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Colin Powell- Should He Stay or Should He Go Now?

Sean the frumious Bandersnatch

10:13 / 11.11.04

"I serve at the pleasure of the president."

So now that Bush has a new minority (Gonzoles) in office, does he still need Colin Powell? Should he leave, or should he stay and work against the Bush administration?

Boston Globe

MSNBC

CNN/Time

As it stands, he's been pretty ineffective in working against GW. What do you think?

13:45 / 12.11.04

Powell strikes me as an asshole (remember the Iraqi chemical weapons mobile trucks presentation?)

But deep down, I think he has more of a conscience than Bush or Cheney or even Rice, all of whom I consider to be not only corrupt but for all intents and purposes plain evil. I will be sorry to see him go as whilst pretty ineffectual....he at least had some input and if he had flexed his muscles, I am sure he could have made things uncomfortable for Bush.
This new guy strikes me as a nasty piece of work. Haven't heard much about him but what I have read, I haven't liked

I will actually be sorry if Powell does go or is pushed aside

13:47 / 12.11.04

just thinking

maybe Powell will want to go, as in the U.S. his vote mightn't be counted anyway

ONLY NICE THINGS

14:54 / 12.11.04

OK... first up, I'm really not sure that describing Colin Powell as an "Uncle Tom" is particularly useful. What does that mean? That he's black? We already know that. That he's black and has somehow "sold out" by working in the Bush administration? Does that make Rumsfeld a Benedict Arnold or Condoleeza Rice a Coco Chanel? It's an unhelpful and unnecessary piece of terminology.

Moving on... I don't think it works quite in terms either of "working against" or "flexing muscles" - remember that Powell is a public servant. As Secretary of State, his job is not to frustrate the decisions of the Executive Branch. If I were him, I would suspect that I had been so marginalised that I could no longer make a meaningful contribution either to the people of the US or the conduct of the Executive Branch, and thus resign. However, there's a balnce there - we want Bush to put left-leaners in the cabinet to show his cmmitment to unity, but do we then insist when they get there that they attempt to work against the President from the inside? If so, where's the incentive?

I think Powell can reasonably demand that his role as Secretary of State be given due recognition, and by extension that Bush does not turn his back on Afghanistan, on the Middle East peace process, on the battle against AIDS - on the things the Secretary of State is meant to be appointed to deal with. If he can't get that, and I suspect that even if he gets the promise he won't get the effect, then he might be best served by resigning and _then_, as a private citizen, criticising the Bush White House, especially as his logical successor, the deputy S of S, would be likely to walk as well...

Also, Rummy may be about to go. If that happens, Powell may feel he is better placed to moderate America's foreign affairs...

19:39 / 12.11.04

Correct me if I'm wrong, but werent there rumours/media accounts of Powell resigning his post should G.W. garner a second term? I remember in the early run up to the Iraq war, Powell stating that he'd step down, citing family as a motivation. I can't find any of them now, so I'm hoping I didn't just dream this up two years ago.

Sean the frumious Bandersnatch

23:08 / 12.11.04

Haus- You're right. I realised after i posted that a lot of people could find "Uncle Tom" offensive, and I didn't mean to be racist. "Uncle Tom" (yes, okay...it is named after a slave who lives in the master's house) just means someone who is in a position of power for show, which is what Colin Powell seems to be sometimes.

solid state- yes, there haave been rumors, but Powell has been very careful not to say anything definant yet.

ONLY NICE THINGS

09:10 / 14.11.04

"Uncle Tom" (yes, okay...it is named after a slave who lives in the master's house) just means someone who is in a position of power for show

Uncle Tom (n) A black man considered to be servile, cringing etc. (OED)

Uncle Tom (n) A Black person who is regarded as being humiliatingly subservient or deferential to white people. (American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language)

Which is to say, no it doesn't. It's a term with a primarily racial component which you were applying, consciously or unconsciously, to Colin Powell in a way that I very much suspect you would not have to, say, Tom Ridge. Just for future reference, I'd probably avoid the term in general and especially if you're not sure what it means.

Sean the frumious Bandersnatch

12:54 / 14.11.04

okay, sincere apologies. I don't want to get in an argument over this... If any moderator wants to change the summary to something less controversial, please do so.

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:33 / 14.11.04

No worries.

Back to Powell himself. What do people want him to do? Battle on as a left-wingish bridge-builder (comparatively) in a so far hostile administration? Depart the scene with dignity? Resign, then go in swinging on the Bush administration? To be honest,. if he was going to do the latter, it woudl have been better to have done it a month or so ago, whereas now it woudl have almost no effect...

21:29 / 14.11.04

I guess its all about what Powell is able to accomplish. In effect how little could you achieve as secretary of state before what you are doing is no longer worth while. I have a feeling that Powell has managed to achieve a number of small things behind the scenes that would not have happened without him...If that remains the case I would suggest it would be difficult to justify leaving the post. Of course all this speculation is moot if Bush now decides to dump Powell out of the cabinet...

21:59 / 14.11.04

What do people want him to do? Battle on as a left-wingish bridge-builder (comparatively) in a so far hostile administration? Depart the scene with dignity?

In a way, I want him to stay and battle on. On the other hand, if one of his primary roles in the Administration was to lend credibility to Bush policies, I don't really think Bush's policies deserve the gloss of credibility Powell lends. Does Powell still have that kind of credibility after his infamous UN presentation? If he doesn't, has he become useless to Bush's agenda?

12:46 / 15.11.04

it's a moot point now - he's gone...

12:50 / 15.11.04

details here...

13:19 / 15.11.04

Moot or not it is a sad day when Colin "rogue nation" Powell gets branded as a liberal.

I believe the label is moderate libertarian.