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Another annoying Sigil question

  
 
Joetheneophyte
13:03 / 07.11.04
I know I will probably be roasted for posting such a 'newbie' type question but here goes

(Please be gentle with me!!!!)

To date my experiments with Sigils have been less than spectacular. The most impressive thing I have achieved, was a test I set myself

I was thinking of things that I have never actually witnessed but that if I saw and if I asked for via sigilisation, I could have no doubt was either an incredible fluke or more likely brought into 'reality' via my interventions. I needed examples of things I had never seen or not seen for years and would jolt my conscious mind

the most impressive were the following:

I saw cats having sex (something I have never witnessed, I have witnessed plenty of dogs but never cats. They must be more private)

This was not some weird sexual kink but was just a test I set myself (honest!!!!!). It was to see whether my Sigil would actually work

I never actually witnessed two cats doing the nasty so to speak but I witnessed a programme about feral cats in Rome and the cats were performing in daylight, something I have never witnessed in the UK. Whilst on TV, it was still within a timescale that led me to believe that my Sigil had worked

The other confirmation and success was seeing the original Captain Birdseye advertisment. After not seeing the ad for years...I turned off a DVD just in time to see the last 5 seconds of the original Birdseye ad on a programme called 'the best 100 adverts of the last 20 years' or somesuch nostalgia nonsense

Again, hardly startling but within a reasonable timescale of my sigil casting

Now neither of these were that spectacular or even what could be called of interest to anybody else but they were vague enough to be my most solid proof of the efficacy of Magick/ Sigils


More beneficial and 'worthy' work has been a lot less inspiring. I believe the LUST FOR RESULTS aspect of requested events, has stopped me from letting the thoughts leave my mind.

I have asked for changes in my behaviour..........and a myriad of other requests/intentions that would benefit myself and on occassion others (I am wary of asking on others behalf in case I inadvertantly bring them harm etc)

little in the way of recognisable results has been achieved to date


Now onto my main question:

If I were to ask for a change in behaviour and I was successfully able to forget the intent and as a result it manifested........On noticing the change in behaviour, by virtue of seeing the Sigil had worked, would I then lose the benefits?

For example, if I cast a sigil to make me more assertive and a month down the line, I realised that I was acting more assertive......would I then revert to old behaviours?

Y'see, I understand that for a Sigil to manifest, the intent needs to be forgotten or suppressed.......so in behaviour change, if successful.....would the realisation it had been successful, negate the effect?


Sorry if this has been answered before and if so, please just ignore this and let it drop down the threads but whilst asking to see something such as cats shagging is pointless but achievable....something like behaviour change is more long term and I wonder whether the benefits would or could be maintained once the consciousness caught on that something had changed?



hope that reads okay and is of some interest to some of you

cheers


Joe (who really isn't 'into' seeing cats or dogs doing the marital unpleasantness)
 
 
eye landed
13:40 / 07.11.04
I understand that for a Sigil to manifest, the intent needs to be forgotten or suppressed

ive had sigil results without banishing or charging. i think banishing and charging are not necessary for mundane tasks such as you described. my sigil paradigm is mostly psychological (control of unconscious processes, including those outside the body), so the important part for me is the encoding process. i suspect charging is necessary for certain workings, but i havent figured out when i should and shouldnt charge. my current idea is that charging a sigil detaches it from you, so an uncharged sigil shouldnt effect anyone else. like you, i dont do very much sigiling for others. i stick to praying because it seems more flexible and less patronizing.

for me, wearing a sigil is effective for behavior change. i just decided i should experiment with wearing a hidden sigil versus a visible one.
 
 
Joetheneophyte
14:02 / 07.11.04
regarding prayer...I have just read a book by Gregg Braden called "The Issiah Effect" that deals with effective prayers

enjoyable book that pretty much backs up a magickal perspective of change (imo)

Feeling, emotion and thought are all necessary for prayers to be answered he alleges. Enjoyed the book, a pretty light read but interesting nonetheless


thanks for your input, very appreciated.......

interested to hear other peoples' experiences or thoughts on the efficacy of Sigilisation etc


cheers
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
17:58 / 07.11.04
Bloody sigils… for something that’s supposed to simplify sorcery and make results magic more accessible, it seems to cause an awful lot of confusion and procrastination. People seem to tie themselves up in knots over statement of intent, forgetting it, charging it, remembering it after you’ve forgotten it, forgetting to remember it, remember it after charging it, and so on.

Don’t worry so much. I don’t think magic responds very well when approached in that intellectualised neurotic sort of way. Woody Allen could probably write a good book on sigil magic, whilst never getting it to work. I think magic is more primal, creative and instinctive. It sounds like you’re reading a 16th century puritan religious tract out to those cats to convince them they ought to stop fucking in public, rather than just kicking them off the fence.

What exactly are you trying to accomplish in terms of behavioural change? I could probably suggest a more effective approach.
 
 
SteppersFan
19:45 / 07.11.04
I was gonna say No, just doing sigils won't bring about long term personality change, but then again if they're working for you, keep at it and when you've done one a month for 23 months you'll have got somewhere.

But they're not working for you.

Sounds like your intents are a bit grand and vague, especially for sigils. I'm definitely with Gypsy when he says you should stop worrying about it and intellectualising it too much. I'd have thought a programme of meditation would be in order. Maybe look at some gods that represent some of what you're after -- though that's the hardest bit. Intention is the key, innit.

Hint: ideas like self-forgiveness and compassion will probably come into it.
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
19:52 / 07.11.04
Personally? I think that the internal train of thought should be almost totally replaced with mantric sigils. (RUB OUT THE WORD)
 
 
Skeleton Camera
04:08 / 08.11.04
Make many sigils expressing various qualities of said long-term personal change. Fire them frequently in a short period of time. Make sure these qualities FOCUS what you want, instead of building many little tangents. It'll make you a bit crazy for a while, not to mention bring up MANY personal boundary challenges VERY fast, but it works in the end, "and works GOOD."
 
 
Joetheneophyte
07:14 / 08.11.04
thanks Folks

two issues I wanted to address were my drink buying habits and assertiveness

Basically, I love to drink. Not an alcoholic but I admit I am too reliant on drink for my own health

that is not as yet what I see as the problem

My problem is that despite telling myself repeatedly that I won't do it....when joined in the pub by acquaintances from work, I invariably crack and either buy them a drink or more than my fair share of rounds
Time and time again, I think "right so and so can fugg off.....he never gets the first round in and always ends up getting more off me than he ever buys back....this time I won't do it"

Then two or three drinks in, I crack and buy him a pint even though we haven't been in a round. I know this sounds petty but it happens time and time again and causes no end of resentment in me later on (I told you I was crackers)

The other issue is related but involves problems with my relationship with my dad and how he manipulates me with his fatherley guilt trips

Thanks for the advice to date......very appreciated
 
 
FinderWolf
17:24 / 08.11.04
on these subjects, Joe, as you've noted previously, a good therapist might be of help, in addition to sigils. Ditto Alcoholics Anonymous, perhaps, even though you're not an alcholic, you're describing a pattern of drinking as as result of some addictive or compulsive emotional patterns, and AA is good for stuff like that. It's basically free therapy. Or you could look into Adult Children of Alcoholics (which also works for any children whose parents showed problems with drink and/or drugs).

It's gonna be more than just sigils to conquer the stuff you're facing, methinks... but keep up with it and work your will & focus and I'm sure you will succeed.
 
 
macrophage
13:10 / 09.11.04
I dunno - you mean emotional engineering of your self? Try to make up your Alphabet of Desire, by any means you know - deep meditation, automatic writing, etc.. Or steal the ideas these NLP honcho's use - you know how to change your resource states with any modality - based "anchor" of your choice. Possibly a talisman mebbe better or a servitor. Do you want it to come into existence as a repeat sigil? Sigil results can get wacked out in the most surreal senses. Some will out in the most strangest of situations. Cat sex eh?! It's amazing what people want to nab out of kia innit? I presume this is your allied power animal then. How about some lyconthropy a were - cat in the dreaming?
 
 
gale
18:04 / 09.11.04
none
 
 
gale
18:12 / 09.11.04
Joe,

Have you tried changing your behavior without using sigils? You certainly seem to know what needs changing. Why not ask whatever spirits/entities/deities you have a relationship with to help you out and give you strength when you need it (like before you walk into that pub for instance)?

As for assertiveness, I know this isn't exactly the same thing, but smiling at people can be extremely disarming. I think it was Phil Hine who said something to the effect that being really, really nice often works better than magic.

(And what's up with those cats, anyway?)
 
 
Joetheneophyte
09:02 / 11.11.04
Again thanks folks

gale....you are definately onto something here, my best piece of magic ever was when I successfully quelled a fruit machine addiction by mentally(?) conversing with the spirit of fruit machines

I didn't have the urge to gamble at all for one month.....it was as if the urge would start in my stomach/solar plexus and then just dissipate.....I could almost sense something deflecting me from the machine if I got near it (in hindsight it was quite bizarre)

I have since dabbled and had the urge come back but Gypsey Lantern I think it was, quite rightly told me just to redo the agreement and invoke/evoke often etc.


I agreed to pay a nominal fee of £1 each month to keep the spirit happy but again, once the pound was gone.....the urge never took over. I am currently or I believe I am conversing with the spirit of gambling .....the main moolah above all other aspects.....I have seen him in various forms in my head....leprachaun......old cantankerous chinese guy and most recently similar to a gambling version of the Jim Crow character in the Invisibles


still awaiting the results.....I have been gambling ..... though not as much or as often so some progress but more work will have to be done. As for the other habits......quite a few irons in the fire and magickal interventions planned

I will post when and if I see the results. I don't want to go into to much detail as I have employed sigils for some of the work and don't want to think about it too much
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
09:37 / 11.11.04
I'd agree that it's worth approaching the problem on a couple of different fronts. One obvious thing that everyone persistantly overlooks is the simple practice of getting your ancestors onside. I mean, you identify two problems, there's the compulsive destructive behaviour that you're trying to overcome, and there's issues relating to your relationship with your dad. Both of these situations are things that your ancestors would be directly concerned with and take an interest in.
 
  
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