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The Grudge

 
  

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e-n
10:33 / 08.11.04
The Sam Raimi produced re-make was out this weekend did anyone see it?
Any thoughts on The Grudge as a stand alone film or comparisons with the original Ju-on?
I saw Ju-on by chance back in March and it scared the bejeesus out of me.Knowing the story and set pieces for the re-make however didn't reduce their impact one bit. Over all this seemed like a tighter story (they ditched the school girls story altogether) and explained a little more background (the object of the "main" charatcers obsession wasan't seen in the original if I recall correctly)
Also that beginning was great.(Can't say more without spoiling for you)
Some of the effects weren't as discomforting as the original however, (in a similar was to The Rings Samara not being as scary as Ringu's Sadako), but this only really effects you if you haven't seen it.
If theres already a thread about this subject, my apologies, I couldn't find it.
 
 
Triplets
12:23 / 08.11.04
Spoilers throughout:

It scared the shit out of me. I've had approx. 2-3 sleepless nights since watching it. It doesn't help anything that my room has a vaguely Japanese wood cupboard unit that covers the entirety of one of my bedroom walls. Brr.

Liked it, was very nicely paced with no weird tangential mysticism bits - which seem to be quite common in the Japanese originals of these sorts of things. Like typical Japanese horror the sense of impending, unavoidable doom was there throughout. The idea that the ghosts aren't limited to the house and can track you down at work, at home, anywhere was really really creepy. So unlike Western horror where there's usually an out or a safety zone if you can escape the haunted house.

Each scare set-piece was nicely done. I think they were deliberately ordered to be a bit more horrible/intense than the last culiminating with that horrible, horrible 'crawling stair sequence' near the end. Uurrrrraaaaaaaaaaa indeed.

So, glad I saw it. Nyquil is glad I saw it too.

Oh, and did anyone else laugh when Bill Pullman killed himself at the beginning? Dancing Gingerbreadman popped into my head instantly.
 
 
e-n
10:36 / 09.11.04
The WHOLE CINEMA laughed when Bill upended himself when I saw it.
Your right about the tangents.There were a good few more in the original (which was try number three for the director anyway) which did leave me popping out for cups of teaa in between horiible deaths.
Loved the way the it ruined the concept of hiding in bed forever too.
Why did everyone open that damn closet so slowly, whip it open and stare eveil i the face dammit!
I can never go to Japan now.
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
17:02 / 09.11.04
It was kind of like a porno. No real plot or characters... it just jumped from scare scene to scare scene.

But my oh my, those scenes were bad. The kid outside the elevator was almost unbearable.

While my audience laughed outloud when Pullman jumped off the ledge, 3 members walked out during some of the really intense scenes.
 
 
ibis the being
14:11 / 06.02.05
Spoilers ? - I guess -

I was scared out of my mind throughout the movie and afterwards. Unfortunately that did not mean it didn't suck. It had, quite literally, The Worst Ending I've ever seen. The movie just stopped. There was no structural reason for it to end, nothing particularly intense or meaningful about the scene, no resolution of any sort, it was just another scary scene and then - roll credits. WTF?
 
 
Triplets
16:51 / 06.02.05
Well, it's said outright by the detective that once you come in contact with the house you've had it. You may avoid it but you're ultimately doomed.

I think the ending was an ill-thought idea because I got the feeling the director was taking the Western style resolution of the "it's all over" post-personal-apocalypse and suddenly throwing the rug out from under us with "aha, silly audience! she's fucked!".
 
 
Triplets
16:52 / 06.02.05
But, the question is: did you laugh at Bill Pullman taking the express elevator?
 
 
Billuccho!
22:48 / 06.02.05
Terrible, terrible movie. I remember them all saying that Gellar's character "wasn't like those other silly females in horror movies. No, she's a tough chica!" ...but she was *exactly* like every woman in every horror movie.

Didn't scare me. I laughed at it. In fact, I was cracking Bill Pullman jokes the whole time to keep myself from being bored to death (really, he showed up for two seconds and disappeared for an hour... every time someone saw something spooky I yelled "Bill Pullman!")
 
 
wembley can change in 28 days
08:20 / 07.02.05
The ending was a load of suckage, I agree with ibis on that one. And I guess all I'm posting to say is that even though there wasn't a plot (and a whole lot of weird acting, like Gellar following Bill Pullman (!) all over the house with this look on her face like "well! I'm not the main character here so obviously I'm safe, even though a corpse just fell out of the closet." etc) it scared the living daylights outta me. Even when I woke up this morning the first thing I thought of was that face, and then when my mp3 player on the way to work kicked in with Pizzicato Five's "It's a Beautiful Day," I got scared again.
 
 
D Terminator XXXIII
18:45 / 08.02.05
*So* safe.

I could see a lot of Dark Water and Ringu 2 in certain scenes, I don't understand why no one else did? The first 10 or 15 minutes where quite promising -- how sad that the movie never transgressed that promise...

What was the point? Scary ghost-mum and son scare any visitors, to eventually kill them? Because they had a wrongful death?

There was nothing one had never seen before - unless one is blissfully unaware of horror movies, and, perhaps, regard Bullock or Sandler as Oscar material.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
18:55 / 08.02.05
Oh god, just saw this a few days ago. Absolutely horrible. Considering I saw the original in the theater and was scared witless by it, this was just a crushing disappointment. I had hopes since Shimizu was at the helm after all. But alas, it was time and money I can't get back. I especially hated the exposition the detective gives Gellar towards them middle, as though to reiterate that English-speaking audiences are stupid. (Okay, so maybe the majority of them are.)

BTW, I hated the American version of Ringu, too.
 
 
D Terminator XXXIII
19:19 / 08.02.05
I found that easier to love -- weak-ending-when-compared-to-the-original regardless.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
21:00 / 09.02.05
Same here as many: original version did a lot of it better. THOSE EYES!
 
 
wembley can change in 28 days
11:29 / 10.02.05
I could see a lot of Dark Water and Ringu 2 in certain scenes, I don't understand why no one else did?

Ah, I didn't really consider that worth mentioning so much... it was pretty obvious homage, or semi-inside joke, or whatever you call it. Doesn't really matter when you're not dealing with High Art, right?

Rothko, given your comment, I think I will eschew the original for the present as for the last four nights every time I turn off the light I get images of those characters in my head.
 
 
Spaniel
12:15 / 10.02.05
Could anyone elaborate on what they didn't like about the remake? I only ask because a number of criticisms on this thread could equally be applied to the original, which I loved. For example, Ju-On had almost no plot, but to my mind it worked.

To be honest, I've been worrying that The Grudge would try and patch up the skeletal storyline.
 
 
Spaniel
12:45 / 10.02.05
I would go as far as to say that Ju-On's lack of plot contributes greatly to its success.
The characters (and the audience) are given nothing to solve, no way out. Instead they're faced with a relentless force that cannot be reasoned with, or made sense of, and it's coming, and it won't stop. Ever.
 
 
D Terminator XXXIII
15:57 / 15.02.05
The weakness exactly.

If someone died in a state of rage or terror and could thus become an avenging ghost - wouldn't the awful deaths these ghosts provide not create further ghosts? And where are all the other ghosts? Wouldn't they then be commonplace all over the world? Etc.

Early scene with Behr and Gellar at the cemetary suggested there would be some form of thematic link to what would later happen, instead, Behr's character goes actually nowehre but die, Gellar's is slightly more interesting than in Buffy: The Boring, Whiny Slayer series but not by much.

Etc.
 
 
Spaniel
08:58 / 16.02.05
I still haven't seen the remake, but I'd say you could argue - perhaps with less force - that the original suffered from the same "weakness".

Now, why the inverted commas? Well, the vengeful ghost is hardly a new concept. It's been around forever, and, frankly, the same complaint could apply to virtually all vengeful ghost stories. Now, that's not to say it isn't a valid complaint, in that I see how it could bother you, but I'd say the sub-genre is well enough established to make such concerns little more than minor irritants in the minds of many.

That's not to say I'll like the remake, however, just that I'm unlikely to have a problem with it on that basis - although I could be surprised.
 
 
e-n
10:56 / 16.02.05
Weakness? Whatever. I guess having seen what happened to Ring in the translation (HATED man-in-suit evil samara look) I was just pleased that I was jumping out of my seat throughout the film. Its a roller coaster and I review is as such.Note that since my inital post I haven't and probably won't see it again. Same with ju-on.
 
 
Spaniel
11:41 / 16.02.05
Yeah, but sometimes criticisms distract from the visceral experience, no?

I am, however, inclined to give horror films alot of leeway if the scares work.

As I've sad elsewhere, I'm quite strict in how I go about watching horror films. I get fed up with people telling me this film wasn't scary and that film made them laugh when they watched said films in packed cinemas full of popcorn muchers and rowdy teenagers. As far as I'm concerned, horror movies should be watched with the smallest audience possible - preferably an audience of one - in a dark room. Do that, and tell me Ringu isn't scary.
 
 
Shrug
17:35 / 20.02.05
I did that and Ringu isn't scary. Sometimes watching a horror
movie in a cinema can really increase the scares particularly if you bring someone really skitish to sit beside you and provide constant gasps of terror or grab your arm in that I scared shitless way. I thought The Grudge was pretty disturbing some of the scenes clearly had that surreal Ringu quality to them but I just think they did it better.
 
 
Spaniel
18:46 / 20.02.05
I did that and Ringu isn't scary.

Ah, I must've been mistaken. Thanks for sorting that out.
 
 
Shrug
19:45 / 20.02.05
No problem any time etc.
I think part of what made Ringu a massive anti-climax for me was obviously overwhelming hype and also a case of bad subtitling which sometimes left me squinting at white text on a white background and not looking at what was happening.
But The Grudge goes back to what I find is scary in horror films surreal imagery coupled with focusing on people's reaction to what is happening while relying less on cgi etc.
Story wasn't great though. And was that Ellen Burstyn as the old woman? in any case she ace.
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
07:08 / 22.02.05
The problem I had was that the "scares" were so obviously punctuated throughout the film. You knew five minutes before the fright that there was one coming.
Yes I know it's supposed to be a build up of suspense but it also gives you enough time to soldier yourself against the eventual scare. I like to be taken by suprise at least a few times, keep me guessing whether theres gonna be a scare at anytime without us realising.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
17:25 / 28.03.05
Absolutely loved it. Haven't seen the original. Saw Ringu thn the usa remake, thought the remake was very poor in comparison...must see Ju-On!

Reminded me of Suspirira and Dario Argento, just demented, full throttle, absurd horror...very little rhyme or reason (or plot), which is fantastic in my book, so long as the scares work, and they really worked...particularly the already mentioned lift with Toshio staring in on every floor...Bbbbbrrrrrrrrrrr!

The perfect date movie.

One glaring plot thingy that left me a little disatisfied (silly, all things considered, but there you go) - why was the ghost not killing the dementia-afflicted old woman? I know it was 'tormenting' her, but why not the grisly scared to death bizniz? Or maybe she was just too demented?
 
 
Withiel: DALI'S ROTTWEILER
17:58 / 28.03.05
I saw this in a well-lit room with my (extremely cynical) girlfriend, who doesn't really "do" films, so this may have ruined the atmosphere a little. Having said that, I laughed out loud at the first two deaths, especially the Monty Python-esque dragging-with-legs-kicking-into-the-attic bit, which is never a good thing with a horror film. However, the scene where the seemingly unrelated tangential character is dragged...somewhere as she's hiding under her bedclothes fucked me up good and proper - because of course the first place you hide when you hear a noise at night is now no longer safe. Also, the last scene was genuinely terrifying, because the timing seemed to be exactly that of a nightmare. I've not seen anything so frightening as that scene before, and it left me unwilling to be alone in a dark room for a week or too. Other than that, the lack of a plot did, indeed, add to the atmosphere, but some of the special effects seemed rather overdone (most notably the full reveal on the zombie thing on the stairs), and made the supposedly dramatic scenes mildly ridiculous.

Perhaps the ghost(s) were using the old woman as bait in order to lure carers into the house?
 
 
Spaniel
14:16 / 29.03.05
The problem I had was that the "scares" were so obviously punctuated throughout the film. You knew five minutes before the fright that there was one coming.

Very, very true and I can see how that could trouble you. I'm not very good at soldiering myself, however, and found the build-ups quite unbearable.

I'm glad others found the lack of rhyme and reason disturbing. Japanese horror often does away with plot and convention in favour of surreality, bizarre internal logic, and the unknown*. In Ringu, for example, the real horror comes from the late revelation that Sadako can't be put to rest, bargained with, or understood (empathised with, etc...). The film makes almost no attempt to explain the curse and the content of the video - and it's all the nastier for it.

*As does David Lynch. Another scary bastard
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
14:41 / 29.03.05
I also thought the relentless-ness of it was really effective. It just didn't let up...no early exposition, no rationalists poo-poo-ing the craziness (even the chief detective dude just shrugs and says "We're all fucked! You, me, all of us! It's a ghost, and you can't stop it!", which just doesn't happen in Western horror)...scare after scare after scare...really good. Very Suspiria, but with better pacing (Argento can be sloooooowwwwww)
 
 
Spaniel
14:46 / 29.03.05
I'm surprised so few people have commented on the relentless pacing. It really is very unusual and very extreme.

Suspiria is one of very few films to go a similar route.
 
 
Triplets
15:19 / 29.03.05
BTW, what was the horrible thumping noise during the Pullman flashback sequence? I... had my hands over my eyes at the time.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
16:28 / 29.03.05
SPOILERS as if you hadn't noticed already.

It



Was



The





Guy who killed his wife and kid and cat, hanged and a'swingin' in the breeze...in the room where you first see Toshio...bumpin' against the wall.


Got to just shiver and recall that scene where Pullman looks out the window for the source of the ghostly cat-howling, and in the background, blurred, you see Toshio's blackened mouth perfectly syncing with the unholy sound.

Amazing how simple shit is so much more scary than SFX. This film could easily have been made 40 years ago and not suffered a jot from lack of technology.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
16:32 / 29.03.05
BTW, Triplets, when you said 'Nyquil is glad I saw it too.', for some reason I thought Nyquil was a 'lith ficsuit, and the film got you two all snuggly.

Now I know it's a sedative. I feel you should know this.
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
19:54 / 29.03.05
Very, very true and I can see how that could trouble you. I'm not very good at soldiering myself, however, and found the build-ups quite unbearable.

It's not so much the actual movie that scares me, it's my boyfriend jumping out of his skin next to me that does it. If I know a good few minutes before he's likely to jolt then a major part of the shock is lost on me. I watch horror movies with him so that he enhances my enjoyment by being so damned jumpy.
 
 
Shrug
20:09 / 29.03.05
That sound the ghost makes is pretty uncomfortable too animalistic but obviously human, reminded me of a drain, very weird.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
09:15 / 30.03.05
Ooh, yeah, the ackackackackakcakck sound...
 
  

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