthful bloom is almost as disaaastrous as it is for a woman. Fortunately, there have evolved a number of gay subcultures which eroticise the features of middle age. And, of course, those of us who have always been attracted to older men.

Looking at photos of myself (something I assiduously avoided for many years, and which still makes me wince slightly), I've come to the conclusion that I'm looking better as I get older. I looked hideous as a teen/twentysomething, so, frankly, the only way is up.

00:28 / 16.11.04

That's like the people who smell funny thing. You think to yourself, how can anybody be so horribly whiffsome and not be aware of the fact? Surely they know? And then you realise that no, they don't know, because if they did they'd do something about it. Which then makes you scared that maybe you stink something rotten, too, and just don't realise it either.

Have only been photographed and been aware of being photographed three times in the last fourteen years, on occasions where refusing would have been considered not just a bit rude, but downright offensive. A wedding, a graduation and, er, another one that I forget right now.

I think my face needs movement, you know? The mouth gabbling on or the eyes darting backwards and forwards in a shifty manner - it pulls attention away from the wonky characteristics that become more noticable in a static photo.

Hmm. Maybe that's why posed photos are the worst. I'm not massively fussed about candid shots. It's just standing in front of the camera and having somebody order that you smile. How the fuck do people *do* that? Smile on demand and have it come out looking natural? I always end up looking like I've just tasted my own piss. Actually, no - I always end up looking like I've tasted somebody else's piss. Smiling to order just isn't right. There's something wrong with people who can do it and they're not to be trusted.

Funny thing about this topic is that it's largely the same as the first couple of pages of the photos thread that's floating around here, with people saying how much they hate images of themselves just before proving incapable of resisting the urge to show just how much they hate them by letting 5,000 strangers have a look.

Ottoline> I think I asked the same question in that thread and got largely the same reply that you've given yourself - that it's a mirror thing, that you're so used to seeing yourself back-to-front that when you're confronted with the truth it's a moment of sheer horror.

00:35 / 16.11.04

I always end up looking like I've just tasted my own piss. Actually, no - I always end up looking like I've tasted somebody else's piss.

Zellweger Syndrome. The best photographers avoid it by taking photos on the move rather than having one pose a la shark-eyed piss-tasting serial killer.

Believe me, I have no intention of posting my likeness here, 5000 (more-or-less) reassuring strangers or no.

01:27 / 16.11.04

I'm also not a fan of appearing in photographs. Part of that is presumably something to do with almost always being pissed when somebody gets a camera out, but still, I suppose my usual reaction when I see a picture of myself is along the lines of ' Christ... I don't look like that do I ? ' There seems to be a disparity between the ( ok, just about, ) reflection in the bathroom mirror, and the strange, silly git that seems to show up on film. So I wonder if some people aren't just naturally unphotogenic, or whether, on the other hand, it's down to a very mild version of much the same thing that afflicts the sufferer of anorexia, say, whereby you'd look at your reflection and see yourself as better-looking than you actually are, as opposed to ( and apologies for being flippant here, ) heavier. Certainly, I remember seeing a documentary a few years ago on the subject of bulimia, where a girl who was down to about six and a half stone was asked to describe how she looked in the mirror, and simply said ' fat. ' And she was otherwise perfectly lucid, articulate and so on, just apparently prone to hallucinating, really, when she looked at her reflection. I wondered at the time if that wasn't an extreme form of something that's fairly widespread.

06:44 / 16.11.04

I just tell myself that I work better in 3D, and 2D doesn't do me justice.
I have a classic Scottish face with no obvious cheekbones, and I think angular faces work better in photos.
Oddly, the photos that I do like are the ones that Loomis finds 'scary'. The ones he chooses to put in frames always surprise me.

09:23 / 16.11.04

I look better in 5D. Xoc's always admiring my pseudopods.

15:22 / 16.11.04

Ganesh is a Lovecraftian beast. Who knew...

I have read that the reason no one likes their photos is because we're all accustomed to mirror images, which are reversed, so when we see ourselves from the outside perspective it just looks weird. Same reason your voice sounds funny on tape - you're used to hearing your own voice resonating through your skull bones, rather than traveling through air, so it sounds flat and strange when you hear it that way.

I'm always disappointed with photos unless I'm wearing something weird. If I'm in normal, everyday clothes I always hate them, but if I'm in, say, a Halloween costume or a bridesmaid's dress, there's a better chance that I'll like it. I have no idea why.

Ex

15:56 / 16.11.04

I think we also expect too much from photographs. Being inside oneself you know you're complex, multidimensional, profound, fascinating; then someone whips out an album from Fred's stag bash and you're just a mottled flat-faced fish-looking blighter, amongst a shoal of such. It's the huge gap between your complex internal reality and the bland image. You want every shot to be an insightful portrait of your sensitive soul.

That, or you expect photography to render your husk shiny and glamorous.

I like some pictures of me - particularly odd ones, extreme close-ups and (like Sekhmet) fancy dress. Shots of my fake beard continue to fill me with glee. But usually my whole face is bleached out by the flash, leaving only a pair of sparkling eyes (drooping like Rushdie before the corrective surgery).

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

16:29 / 16.11.04

I like pictures of me from a few years back, when I used to wear tons of make-up and had a penchant for rubber. Largely because they don't look like me (I actually look fairly good in some) but mostly because they make me realise just how much God must love me if nobody gave me a serious kicking for walking around like that...

22:19 / 16.11.04

Oddly enough, I enjoy having my picture taken... I highly doubt I'm photogenic or anything, but I think I generally turn out well in photos... Maybe it's just a sign of a lack of care in what I look like.

22:37 / 16.11.04

I enjoy having my photo taken only when I wear the kilt. For some reason my normally brown (and rapidly thinning) hair goes red.

Lilly Nowhere Late

06:01 / 17.11.04

I think pictures are uncomfortable to look at because one sees one's face as if looking from someone else's perspective. It's still and flat. We never see ourselves like that because obviously one cannot see one's face from one's face.
With mirrors, the image we choose is rarely still. I notice this with clients; they almost never sit totally still and just look. The constantly have some movement, some animation happening, even if it is ever so slight. Some clients move so much and so continually that I have to turn them away from the mirror a bit so they will sit still.
I hate photos of me. There are only a few that I can bare to see at all. However, I work about 70 hours a week in front of and surounded by mirrors which I don't even notice.

Stoatie: I just want to remind you that I have some magnificent photos of you being "heroin chic modeling boy" which I cannot place here because, A. I don't know how. B. I don't think you'd be too happy with me if I did. Saved you are by technological failings and undying friendship!

I once worked with a photographer(fashion) who set up a three way mirror on casters with strategic lens holes so that he could put the most shy young models in front of the mirror and they would see much less of the camera. They basically posed for their own reflection, much like we all do(we all do do this don't we?)in the bathroom mirror most days. The effect was astounding in terms of producing some absolutely gorgeous images.
Try looking at yourself in the mirror without moving for 60 seconds or so. I'm not going to do this, but you can report your findings.

09:49 / 17.11.04

It's important to remember that we are contsantly surrounded by images that have been staged, airbrushed and carefully selected. 99.9% of photos that we see are the very best of many photos of attractive people taken by professionals. So when you see a normal photo it will always jar, even if it's okay.

I don't really have an opinion one way or another about photos. I tend to come out fine in them since I am able to smile on cue in a believable manner.

13:23 / 17.11.04

As a teenager I used to tie a jumper around my waist to cover up my "fat arse' but I swear, if I had the body now that I had then I would run up and down the street in hot pants. Lots.

So true! I too successfully avoided being photographed during my teen years, and now I regret it. I may have been awkward, but damn, I'll never have that body again. When I have seen photos that survived my cameraphobia, I looked shy (unless I was caught candid) but much, much cuter than I would have imagined! I was completely paranoid about my smile, most of all, since I have prominent canines and refused braces. But somehow growing older has made me realize they're not nearly as freakish, or even noticeable, as I always believed.

I still hate how I look in most photographs, but I cheerfully pose for them because I don't care as much anymore. After all, they're not being sold on the Internet, they're just getting tucked away in my friends' closets to be dragged out twenty years later in a cleaning frenzy.

18:48 / 17.11.04

For me it's not so much the mirror thing. I use mirrors to put in my contact lenses and brush my teeth, and a quick check in the morning to make sure I haven't forgotten to wear anything critical. I'm not looking at my face so much as I'm looking at my clothes, my teeth, my contact lens. Sometimes if I'm putting on makeup, yes, but that's unusual.

It's more a self-defense mechanism. I like to pick apart every flaw, lest somebody should come along and point out a horrible flap of skin or something gaping that I hadn't noticed, thus puncturing a fantasy I'd had about myself. You really cannot find a photo of me that I don't find depressing and abnormal if I make an effort to be what I think of as objective. I like photos of myself only when I give in to subjectivity, and look at pictures not see whether I look attractive, but whether I look happy, like I'm having fun. This is a good lesson in how slippery the mind is generally.