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Some Photo-graffy for the Likes of Ye'! [PICS.... lots of them]

 
 
TeN
23:08 / 09.11.04
These were taken for a film contest entry, which won me $500. Some of these are outtakes, some made it into the final cut. I'm especially proud of these.

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These next ones are from a project I did for my video editing class. We were supposed to "express who we were through a montage of still images that we edited in Photoshop." Fuck that, I did a bunch of stuff I thought was cool. I wound up with the highest grade in the class and my teacher started recomending that I show my portfolio to colleges and asking me for photography/cinematography advice. The moral of the story is - do what you want, not what you're told... if you do it well enough, you'll get alot more respect. Anyway, here are some of the original, unedited photos.

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These next two weren't taken by me, but are in fact pictures of me. But they turned out really cool, so I figured I'd post them anyway. These are from the same school project as the ones above.

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critiques would be appreciated
 
 
TeN
23:11 / 09.11.04
Oh, and if you want to see some of the edited images from that project, or the final video, I might post them later... provided I have enough webspace.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
09:07 / 12.11.04
Most of them don't seem to be working at the mo...
 
 
Smoothly
12:58 / 12.11.04
I'm sorry but I just don't get these. I mean, they look like you've pointed a cheap camera at, well, pretty much anything in your house and pressed the button. I can't see anything interesting (or particularly considered) about the composition, some of them aren't even in focus and there's little that I can identify as either art or craft. No interesting effects have been achieved, as far as I can tell. I'd be amazed if anyone thought them beautiful.

I don't mean to put you down - and since you've already been getting such great reviews, I trust my comments won't be discouraging in any way. But, bleh!
I know this isn't much of a *critique* and I suppose what I'm saying is I'm mystified. Uncomprehending.
Are they supposed to look like pictures taken for insurance purposes? Are they about the aesthetic bankruptcy of our environments? Is this, perhaps, all a Big Joke?
 
 
TeN
18:38 / 12.11.04
Our Lady - sorry about that, they should be working now

Smoothly - I would appreciate it if you gave a critique rather than an insult. Telling me that it sucks doesn't help me improve. Maybe you're right, maybe it does suck (I don't believe that, but I'd be willing to listen to your argument)... but unless I know why, then it doesn't really do me any good, does it? As for the subject matter: if you read the description above the photographs, read (or at the very least, skimmed) the linked thread, and watched the film that they were taken for, then perhaps that would make more sense. But even if they weren't meant to be narrative or cohesive, why does that make my choice of subject matter any less appealing? There are thousands of paintings of bowls of fruit hanging in museums all over the world, and they're all valued at thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, even millions of dollars. This is fruit we're talking about here! Is fruit a particularly interesting subject matter? Not really. But it has potential... it has just as much potential as any other subject in the world. My photographs are also still lifes. Would you like me to photograph explosions or pretty sunsets? To me, that would be boring. It's been done so many times, and it's extinguished virtually all of it's possibilities. I think that still life is often times ignored in photography. People tend to go for the big things, the exciting things, and miss the small details. Look at the second photograph. You see the eraser pieces left by the eraser? And how that one corner of the eraser is rubbed off? It's so simple, and we probably see it everyday, yet how many times do you actually stop and look at that? Probably never. Now look at that photograph, isn't it beautiful? Apparently you don't think so, but I do. Oh, and about the focus - all of the focus here is intentional. If something is out of focus, it's because I wanted it out of focus (there are a few exceptions here, such as the second tweezer picture, which should have been focused slightly more on the tweezer). I'm not photographing tourists here... it's not a law that I focus exactly on the subject matter. In fact, I find that focusing directly on the subject matter creates a boring, flat image, and I don't do it often (the very last photo does this, and as I said, I didn't take that one). You complain the the composition isn't interesting enough... look at the 6th photograph, and look at the composition there. The edge of the sewing kit divides the photograph in half - most of the subject matter above it, and simply the needle and thread below it. That's not interesting composition? Could you give me an example of "interesting composition?" Because I can't quite see what it is you're complaining about. The only thing I could see as a valid complaint you failed to even mention, and that is the lighting on the second set of photographs. The reason for this is that they were taken at night, using yellow flourescent bulbs, and so they have a yellow tint to them. I think that on some of the photographs (specifically the souvenires and the keyboard), however, benefit from this traditionally "bad" lighting. Lastly, I would like to ask what experience you have in photography, professional or otherwise. I admit, I don't have any proffessional experience, but I have taken courses in photography and cinematography/filmmaking, and both filmmaking and photography have been hobbies of mine for several years. Were you a professional photographer, I would take your "criticism" more seriously, and if you were an amateur photographer, I'd like to see some of your work, to be able to judge whether or not your advice was worth listening to.
 
 
reFLUX
20:01 / 12.11.04
i don't like them. they're like stuff you start off with to test the camera. why would you want people to see them? i mean, a picture of your CD collection, i did that, but i didn't show it to anybody. headbanging? are you taking the piss?
 
 
---
23:11 / 12.11.04
I love the first one from the second set. I looked at it for a while and I realized that the figure to the right, (is it looking through a camera itself? A film camera?) was one thing that made me like the picture a lot more. I like the dolls in the background too and the way the light comes in from the right. Thinking about this again now, I think the Russian dolls got my attention first.....it's really cool because it's like the self and the different layers of the self with each doll.

The ghetto blaster one is good too, because it reminds me of what I see a lot myself when I'm sat on my bed with my headphones on and ghetto blaster right in front of me. It's something that I can relate to a lot.

Ha! AND the picture of yourself in the mirror too, I just remembered, I like it because of the flash effect from the camera, the way the camera has caught it in the picture, and probably the way that the light and dark seem to be balanced together. (I wonder how much the mirror added to that flash effect?) Just checked again, and the blue and almost gold of the background are good together aswell.

The others didn't catch my attention as much as those three, actually for some reason I seemed to like the first two, maybe because of the sharpness of the pictures, but yeah, the Russain doll one is my fave, it's really nice. What's the thing on the right from anyway with the camera? I'm sure I've seen it before.
 
 
TeN
03:21 / 13.11.04
I'm glad you like them. That thing on the right is a souvenire I bought in Mexico. It's a statue of a skeleton, from the Mexican Day of the Dead Celebration, and yes, that is a camera it is holding (although I never could figure out why it has five yellow prongs sticking out of the front). It was made by the same artist that did the box on the left (also Day of the Dead skeletons, this time in a rock band). I really love the design of these things, and so I bought one when I first went there, and again on my second trip. If/When I go again, I want to buy another, start up a little collection.
 
 
Smoothly
14:06 / 13.11.04
Hi TeN. Yeah, I apologise. Reading my post back I do come off as a massive prick about it. My only defence is that I was monumentally hungover yesterday and it clearly fucked with my self-editing faculty. I shouldn't have posted it - I never would have done under normal circumastances - and I'm sorry.

Saying that, I do stand by it. And since you went to the trouble to call me on what I said, and seem game enough, I'll answer you questions.

There are thousands of paintings of bowls of fruit hanging in museums all over the world, and they're all valued at thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, even millions of dollars.

...Even zillions of dollars! Don't say this sort of thing; you sound like a moron.
Of course the subject of a painting doesn't determine its value. Who would think it did. Why do you think *I* think it did?


You see the eraser pieces left by the eraser? And how that one corner of the eraser is rubbed off? It's so simple, and we probably see it everyday, yet how many times do you actually stop and look at that? Probably never.

No, you're right. You've opened our minds to a special kind of beauty in the details of everyday life. You're a visionary. You clearly see with an uncommon capacity for sensitivity and insight and I thank you on behalf of all of us for showing us that there's more to the aesthetic landscape than sunsets and explosions. I feel like a fool, but now my eyes are open.


Oh, and about the focus - all of the focus here is intentional. If something is out of focus, it's because I wanted it out of focus

Fine. Good. Why did you focus on the wallpaper in this one?


Tell me more about that one in general. I'm intrigued.

I was genuinely mystified when I wrote that first post, and I sincerely didn't know what kind of pictures they were supposed to be. Now I know that you compare it to gallery art, I'm simply incredulous.
You know, your teachers - and, it seems, Frosty - should go to a website called Ebay. You'll cream yourselves.
Look:



Could you give me an example of "interesting composition?" Because I can't quite see what it is you're complaining about.

There are other threads in the Creation, and elsewhere, in which ameteur photographers have posted their photographs. Just take a trip over to the blogs of some barbelith posters and I'm pretty confident you can take it on faith that I'd cite most all of them in comparison. Honestly.


Lastly, I would like to ask what experience you have in photography, professional or otherwise.

I'm not a professional photographer. I'm not an amateur photographer because that would suggest that I'm some kind of photographer. I have a camera and I know how to point it at things and take pictures of them. So, frankly, that makes this a peer review.


Were you a professional photographer, I would take your "criticism" more seriously, and if you were an amateur photographer, I'd like to see some of your work, to be able to judge whether or not your advice was worth listening to.

Would you? Why?


Perhaps, again, this comes over as unhelpful. I think you should possibly continue in your studies, but maybe at a different school. If you're your teachers' teacher then *alarm bells*


I'm sorry if this is a bit harsh. You're a grown-up and you can tell me to fuck off if you want to. It's no less of a critique than anyone else has offered so far, and maybe it will serve to galvanize the yaysayers.
 
 
---
16:57 / 13.11.04
You know, your teachers - and, it seems, Frosty - should go to a website called Ebay. You'll cream yourselves.

?

I didn't compare it to gallery art in the first place though, I just liked a few of the pictures, and I still think the Russian Doll/Figure picture rocks.

Thanks for the info on the figure anyway TeN, I'll look some of that up on the net.
 
 
TeN
19:16 / 13.11.04
Smoothly, if you're going to apologize, apologize. If you still think they suck, then fine, that's your opinion and you have your right to it (I would appreciate an actual critique, but that's an entirely different issue). But it really makes you look bad when even after apologizing for a nasty post, you go on to make yet another nasty post, insulting not only me, but anyone who happens to like my photographs. I think my response wasn't nearly as nasty as either of your posts, but it was uncalled for, and I realize now that I should have just ignored your comments and accepted your opinion rather than try to think of some witty reply. But you're right, we're both adults here, and this is stupid. So let's just end it now and leave this thread to it's original purpose - critiquing my photographs.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
16:38 / 14.11.04
I like the one of the typewriter keys: I think it's well-composed and interesting because (as you say somewhere above) it's a common object we rarely look at up close.

The one after that, though, looks rather like you're naked from the waist down, although I'm guessing it's just light coloured trousers.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:16 / 15.11.04
So let's just end it now and leave this thread to it's original purpose - critiquing my photographs.

Well, he did critique your photographs. He said that he found the subject matter uninspiring, and not treated in a novel or interesting fashion, the quality of the pictures poor and certain technical aspects, such as the focus, lacking. I can understand somebody wishing he had been more polite in the way he said it, but honestly? Deciding that you are not going to listen to anybody whose criticism is not favorable unless they are a professional photographer or an amateur with a body of work you like is going to make you look really, really silly. Which, it is worth saying, it has.
 
 
Olulabelle
21:04 / 26.11.04
Jesus.

The more I read lately on Barbelith the more it makes me want to make me hit people.

There's critiquing and then there's basically being horribly nasty in a wordy and snooty fashion. TeN is right, there is nothing worse than someone posting something pretty mean, apologising and then saying something even meaner.

And FWIW I hear where you're coming from TeN when you say that paintings of bowls of fruit are not a particularly interesting subject matter. The point is, it's not the subject matter that matters, it's the treatment of it.

Personally, I really like pictures 3,4 and 5 and I like them completely out of context, without knowing the reason they were taken. I clicked on the thread and then my screen was filled with glorious colour. The vibrancy of the red in 3 and 4 is beautiful. I looked at those three pictures and my first thought was, "wow, they're lovely." Too, those pictures are clever. Functional, everyday objects which you never notice are suddenly scrutinised in extreme close up. Assessed and considered. I have never studied a cotton reel at that level before. Or a needle. And I think the focus is measured, specific and extraordinarily crisp in the right places; you can see every thread on those reels.

I don't care about the context. I don't even want to know the context. For me, those three pictures stand up in their own right.

I am not sure how I feel about the rest of them, I think perhaps a couple of them are a little too near 'snapshots' for my liking, but even if I hated, hated them, well, there are ways, there are ways for fucks sake of giving people critical opinion.

Some of the comments in this thread are just vile.

I hate to read bitchy remarks which seem only designed to make other posters think how clever and funny and textually amusing, how ironic and witty a person is by making them. It makes me weary and it happens all too much on this site. It's the textual equivalent of posing by the window in a fashionable elite bar, disdainfully checking out the perceived hoi polloi who wander by.

*Sigh.*

I may not be a photographer, but I knew a man who was one and that man was my father. He was professional, brilliant and in permanent demand. I used to have to book a weekend months in advance to see him because he was always away in some lovely country being paid to take incredible pictures.

And you know what? He started taking pictures for a living when he was 45. 45. And you know how he started? He phoned up Charlie Waite who was his absolute hero and asked for proper criticism of his pictures. He said, "Should I give up my job and go for it, or not?" You see, that's what you do when you're starting out in a field. You ask for advice. That's what I thought this site, this section of the site was about.

And do you think Charlie Waite would ever have said said, "This does nothing for me?" No. He's a professional, intelligent man. If he thought my father's pictures were shit, (which he didn't) he would never have said something so crass. He thought some of my father's pictures were wonderful and he said so. He said he should give up work and go for it. But he also said he thought some needed work, gave him good advice on how to improve and generally behaved like an adult.

And so, luckily for my Father the advice he got was good and clear. It helped him move forward, learn and grow. It helped him become one of the top landscape photographers in the country.

What might have happened, do you think, if Charlie Waite had said:

No, you're right. You've opened our minds to a special kind of beauty in the details of everyday life. You're a visionary. You clearly see with an uncommon capacity for sensitivity and insight and I thank you on behalf of all of us for showing us that there's more to the aesthetic landscape than sunsets and explosions. I feel like a fool, but now my eyes are open.

Jesus. Fucking. Christ.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:32 / 27.11.04
Well, Olula, that rather depends. How about if Charlie Whaite had first said "I don't see what you're trying to do with these. I'm afraid I don't get them at all", and your father had replied:

Charlie - I would appreciate it if you gave a critique rather than an insult. Telling me that it sucks doesn't help me improve. Maybe you're right, maybe it does suck (I don't believe that, but I'd be willing to listen to your argument)... but unless I know why, then it doesn't really do me any good, does it? As for the subject matter: if you read the description above the photographs, read (or at the very least, skimmed) the linked thread, and watched the film that they were taken for, then perhaps that would make more sense. But even if they weren't meant to be narrative or cohesive, why does that make my choice of subject matter any less appealing? There are thousands of paintings of bowls of fruit hanging in museums all over the world, and they're all valued at thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, even millions of dollars. This is fruit we're talking about here! Is fruit a particularly interesting subject matter? Not really. But it has potential... it has just as much potential as any other subject in the world. My photographs are also still lifes. Would you like me to photograph explosions or pretty sunsets? To me, that would be boring. It's been done so many times, and it's extinguished virtually all of it's possibilities. I think that still life is often times ignored in photography. People tend to go for the big things, the exciting things, and miss the small details. Look at the second photograph. You see the eraser pieces left by the eraser? And how that one corner of the eraser is rubbed off? It's so simple, and we probably see it everyday, yet how many times do you actually stop and look at that? Probably never. Now look at that photograph, isn't it beautiful? Apparently you don't think so, but I do. Oh, and about the focus - all of the focus here is intentional. If something is out of focus, it's because I wanted it out of focus (there are a few exceptions here, such as the second tweezer picture, which should have been focused slightly more on the tweezer). I'm not photographing tourists here... it's not a law that I focus exactly on the subject matter. In fact, I find that focusing directly on the subject matter creates a boring, flat image, and I don't do it often (the very last photo does this, and as I said, I didn't take that one). You complain the the composition isn't interesting enough... look at the 6th photograph, and look at the composition there. The edge of the sewing kit divides the photograph in half - most of the subject matter above it, and simply the needle and thread below it. That's not interesting composition? Could you give me an example of "interesting composition?" Because I can't quite see what it is you're complaining about. The only thing I could see as a valid complaint you failed to even mention, and that is the lighting on the second set of photographs. The reason for this is that they were taken at night, using yellow flourescent bulbs, and so they have a yellow tint to them. I think that on some of the photographs (specifically the souvenires and the keyboard), however, benefit from this traditionally "bad" lighting. Lastly, I would like to ask what experience you have in photography, professional or otherwise. I admit, I don't have any proffessional experience, but I have taken courses in photography and cinematography/filmmaking, and both filmmaking and photography have been hobbies of mine for several years. Were you a professional photographer, I would take your "criticism" more seriously, and if you were an amateur photographer, I'd like to see some of your work, to be able to judge whether or not your advice was worth listening to.

We come across this a lot when people post their novels here, and when people say things like "I don't think the character of Bob is consistent" or "I don't understand why Steve would suddenly do that", the writer *tells us what we have failed to understand*, and *how we should have read it*. That is, he tells us, the readers, why he, the writer, is right and we are wrong. He may, further, demand to know whether the critic is a professional writer, because unles s he or she is their comments have no value. At which point, frankly, there is no point whatsoever in trying to interact in a meaningful fashion with the writer, unless he is prepared to travel around the country explaining to everybody who ever reads him why he, the writer, did that and why the reader should accept it.

TeN told Smoothly that there was only one possible valid complaint about his pictures, which was that in some of them the lighting was off, and that therefore his critique, unless it was limited to "in some of them the lighting was off", was meaningless, and further that any negative comments he received were going to be rejected unless the person giving them could demonstrate a background in photography. You may have noticed that Jack Frost was not asked what his photographic credentials were before his positive comments were accepted, nor Whisky P.

Smoothly apologised for not being productive enough in his opening comments, but I cannot blame him for deciding that no critique he offered would be accepted by TeN unless it were glowingly positive. If you are not ready to accept any comment about your work that is not gushing approval, don't offer it for critique.
 
 
Smoothly
14:23 / 27.11.04
Functional, everyday objects which you never notice are suddenly scrutinised in extreme close up. Assessed and considered. I have never studied a cotton reel at that level before. Or a needle.

Seriously? But they're *life size*.


Maybe I should stay out of this thread, but I wouldn't expect anyone else to in the circumstances so, for what it's worth...
I'm sorry if you want to hit me, but while I might have been impolite I won't be accused of being fashionable. I wasn't trying to curry favour with anyone - what a peculiar way to do it if I was. The pictures had been there for a couple of days without comment and so I (perhaps rashly) put voice to my reaction.

TeN is right, there is nothing worse than someone posting something pretty mean, apologising and then saying something even meaner.

Lucky you. I can think of things *loads* worse than that.
I apologised for posting hungover and not offering a point by point critique, and if TeN hadn't come back to tell me about bowls of fruit and how I should broaden my aesthetic horizons beyond sunets and explosions, I wouldn't have replied again. But he was literally asking for it, wasn't he? And he seemed pretty robust; I didn't recognise a need to handle him like a delicate little dandilion. I admitted fault where I saw it, and stood up for the rest. If he can't handle that then I wish him luck in the generous and forgiving world of professional photography.

Say what you like about my manner but 'It's the textual equivalent of posing by the window in a fashionable elite bar, disdainfully checking out the perceived hoi polloi who wander by' is out of line given that it wasn't *me* doubting anyone's *credentials*.
 
 
TeN
02:45 / 03.12.04
Olulabelle - Thank you for the comments. I greatly appreciate them, as do I your criticism of Smoothly's attitude. I do disagree with you about one thing though - I think Barbelith is very fortunet to have the general attitude it does. Although some posters only try to impress people with their wit and sarcasm, we have it much better compared to many other forums. By the way, your father's photographs are wonderful. I especially like this one, it has such a nice feel to it.

Tannhauser - You are absolutely correct. I shouldn't have responded to Smoothly's comments in the way that I did. I wasn't thinking. In a fit of anger, I rushed into posting a reply to Smoothly, and the foolish things I said in my post reflect that. I understand that it is unproffessional and counterproductive for an artist to explain his work to someone who dislikes it, as it is equally pointless for that artist to reject all criticism that he himself doesn't immediatly see. That post was uncalled for, and re-reading it now, I can't imagine what would have compelled me to write it.

Smoothly - There is no reason for you to continue this argument. I offered a chance to agree to disagree, and yet you still criticise any one who offers any praise of my photographs. I respect that you dislike them, and I respect your criticisms of them. I really despise the direction this thread is headed in (I wanted a critique of my photos, and what I've wound up with is a heated argument over negative comments and an artist's response to them). I admit, I'm partially to blame for the thread rot, but much of it has to do with your negative response to every criticism made of you (sort of ironic, isn't it?). I'd like this bickering to stop, and that goes not just for you Smoothly, but for everyone. If you're not going to critique my photographs (feel free to tell me more reason why you don't like them, just so long as you do it maturely), I'd prefer if you stayed out of the thread. Let's let bygones be bygones, k?
 
 
wembley can change in 28 days
06:43 / 03.12.04
TeN - I think these are a pretty good start. Looking at things in a different way is a valuable skill to develop, and I think you've embarked on that. I also think there's a lot farther to go.

The composition of the tweezer on the white windowsill is, for me, the most interesting. I think this has to do with the sharp colours and diagonal lines. Many of the others feel quite flat to me. And yes, I know that there is variable focus in many of them and that they are meant to highlight the 3D-ness of an object, but there's something about the images where that doesn't come through so strongly. I have the same thing with a lot of my photographs, and I don't have an answer as to how to fix it, but I suspect it takes a lot of practice and a bit more knowledge of your lens.

I would check out this particular shot on sam's daily dose of imagery. The nice thing that he does is tell you what equipment he uses and how he makes the shots. This one is done by taking the lens off, holding it up to the camera backwards, very tightly so that no extra light sneaks in, and with a very steady hand taking the shot. I've tried this myself and the results are almost always interesting, even if I usually don't get anything quite as sharp as I'd hoped.
 
 
haus of fraser
17:00 / 03.12.04
Ten, I know that people have jumped on you a little bit for reacting to a critique and i'll try and be fair:

I also quite like the Tweezers on the windowsill (sp!) with grass in soft focus and the 5th shot of the cotton reels has a nice balance between colour and texture. The mexican day of the dead stuff also had a nice composition- but the lighting isn't great - maybe a softer light source would've helped you out a bit here as i can see a reflection of the light in the right hand side doll. Try using a chimera or bouncing the light back off a reflector.

The second set of pics: the headbanging shot, the pile of cd's the flash photos etc don't do the rest of your work (stuff shot for the film) justice. They do look like you fucking around/ experimenting/ using up a film whatever- by displaying them alongside your other work it makes you look like you can't distinguish yourself what is and isn't good in your own work. This in turn lets you down. On that note I personally hate using a flash especially when taking a still life- why not play with exposure and aperture a bit and ditch the flash (as i say the light reflections look cheap and lazy - these aren't pap pics they're structured composition pieces - don't let yourself down with short cuts!)

I looked at these pics having seen your film first in the TV, Films forum- then just saw this thread today and thought I'd take a look.

Its a brave thing to put your work up in a public space and ask for a crit especially as some people on the board will automatically compare your work to professional work- rather than that of a student - which i believe you are (?) (fuck that sounds patronizing - its not meant to!) I guess what i mean is show off the good shit but keep the sketch book at home. We all need to experiment and learn by our mistakes.

I work as a video editor and i'm trying desperately to become a director (i've signed with a good company but it don't pay the bills yet!). I sure as hell don't feel confident enough to put links to my work on Barbelith for fear of exactly the kind of critique you get . but hey maybe one day i'll stick something up.

When going through art college I swear i had Crits that made me want to murder people- i still find it uneasy when presenting work (especially if its something I like) but it does go with the territory I'm afraid- get used to it if this is a route you would like to pursue. I find angry critiques often fire me up with a fuck you i'll prove you wrong, you wait till you see the next thing i do. Use the critisism and build on it, then you'll have the fuckers eating out of your hands...
 
  
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