BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Why You Voted Republican

 
 
wembley can change in 28 days
08:12 / 08.11.04
The most interesting conversations I've had post-election, even with Americans, have been about the 59 million people I don't understand. As with Ganesh, the "angry isolationism" phase shifted off to something different. I wonder whether my Daily Show bubble has blinded me to certain ways of thinking. Every time a republican opens his or her mouth, it seems, absolute bullshit comes out. Am I just the same but different?

This thread is not about what you can do as a left-leaning liberal to overcome. I want to hear your reasons for voting republican. Put on your best meshback hat, your Tucker Carlson tie, or whatever you need to do, and give me your excellent reasons for voting for Bush.

If you don't beat 'em, join 'em. Then beat 'em.
 
 
Smoothly
09:08 / 08.11.04
I think you'll struggle to get many Barbeloids posting to this to explain why they voted Rupublican, but I think there are probably a number of obvious reasons why someone might:

If you believe we need to fight a proactive, aggressive and indefinite war against 'Terror', and believe Bush's 9/11 response is right on the money, you probably voted Republican.
If you're idealogically opposed to abortion or stem cell research, you probably voted Republican.
If you want to see the Constitution amended to prevent gay marriage, you probably voted Republican.
If you like guns and low taxes, you probably voted Republican.
If you think it's a mistake to replace the Commander In Chief during a war, you probably voted Republican.
If you want to see a neocon new world order, you probably voted Republican...

It's tempting to console yourself with the idea that people who voted for Bush did so blindly and without reason, but the truth is they just don't share your values.
 
 
wembley can change in 28 days
10:46 / 08.11.04
Smoothly, I know there aren't many Barbeloids who actually voted Republican. It's a mental exercise, trying to really understand what would make a thinking person vote Bush, because you can bet that not everyone who did could be stupid, and I also don't want to reduce it to neo-conism and abortion, although those are very relevant issues and probably the tipping points.

This, for me, really takes some thought, but I really, really do want to get some understanding.

For instance, if I were living in a rural area, I might feel more inclined to vote for Bush simply because he seems more like me. Kerry's a city slicker, and the inherent mistrust of urbanites would drop him some points from the get-go. However, that's not a rational argument either. Which is why I need help.
 
 
Smoothly
11:14 / 08.11.04
Yeah, I think I understand your motivation for this thread, and I share your bewilderment at why the majority of voting Americans wanted 4 more years of Bush. Like you I want to *understand* (I think I'd secretly like to be converted so that I'd find the status quo more agreeable). But I just don't know if there are answers that you (or I) would find satisfying. I don't know that it's something we could be made to understand, as if it were jet propulsion or differential calculus.

But take your 'one of us' vs. 'one of them' example. I'm not sure that this is as irrational as you suggest. Wanting our leaders to represent 'us' is, I reckon, a pretty common desire - and voters are bound to cleave to people they identify with. Bush was very good at presenting himself as a Man of the (American) People.

Hmm. Maybe I am misunderstanding you. If the question were reversed, and someone wanted to understand why a person might vote Democrat, what kind of things would you say?
 
 
SMS
13:42 / 08.11.04
[pretending I voted for Bush]Fighting the war on terror really isn't like conducting a criminal investigation. We may have been attacked by specific people, but the support for such attacks against the U.S. is much broader than those specific people. I don't think Kerry understands this, and I'm afraid he would respond to terrorist acts with a very limited counter-attack. His criticism of President Bush in the debates confirms this feeling with me. He said that the President has left most of our ports unprotected from attack. Perhaps he would have us put security guards at every potential target? That's impossible, of course. Every mall, every bus, every airplane, every bridge, every port, every hotel, every power plant, and every news organization is a potential target. We simply cannot win a war if we don't go on the offensive. Now, I don't know if it was wise to go into Iraq or not, and, frankly, neither does anyone else. The goal in Iraq, as it relates to the war on terrorism, is to transform the region by installing a democracy. It will take decades before we know if it has been successful. Mr. Bush believes in it, though, and Mr. Kerry does not. Yet Mr. Kerry voted for the war. That's not quite what he says. He says he voted to give the President the power to go to war, but apparently hoped he wouldn't use it. Frankly, this is bullshit. In 2002, I went to the polls knowing that a vote for a republican congressman was a vote to invade Iraq. I knew in 2002. Why didn't Kerry know what he was doing? I imagine he did, but that he sent our troops off to battle because he was scared of losing re-election, or because he had hopes of becoming President.

Now, when it comes to the size of government, Mr. Bush deserves to be fired, but, unfortunately, his replacement would be worse. Mr. Bush has put the Federal government in charge of educating the children, but Mr. Kerry would out it in charge of the nation's health. Don't get me wrong. I don't buy into the argument that Kerry is more liberal than Ted Kennedy. But he is more liberal than Mr. Bush. I don't like the economic policies of either, but I hate the idea of one more entitlement program, even if a republican congress is likely to vote it down.

There is one area on the economy where I do support Bush over Kerry, and that is on outsourcing. I think most economists will agree that outsourcing is not the monster that politicians would have you believe. Like new technology, it makes things difficult for the individuals who lose their jobs, but, in the long run, makes the economy more efficient and causes no systemic damage to jobs creation.

I'm not happy with the way the campaign has gone. Kerry's supporters (527's) have treated Bush as though he were Satan, and Bush apparently attacked the American people (those that come from Massachusettes or Hollywood) in his speeches. These things have gotten out of hand, of course, but I think both men want what is best for our country. They have differing visions and neither one is perfect, but I think, when you put them on the scales, Mr. Bush is just barely the better choice.[/pretending]
 
 
grant
14:08 / 08.11.04
I think this: If you think it's a mistake to replace the Commander In Chief during a war, you probably voted Republican.


is pretty key for a lot of people. They *know* Bush was doing *something*, and we're in a mode where doing something is (seen as) better than doing nothing.
 
 
ibis the being
14:29 / 08.11.04
All right, I'll play along.

I, Bizarro Ibis, voted for Bush because he's a focused wartime leader with a strong staff already in place. I feel that Kerry panders too much to public opinion at home and abroad - this kind of polling and surveying is too dangerous at a time when Americans are dying in Iraq every day. To give another example of Kerry's troubling tendency to do whatever seems popular, he promised to implement all the recommendations of the 9/11 committee - shouldn't he have selected the ones that made the most sense, like Bush did? Bush has proven that he's steady and unwavering, and I think that's the kind of leader we need in these uncertain times.
 
 
Aertho
15:15 / 08.11.04
(Bizarro-Chad initiated) I voted for Bush becasue my cousin, a marine stationed in Afghanistan, told me that There was a three week interim between the Bush calling for an invasion to remove the WMD, and us actually attacking. Three weeks! OBVIOUSLY, The Iraqis secreted the WMD away to an allied nation. Bush is totally gonna attack Syria next.

(But where does it end? If we attack every country in the Middle East, comb it through and still find nothing, what happens then? Do we attack EVERY nation that MIGHT have allied with some Middle East nation at one time?)

I would've voted for Kerry if he'd been more up front with informing me of his plans for Iraq. All he said was "we have a plan".

(Seeing as how the three week interim of the first argument was televised and allowed for the foreign world to react accordingly, the argument falls apart. If Kerry informed the world of his "plan", the foreign world would've likewise responded. Sometimes war plans must remain secret.)

Also, Kerry lied to the NRA. "Supposedly" Kerry sttod in front of AVID HUNTERS and told them how he crawled around with a rifle hunting bears. EVERYBODY knows you don't hunt bears with rifles. And it was an obvious attempt to get the NRA vote, which was just stupid. EVERYBODY in the NRA votes for Bush, hands down.

(Solipsist and childish thinking with the whole rifle and bear hunting situation. And the NRA vote was a noble attempt. Should Kerry have completely ignored reaching out to them?)

And another thing: Kerry's consistently voted AGAINST gun owners. He's pro-gun control and would tax people to death. They are being taxed to death. I'm being taxed to death.

(So it basically comes down to wanting everything to be cheap and easy. I don't want to give up my comforts and precious sense of individual security to take care of some unwed black mother I don't know. Yes, I know it makes me sound selfish, racist and stupid, but don't you dare tell me these things to my face.)

Perhaps you may have guessed it, but Bizarro Chad is an actual person. Bizzaro-Chad is replaying a conversation with his father, Craig : Battle Mode. Craig's a silly stupid Baby Boomer who can't process shame. He was careful to avoid the whole "moral issue" -seeing as how he's much more philandering Clinton than alcoholic Bush. In any case, it really comes down to wating things to be cheap and easy, and being afraid of change. My mother cows to him and tells me to "pick my battles".

I tell her perhaps they'll let her deliver the eulogy for my cousin, when he comes home in a box. He didn't get to pick his battle, and nothing about this fucked-up "war" initiative is cheap OR easy.
 
 
vajramukti
15:30 / 08.11.04
this is some serious qlippothic shit, yo.


me and my boyz figure war be the muthafuckin driving narrative of civilisation, knowwahtimsayin? george is just doing his part to lead us into the future. If you niggas read THE LUCIFER PRINCIPLE you'd be down with the real story behind all this spin and shit. Howard Bloom is so fuckin gangsta he don't even leave the house cause some punk ass bitches would bust a cap in his ass, yo.

Some Iraqui muthafuckas died, but so have a lot of my homies over here. why the fuck should they have protection from us when when we don't even have protection from us , knowwhatimsayin? shit happens dawg, and john kerry don't change that reality shit no matter what he says.

and no i dont wanna be drafted to die for oil, boy, but I don't wanna die on a street corner niether, and it still might happen. It's about survival, and the rest of that shit be for sellouts like p-diddy.

and fuck all 'yall if you aren't representin reality, yo. word up.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
16:16 / 08.11.04
[Off-topic]Hey everyone! It's time to play the "black and classist or white, classist and racist" game again! Which do we think vajramukti is? Can you guess? Wow, isn't Barbelith fun![/off-topic]
 
 
Aertho
16:18 / 08.11.04
Dear Lord. I know that the above sentiment is a joke, but that a book that begins saying that humankind is the first animal to imagine "peace" shouldn't be used as a reason to go to war. War, or Conflict, is a natural state, yes, but your insistance on "survival" leads me to wonder if the next book you read should'nt be Sex, Ecology, Spirituality.

The Lucifer Principle is basically saying that the same creative imagination that would imagine a "devil" for all of life's problems SHOULD be used to OVERCOME life's problems. "War", the way they've presented it and carried it out —is an archaic form of resolution. Terrorism won't end, Drug use won't end, Life's Problems won't end.
 
 
vajramukti
16:27 / 08.11.04
I think bloom is a bit more complex in his thinking than you imagine. If you check out some of his unpublished notes on his website, he argues pretty strongly for a global hyperpower to disarm fundamentalist muslims by force to protect us from pakistanian nuclear subs sailing into lake erie and nuking michigan.

which i think is bollocks mind you.

and yes i have read sex ecology and spirituality. and yes, it was a joke...
 
 
Aertho
16:38 / 08.11.04
We're totally geting off topic now, but what both books and yourself imply is that global hyperpower does not equal American superpower. If this conflict doesn't demand a more integrated and empowered United Nations, I don't know what will.
 
 
vajramukti
17:13 / 08.11.04
i don't think if it's off topic at all. that is, if we're trying to posit a conceptual framework for voting republican.

When bloom talks about global hyperpower, he was talking about the united states in this instance, and anyone who doesn't get with the program, such as france, are dangerously deluded fools or somesuch in his words.

you might also be curious to know that when ken wilber spoke on the war in iraq he praised tony blair up and down for building bridges and being the closest thing to an integral politician in the world. I'm not kidding.

in both men's writings, there is an emphasis on integrating all kinds of perspectives for the greater good. including ethnocentric, militaristic, and even genocidal bacterial imperitives.
 
 
lekvar
22:27 / 08.11.04
Speaking as real-life-lekvar-who-vted-for-Kerry, I have to admit that, as the provider in a single-income family with a 1.5 year old daughter, I'm quite fond of G.W.'s tax credits. I'd gladly give up the $1500 I'll be getting from the IRS in April to have Kerry in the Oval Office though.

<puts on armchair psychologist hat and hopes this isn't too off topic>
As a member of an increasingly disenfranchised middle class, I have been seeing my dollar shrink in value, seen the standard of living slide downhill since my father's day when a single-income family could afford a house and I needn't be crushed under student debt in order to get a decent job.

Now, as times are even tighter and the mortgage payment comes due, the man on the radio tells me that the current situation isn't my fault. He tells me that those liberals don't want me to have enough money, they want to take my money and give it to someone who is too lazy to work hard like I have, who doesn't want to go to school. The man on the radio tells me that illegal immigrants are slipping into the country to take jobs from people like me who want to work but can't find a job. He tells me that it'll all be OK so long as I vote for the candidate that, he assures me, won't cripple me with taxes. The man on the radio tells me this again and again, so it must be true.

OK, here's the point: I adapted this profile from a study done a number of years ago on members of the White Aryian Resistance- it also fits with studies done on the Millitia movement. A classic example of cult mentality.

Step one, identify marginalised members of society.
Step two, provide a charismatic leader.
Step three, explain to them that their situation is not their fault.
Step four, Find a scapegoat and vilify them.

In a classic cult, you would also have a unifying doctrine and an element of isolation in order to properly indoctrinate your members.
<takes off armchair psychologist hat>
 
 
lekvar
22:28 / 08.11.04
(or is that a tinfiol hat?)
 
 
Sekhmet
00:12 / 09.11.04
Well, here's an interesting opportunity.

I have a friend who is over right now. He is an intelligent guy with a liberal arts degree, a sonwriter, musician, poet and artist of no small talent. He's read the Invisibles, loves Transmetropolitan and is a huge fan of Bill Hicks. His live-in girlfriend of two years is a Wiccan. Last I checked they were both of them vegetarians.

Apparently, he voted for Bush. I cannot fathom this.

I intend to find out his reasoning on this point and report back. Bide.
 
 
Sekhmet
02:22 / 09.11.04
Hrrmph.

Funny, as soon as people started discussing politics, he had to go home.
 
 
wembley can change in 28 days
07:14 / 09.11.04
Awww, Sekhmet! Quelle domage!

There's some pretty good stuff in this thread (before a little rot set in). Part of my interest in this topic is because I'm thinking of writing a play. Given that I'm living in Europe, there's a HELL of a lot that people here don't understand about America, and being a Canadian, there's quite a bit left that I don't understand as well. Add to that a bit of left-leanage and I'm in the dark. So I am working on this. Lionel's comments on outsourcing were particularly interesting.

[pretend]A reason why I voted for Bush:
This world is not a kind place, and it never really has been. I don't mean it's all Wall Street dog-eat-dog; there's a special type of person who exists in that environment. I give to Red Cross and help out with my church's projects. It is my job to help others. But it's true that you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs. The Islamist militants crashed into our world without any real provocation aside from religious zeal and perhaps jealousy. They oppress women's rights, they control each other with religious propaganda and they don't respond to reason, at least not our reason. Sure, they're economically down-trodden. But it's their own work to get out of that - America didn't become the most powerful nation on earth by sitting on its ass, regardless of how much it does that at present.

My point is not that Bush is evil, but that he's realistic and pragmatic. We have a right to protect what we have earned; we have a right to live in safety. We don't actually need the rest of the world to help us, so why waste time and money pandering to them? Sure, that would be the "nice" thing to do. Yes, it's important for trade relations. But to be honest, we can trade with nations whether they like us or not. You can't make everyone like you anyway, and people always hate the privileged kid in the sandbox.

When you think about it, the democratic platform is actually more conservative on a global scale, resisting change and progress. Take a look at so many countries who are desperate for the kind of standard of living that we have, and the freedom to choose what to do with their lives! Why shouldn't we drive the world forward? Is the fact that American culture is spreading around the earth really a problem? People, cultures, languages always shift and change. One day America will be no more. But for the present we have an opportunity to give the world something better than they have. [/pretend]
 
 
Pingle!Pop
11:18 / 09.11.04
Wembley - If you're considering writing a play about it, perhaps a good place to start would be with people who actually voted for Bush, rather than speculation on their reasons cast by posters on a predominantly extreme-liberal message board? I could post up the results of a quick Google search, but am sure there are people around here who'd be able to point to the most perfect examples of where people's genuine reasons for voting Republican can be found. There're plenty of right-wing message boards and blogs out there, overflowing in some cases with pro-Bush fervour.
 
  
Add Your Reply