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quote:Originally posted by Brenden Simpson:
I had actually forgotten the name for some reason. Dabh. Anyway. I would stick with option three, but it doesn't seem entirely accurate in this case. May I choose a fourth option?
By all means. As a matter of fact, instead of vaguely alluding to it, why don’t you let us know what #4 is. You’re coming real close to accusing a member of the board of dishonest, inappropriate, and unethical action when you say things like “I refer to it as an accident, because the initial intentions of the tulpa's progenitor are thus far unknown and only when we popped the proverbial cork did we know what we were dealing with.”
If you’re trying to create controversy you should keep something in mind: This isn’t a discussion about theory or political stances and even though Wyrd isn’t using a real name this affects hir reputation. Although accusations like these don’t have the same legal weight behind it, when you make an accusation like that it’s tantamount to saying a writer is plagiarizing or that a doctor is guilty of malpractice. Especially for a shamanic practitioner whose job description is “serve the community.”
You’re effectively saying that Wyrd is serving personal interests over the interests of the community (Barbelith).
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I dumped in what I could at launch date, if that's what you mean. Not posting and not paying attention are different things, of course. I made some rather silly suggestions when the concept was first being tossed around in the original thread.
My question should have been “did you email Wyrd and subsequently receive the complete parameters of the servitor and the sigil?”
if you didn't then you really don't know what the hell you're talking about. If you did, then what part of it do you have a problem with?
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"We" didn't create it, which was my initial point. Wyrd created it, as he admitted in a previous post. We just powered it up and let 'er rip.
Of course, I could get into a lengthy debate about the creator/created paradox, but that will have to wait for another thread.
Here’s where semantics and an understanding of the process comes in. Despite both your and Wyrd's use of the word 'created' in my opinion we *did* create it. Bear with me as I recreate the series of events:
1) On the last incarnation of the board, somebody posted that maybe it would be a good idea to create a servitor to help out a member who was having a rough time.
2)A few people commented that may not be appropriate but that instead a servitor for the entire benefit and well being of Barbelith would be a better idea.
3) People bounced around ideas and asked if someone would be wiling to take the lead on the servitor project.
4) Wyrd solidified everyone’s ideas and volunteered to lead the design of the servitor, asking if anyone had a problem with that.
5) Everyone participating in the thread (at least those willing to actually post) gave the thumbs up to Wyrd and the direction the servitor design was going.
6) Enter the new board and the new thread here. Wyrd created the *design* of the servitor based upon the collective wishes of the members participating in the threads, including some of hir own. Wyrd requested that people email for the full design parameters and sigil which, to me, was the responsible way to go about the process.
7) Those who requested the info, received it. This document included the sigil as well as the full design parameters and functions of the servitor. It was at this point that each participant had the responsibility of deciding if they wanted to continue with the process. If not, to either bring up their concerns or to back out and not participate.
8) We collectively created the servitor. Although Wyrd did the *programming*, WE created and authorized the specs that went into that programming as well as had 'creative' input during the launch.
I state that *we* created the servitor because Dabh didn’t exist before that. It seems that as each person added their ritual that Dabh became more and more 'real'. The more WE interact with him, the more that process will continue. The nature of Dabh was clear during the ritual and equally as clear the times after that I’ve interacted with him. Servitors are very different than other types of spirit entities. Dabh was created by everyone who participated in the launch and each participant has helped shape and define him within the parameters of the design. That also seems to be part of the design parameters.
A design, drafted up by Wyrd, based upon the items of intent generated by the first Servitor thread. Wyrd didn’t create Dabh. Wyrd facilitated the design. Specifically because s/he was the only one willing to step up to the plate and do so.
If your doubts stem from whether or not we can trust Wyrd to tell us what really went into the creation of the sigil then I can’t help you there. All I know is I used resources that haven’t failed me in the past to verify that everything was on the level. Anyone who didn’t do the same should have either chosen to back out or to trust at the time.
In both this and Expressionless’ thread Wyrd has answered any questions and concerns in a complete and well thought out fashion. If you have a real charge against Wyrd’s honesty you should either make it or shut up.
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Yes, well, the term "tulpa" is in the vocabulary of our comrades-in-wills, so I use what I can. Last time I used a term which made sense to me, it skimmed over the heads of everyone around me. That may be a unique situation, granted, but I won't get into that here.
You’re the one who said “I have grown to prefer the term "tulpa" to "servitor," but that's partially thanks to my fascination with Eastern and American mystical traditions and growing boredom with European mystic traditions. It may also be because I'm a William S. Burroughs fan.”
I personally find servitors to be closer to the ‘thought forms’, ‘watchers’, and ‘guardians’ of western traditions than the Tulpas of eastern traditions which are closer to personal/communal angels, demons, and spirits.
I might call a spirit that was was created and fed off of someone's alchoholism for years and is now perpetuating that situation a Tulpa. A servitor consciously created and still in it's infant stages just doesn't have the same 'bite' or point of origin.
[ 05-07-2001: Message edited by: Lothar Tuppan ] |
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