BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


'Energy'

 
 
Ganesh
13:22 / 18.11.01
Okay, I'm aware I'm coming at this from a 'hard science' background, but I'd be interested to hear what people mean when they talk about 'energy' in a magickal context.

What kind of energy? Can it be observed? Can it be measured? What do you understand by the term?
 
 
SMS
17:54 / 18.11.01
One thing I think that is often meant is FEELING. You know, the energy of the room and such.

Otherwise, I don't understand it (unless they DO mean hard science energy).
 
 
Lothar Tuppan
01:20 / 19.11.01
In addition to SMatthew's def. I think part of the problem is that we magical types use the religiously/traditionally neutral term 'energy' to mean a wide variety of sensations and phenomena.

It sometimes means a 'feeling' as mentioned above.

It is also used to mean a charging and focusing of what martial artists call Chi, Ki, etc. At least if magical 'energy' in this sense isn't chi it's definitely in the same 'spectrum'. But calling it chi puts it squarely in a far eastern ontology.

It may be similar to Kundalini but I don't feel confident saying that it either is or isn't from my own experiences. And also, calling it Kundalini puts it into a Tantric ontology and that's an ontology that has been sorely bastardized by most western interpretations of it.

People who do Reiki or other 'energetic' healing work train themselves to be able to physically 'feel' energy and this comes back to your original question of can it be measured.

I haven't seen any studies as to whether these types of 'energy' can be measured so I'm not really sure.

Maybe PATricky knows of any scientific studies of chi. I know from my personal experience that chi certainly feels physical and measureable.

But I personally am entertaining the notion that what we call magical 'energy', in some cases at least, might be something of a different animal.

When I work with the Tarot or the Runes I usually select the cards or lots by 'feeling' for the right 'energy'. What this experience is like is that I will feel either a tingling sensation or what feels like almost a magnetic pull or push from the 'right' cards/lots. Sometimes it is an increase or decrease in heat over the right cards/lots.

But this may only be the way that my body/mind is inputing the data.

I don't necessarily think that the cards are actually getting hotter and I'm not sure that when working with energetic exercises (anybody else out there come across the good old 'energy ball' exercise?) that I'm physically encountering barriers or physical biomagnetic pulls.

One of the beginning training exercises for sensing a person's 'energy' is to have your back turned to the person with your ears covered and to try and sense when they get to say a foot away. What's interesting is that your scepticism goes away when you can be correct say 9 out of 10 times or even 10 out of 10 times. It feels sometimes like warmth of the body or like the air just moved against your skin. Sometimes like the feeling of being watched. Sometimes you just 'know'.

My point to all that is that while it seems to be a physical sensation created by physical (albeit subtle) energies maybe it's not. Maybe it's something else and the only way we can input it is through the senses that we use on an everyday basis. So we feel, smell, see etc.

Maybe in some cases we are 'recalibrating' ourselves to be able to detect the various bioelectric energies of others in which case it could be measureable energy.

Maybe in some other cases we are inputing something stranger that we really don't have a concept of. something born of intent, wyrd (the phenomenon, not the 'lither ), and other things.

I'm curious as to any info anybody has out there from the parapsychological fields about the studies of measuring 'energy'.

Especially anything that anyone might have from the USSR during the '70s and '80s when their Parapsychology budgets were at their highest.
 
 
Papess
02:14 / 19.11.01
E=mc2

*just being a smart ass*


-May
 
 
adamswish
12:48 / 19.11.01
quote:Originally posted by Lothar Tuppan:
(anybody else out there come across the good old 'energy ball' exercise?)


In my limited exposure to tai chi I've experience this. And, at the time it does feel like there is something there between your hands (okay my hands).

Of course you could be talking about something compleatly different in which case ignore my ramblings.

[ 19-11-2001: Message edited by: adamswish ]
 
 
Mordant Carnival
13:30 / 19.11.01
*Gazing down from lofty peak of electronics engineerhood at mere mortal psychiatrist*

My science is harder than your science.

When I personally use the term in a magicky sort of context, I don't mean energy in the scientific sense. It's not something you could measure (although you can indeed feel it, sort of), or that obeys any normal laws of physics. In fact, "energy", in this context, doesn't really seem to cover it; I've been trying to come up with a more appropriate term, but what? Signal? Pattern? Both of those cover some aspects but not others.

"Magickal energy", for me, is a convenient shorthand, a model if you will, which helps me to conceptualize a process (spell, whatever.) It's not a term I'm entirely happy with, but it has its uses.

Or to put it more succinctly: errr... ummmm... errr... Look! L. Ron Hubbard!

*hides*
 
 
cusm
13:41 / 19.11.01
Its a universal metaphore, with as many definitions as there are for the word "magic". Typically, it is aspected to something. For isntance, Reiki is 'healing' energy, Chi is 'vital' energy, witcraft uses 'Earth' energy, etc. About the only consistent thing about it is that it involves a sensualization (usually visual, but not always, as in the case of "feelings") of a magical process.

From the science perspective, I explain it sometimes as an externalization of an internal cognitive function, attached to a sensory experience. Theory and practice being, if I bind concepts to physical (or imaginary) items then manipulate those items, my psyche will change accordingly, as long as I believe in the link hard enough to accept the change. The "magic" part is in how one person is able to experience another's supposedly "internal" cognation attached to a hallucination The unexplainable part is how this is apparantly transferable. Insert theories of psychic connections, quantum information tunneling, aetherics, and morphic fields here.

Magic is often seen in one of two ways: One, purely psychological, with all experiences being explained by internal sensory hallucination or symbolic manipulation of cognitive function to cause psychological change. The other, that will and intent actually cause an environmental change which can have real and tangible (or at least perceptory to others) effects, and that the environment can cause these effects without the will of the perceiver. Psyche vs spirit model. Any use of the spirit model involves use of an energy metaphore somewhere.

How's dat?
 
 
cusm
13:50 / 19.11.01
Alternately, everything Obi Wan and Yoda said about The Force applies
 
 
Bill Posters
13:54 / 19.11.01
That's so trippy, 'cos I had been meaning to start a thread about this. This one touches on the subject:
http://www.barbelith.com/cgi-bin/
ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=000116


And the 'Lines of Force' thread did, but I can't seem to find it. Oh and this one does too:
http://www.barbelith.com/cgi-bin/
ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000009



My 10 pence worth would be that many people seem to conceive visually of "energy" as a kind of electricity, or at least, it's electrical metaphors they talk/think in. Alternatively (yet, in many cases at the same time) people talk/think of "energy" using 'watery' metaphors. I'd agree with the suggestion above that grabbing metaphors from a dominant discourse, ie. scientism, is ironically conformist given how 'radical' some magicians think they are, and not necessarily a useful way of constructing "magickal power", whatever that might be. Please correct this if necessary, but am I right in saying that we can't see electricity per se, but only by-products of it, such as heat and light? So energy can't look like electricity, because electricity doesn't look like anything to our perceptual aparatus.

Oh, and to add to Lothar's doubts about Kundalini, I have a feeling (from what little I've read) that chi is as bastardised in the western useage as Kundalini is; I read a fairly convinving argument that it translates better as 'breath' than 'energy'.

Now I've just realised I don't know how 'prana', or 'mana' fit into all this...
 
 
Ganesh
14:16 / 19.11.01
So... from what y'all say, I'd conclude that 'energy' in a magickal context refers to something that is:

a) subjectively experienced, and
b) not quite definable by the term.

Does that sound about right?

<skillfully avoids getting into a 'science turgidity' battle with Mordant, knowing full well that her engineering hardon beats his psychiatric semi hands down...>
 
 
Bill Posters
14:42 / 19.11.01
Ahh, but as a social so-called scientist, I have a chronic case of total, incurable impotence!

And 'yes', to the above summary of what we think.
 
 
Lothar Tuppan
16:32 / 19.11.01
quote:Originally posted by adamswish:


Of course you could be talking about something compleatly different in which case ignore my ramblings.

[ 19-11-2001: Message edited by: adamswish ]


Sounds like the same thing (or at least a close cousin) to me.
 
 
Lothar Tuppan
16:37 / 19.11.01
quote:Originally posted by Bill Laden:


Oh, and to add to Lothar's doubts about Kundalini, I have a feeling (from what little I've read) that chi is as bastardised in the western useage as Kundalini is; I read a fairly convinving argument that it translates better as 'breath' than 'energy'.

Now I've just realised I don't know how 'prana', or 'mana' fit into all this...


I agree with your translation and even though the common translation has been bastardized I think the practice is still fairly consistent since it is based around getting the same results (as opposed to Tantra where completely differnent practices and results are labelled 'tantra'). Breath, used properly can produce physical 'energetic' results. Breath without the discipline is stil life though and is still Chi.

You brought up a good point with prana. Prana I think is closer to chi than Kundalini is.

Mana is Hawaiian and is a whole other thread (any Huna practitioners around?)
 
 
Lothar Tuppan
16:43 / 19.11.01
quote:Originally posted by Ganesh:
So... from what y'all say, I'd conclude that 'energy' in a magickal context refers to something that is:

a) subjectively experienced, and
b) not quite definable by the term.

Does that sound about right?



Yup. I think part of the problem lies with our language that doesn't have words for what we are experiencing and with the additional problem that borrowing words from other languages that are usually tied pretty closely with a specific tradition or experience that isn't exactly what we are trying to describe.

'Energy' is sometimes the closest guesstimation.
 
 
Ganesh
17:14 / 19.11.01
quote:Originally posted by Ganesh:
a) subjectively experienced, and
b) not quite definable by the term.


'Course we've had the exact same difficulties over in the Head Shop (and elsewhere) trying to discuss 'depression'...
 
 
grant
17:43 / 19.11.01
A side note (that I've mentioned before): I like to think of chi, as I experience in tai chi class, as really referring to a kind of efficiency more than energy.

It's more like your kinetic energy as limbs move through space is focused into exactly the proper movement, and hits this kind of gestalt thing, where the sum of each micro-movement is greater than the parts.

In that sense, I suppose "chi" really responds to a kind of "organization" or "information" rather than "energy," since it describes the way matter (bodies) and energy (movement) interact. And once that chi/information gets focused enough, it becomes its own thing, where the smallest amount of energy put in (moving a finger, say) gets the greatest possible return (throwing an opponent across the room).

I suppose you could link this "efficiency" model to things like prana (breath) and reiki healing through the subconscious - a mode of processing information more effectively than the conscious mind. Breathing correctly would activate the "efficiency" organizer in your own head, I suppose, and make all the stuff you were born with (eyes, ears, olfactory, muscles) work much better, to an almost supernatural degree.

Just a theory, mind you.
 
 
Logos
22:27 / 19.11.01
What is this 'energy'?

I don't know, but I could sure use some more of it right about now.

Other than that--I'll just second what y'all said.
 
 
Mr Tricks
22:48 / 19.11.01
quote:
Maybe PATricky knows of any scientific studies of chi. I know from my personal experience that chi certainly feels physical and measureable.


Not that's I can offer any links at the Moment, but I would say that "chi/qi/ki" has been measured scientificly. There was a Major todo put on about it in 1999 when the Chinese government made it's official announcement on the subject, presented it's proof and announced the opening of a major institution devoted to it's study & application. The magazine I work for covered it in seceral articles. I also have a good friend who has visited that same university in CHINA personally...

Of course you're all just taking my word for it at this point...sorry I'll try & dig up some links.

Now personally I've certainly experienced the effects of Chi & Chi manipulation...we even have film footage of a guy knocking another guy unconscious from about 3 feet by projecting his Chi... I would consider that a magikial occurance.
Experience has lead me to believe Chi to be different from Kundelini... perhaps in terms of "frequency."


quote:
I read a fairly convinving argument that it translates better as 'breath' than 'energy'...
Now I've just realised I don't know how 'prana', or 'mana' fit into all this...



Well the translation often degrades a concept. From what I've read... Prana, like Chi can be enhaled... yet it is not simply breath/O2+whatever else is in the air.


Grant... alot of what you're discribing could also fit into the active term of Tao which is essentially Yin chi moving in/through the universe. Tai-Chi can be translate as Universial-Chi... with it's main lesson being exactly what your describing: Learning to move through the universe in such a way that your personal chi & universial CHI are in such alignment... not ony can you suffer no harm (from an attack) but (ideally) you would not suffer from the effects of space/time (age).


Also consider Chi can often be experience as heat... such as being emmited by a "chi-healer" as well as force, like the example I metione dabove & a bucnh of others I could go on about. Also, I've had accupuncture sessions where I've felt the inner workings of my own chi as something vaguely similar & almost opposite to one's foot falling asleep...you know "Pins & needles".


I'll have to re-read my Hakuna texts... but if recall correctly it translates more closely toward energy(nourishment) available.


In terms of it being the same or different from "other" magikal energies, that sounds quite subjective.. . . OK... I'll go read the rest of this thread now


[ 20-11-2001: Message edited by: PATricky ]

[ 20-11-2001: Message edited by: PATricky ]
 
 
the Fool
22:53 / 19.11.01
quote:Originally posted by Ganesh:
[QB]So... from what y'all say, I'd conclude that 'energy' in a magickal context refers to something that is:

a) subjectively experienced, and
b) not quite definable by the term.

Does that sound about right?QB]


Maybe its like zen. No one can tell you what it is. You have to experience it for yourself.

Though there is the whole electromagnetic fields produced by the body that could have something to do with it.
 
 
cusm
13:08 / 20.11.01
Speaking of electromagnetic fields...

This site has some really neat kirlian photos involving reiki use.
 
 
Naked Flame
13:38 / 20.11.01
I always get a kick out of trying to harmonise opposing paradigms. I'm that kind of crazy guy.

So... science (and May) inform us that matter is energy. So, everything's energy. Then we get bogged down trying to figure out what kind of energy and end up drowning in new age buzzwords.

All the subjective experiences recounted above have more to do with classifying energy. But we know from quantum mechanics that the act of observation is itself an act of change- this is why it's so goddam slippery, because we can't adequately explain the senses that we're using to key into these esoteric energies, and even if we could, by interacting with them we've modified reality.

Grant's description of tai chi feeling more like efficiency than energy is a big clue... it tells us that what we're talking about in this process of sensing is an interaction between systems. My Reiki instructor told me that I'd feel sensations of energy- tingling, heat, cold, etc- when I started practicing but informed me that these would disappear in time. When I asked why, she told me that the sensations were not the energy but my resistance to the energy. I encountered similar teachings in tai chi.

This leaves me thinking that there's zillions of different kinds of energy both pyhsical and metaphysical. Wavelengths. Patterns. Polarities. We cannot know them, we can only glimpse how they work when the interact with other systems. And if we're in harmony with them we may never notice that they're there. What we can do is flow with them and see what happens in our bodies and minds... but be aware that by the time you sense it you've already transformed it into something else.
 
 
Papess
15:17 / 20.11.01
I hope I didn't offend anyone with my last post here but I was really just jokin' around.

If I may add something slightly more intelligent to this thread than I previously did, I would like to say firstly, that I did lie awake pondering your question Ganesh. The result was not too profound but the best way to describe the way I use the term "energy" is I view it and use it as a force or... "Pure Power".
Not power or force in the crude sense, to dominate or control but that which drives all things. I guess some call this "God". This force is undefinable and omnipresent yet appears to be mutable as it makes it's decent from pure energy into perceivable form. As we break down this form, energy in it's purest is not really exsistant when you look very closely at it. Maybe it's only there when we look away.

Hmm...
-May Tricks

[ 20-11-2001: Message edited by: May Tricks ]
 
 
Kobol Strom
15:50 / 20.11.01
I've seen and felt energy at different times and in different ways,and I agree with the idea of a subjective paradigm.
I believe that the astral body is real,and I also believe that it feels like it glows,even when it can't be visually appreciated.A lot of my experiences with energy are like this.I know its possible to feel energy changes on a conscious level,and I also know that it is possible to feel these relatively small internal changes as something painful ,even overwhelming and considerably more powerful at different stages of consciousness.
I guess ,we are made up of this energy,and as this energy can transmute,so can we.I don't think there is a limit to what you can do,and as I've been reading in Sylvan Muldoons' excellent book on astral projection,an interaction between objects in the real world from the astral is actually possible.
 
 
Gus
20:00 / 20.11.01
From a chaos magick perspective, it should't really matter what the actual reality of the phenomenon might be. Once you've designed, or borrowed somewhere, a model for the nature and functions of magickal energies which you can believe in, are comfortable with and, most importantly, which works, then just use it. Reality is what you can get away with.

I have one model which I've been working with for a while and which I still find satisfying. It's always evolving and is liable to be replaced completely if my mindset goes through a major mutation.

As for physically perceiving this "energy", my experiences are very similar to what has been described so far: a temperature change (usually heat) and a tingling feeling at the lowest levels, a penetrating, numbing sensation accompanied by a repulsing, magnetic-like force at higher levels. I can usually feel the presence and level of this in a place or object by concentrating and "reaching out" to it mentally. I use this to find places where earth power is strong and identify objects which are "charged", either through deliberate enchantment, association to a godform and worship, or strong emotional discharge.

I consider this to be the same "lifeforce" (albeit in a different state) which I take from within myself and launch in small renewable portions when casting sigils, or tear out in large self-regenerating quasi-independent chunks when creating permanent servitors.

This could get long and complicated but basically: 1- I know it exists because I have felt it, sometimes very strongly 2-I believe everyone may perceive it in different ways and a universal model would not be necessary or useful, though the sharing of personal experiences and approaches is always constructive.
 
 
Mr Tricks
22:16 / 20.11.01
quote:
Not power or force in the crude sense, to dominate or control but that which drives all things. I guess some call this "God". This force is undefinable and omnipresent yet appears to be mutable as it makes it's decent from pure energy into perceivable form.


"The Tao that can be spoken of is not the Tao, it is formless yet everpresent"
....or something like that... Lao Tzu

It's like asking a fish what water is... ....assuming one could speak to a fish, you miht as well ask a rock or a blender.
 
 
cusm
14:46 / 21.11.01
I should note, there are some things which are called 'energy' that can be somewhat explained. For instance, chi use is often misunderstood. Doing qigong exercises, prana, or Taoist alchemy will cause your hands or other parts to grow hot. That's because these exercises give you more direct control over your blood circulation. If you increase the circulation to an area, it gets hot. That's one level. Tingling feelings are your nerves being stimulated, for whatever reason. Conscious control over the nervous system, tactile hallucination. Everyone creates an electromagnetic field which is sometimes seen as the aura. This can be felt, seen, and manipulated by generating nervous electrical current. Moving electrical current causes magnetic fields. Basic Physics E&M. That's another level.

All of these things are experienced as energy, but have tangible effects. Often, they are all called Chi Often, they describe or effect blood circulation or nervious stimulation. Kundalini seems to affect hormonal releases, control over the endocrine system. A burst of seratonin or endorphine. There's yet another level.

And just for the record, I can do all of the above, which is why I can talk about it and say what I think they're actually doing. I've worked with them. Its all very neat stuff. It seems the point of a lot of eastern practices give you conscious control over things in your body you just shouldn't have control over normally. Its by no means easy, and I'm by no means a master of anything, but I've gotten enough of them to work to do some basic tricks with them and see what its about. Stuff like heating hands, heating someone else's limbs, shutting down my metabolism into a death trance until I'm ice cold, orgasming with about half of my body (still working with that one ), sensing the location of someone's hands without sight or touch, that sort of thing.

The thing is, practicing any of the above requires one to visualize it as energy, as an abstract concept. How else to describe the sensation? My point here being, it seems a lot of it can be traced to measaurable physical effects. One often mistakes the effect with the energy itself. The tingle isn't the energy, but 'energy' is causing it, somewhere.

Now, triggering these effects in someone else, that by physics would require a transfer of energy in some level. So, there's something else going on that we can't yet measure. I've read some wacky Tesla derived theories about ambient fields and the like, subtle E&M, and there might be something to that. Perhaps "Earth energy" is the earth's ambient EM field. All I know there is that when I or someone else casts circle, it tingles. There's something there. I can throw it around, but can only guess about what it really is. If its not inside my body, its a little harder to get a reading on it.

Then there's the fun stuff, like psychic healing. Why is it if you push around the energy in someone's back, it causes them to release psychological tension and mental obsticals? Can psychic work be explained by transfer of data through connecting EM fields between nervous systems? Intranetworking neural nets? I'm not even going to touch sigel sorcery, there are enough theories on that in Carol's works alone.

Anyway, some fun ramblings on pet theories. I like to try to get at the science behind the magic.
 
 
Quantum
10:17 / 06.07.05
'Everyone creates an electromagnetic field which is sometimes seen as the aura. This can be felt, seen, and manipulated by generating nervous electrical current. Moving electrical current causes magnetic fields. Basic Physics E&M.' (cusm)

'Energy' is a metaphor people use to understand magic, especially in terms of fields etc. (the aura) channeling power etc. Any recent thoughts anyone?
I'm intrigued to know if anyone has anything further on the Chinese 'proof' of chi, or about the EM field theory of cusm's- how do we see fields of invisible energy?
 
 
illmatic
11:24 / 06.07.05
If you want something approximating hard science proof, Q, look at Wilhelm Reich's work. He gave full instructions on how to build his energy acculmulating devices and details of lots of experiments. This wouldn't convince a skeptic but none of them ever try his experiments. Those who do, report success (of course, they are mere "Reichians" so inherently *biased* and *unscientfic*). Do a google for James De Meo.
 
 
Unconditional Love
15:21 / 06.07.05
qi gong scientific papers

The period of modern Qigong research: (1980s – present). As more and more Qigong practitioners came out to show the public their amazing abilities and to teach the public to practice Qigong, it gradually emerged from the traditional secret transmission into a practice found in the public domain and scientific research.
 
 
Quantum
17:07 / 06.07.05
Reich's Orgone is a form of energy, but I was referring to the Chinese gov'ts research referenced in this old reiki thread by Mr Tricks-
While i don't have any available links... Qi/Chi IS a measurable energy. China is spending BIG bucks on this very topic.
..that I'm sure I've seen mentioned elsewhere.
 
 
Quantum
17:38 / 06.07.05
Oh, thank you Walking in Circles!
Here's a site with a load more links.
 
 
eye landed
22:11 / 06.07.05
'hard science' doesnt really have a more solid model for energy than we do in this thread.

for example...

some energy exchange involves 'virtual photons' that only exist long enough to complete the transfer;

the halves of a photon split into two can affect each other instantaneously at a distance;

nobody knows how gravity works, and even einsteins best idea depends on matter and energy being the same;

theres a lot of evidence suggesting a galactic electric network as a major power source for stars;

and what exactly is 'potential energy'? does it 'exist'?

im sure you can think of more ways in which science sweeps energy under the mathematical carpet.

just like a hippie, a scientist sees energy when she sees action. if theres action, there must be energy there, right? so we try to find it. our technology doesnt allow us to detect every manifestation of energy; in fact we can detect some with our human senses that we cant quantify. if you 'feel' energy, its a safe bet that something is electrically stimulating your neurons. it might be discretely detectable with sensory cells, it might be a neural loop communicating with the past (or future?), or it might be emergent from the total brain state.

so hard science doesnt really have a harder paradigm for energy than magic does. they tend to have better math, though.

in day to day usage in mandarin, i think the best translation for qi is 'atmosphere', although it also can literally mean 'air' or 'smell'. 'bukeqi' is what you say when somebody thanks you, and it means 'dont guest air'=dont act like you are a guest. we can do the same in english, when we say somebody is putting on airs, or something smells fishy. we are talking about the environmental situation, or how an event subtly affects the setting.

another expression, shengqi, could be translated as 'birth of breath'. sounds profound, but it means 'to get angry'. perhaps from rapid breathing during arousal.

you should practice qigong in a clean natural setting (like the top of a mountain) in order to exchange your impure body qi with pure qi. (unless of course you have some reason to absorb impure qi, such as for divination.) people who live in cities breathe in the city. they become chemically and rhythmically synchronized with the city, a step to becoming a cell rather than an ego.

i think the energy called qi in taijiquan and similar exercises is derived from gravity. im taught that all movement should proceed from the centre of gravity in the body, that all force should originate in the ground, and all force used against me should be dissipated into the ground. thus a body with good qi is mechanically adept at using the resistance of gravity to accomplish tasks. all the mechanical force available to me depends on gravity (and the law of opposite reactions). even when i push horizontally against a wall, my power comes from friction working against gravity-- and the structural integrity of the wall and my body, which is electical.

thanks for the qi science links.
 
 
eye landed
23:50 / 06.07.05
from walking in circlesz link above, from the paper entitled 'qigong and neurological illness':

He reported it was possible to relieve pain and circulatory disturbances due to spastic muscles or arteries in vasoconstriction by applying qigongized paper (i.e., paper to which he emitted his qi) to an affected area of the body. For a favorable effect, the qigongized paper should have (+) polarity. The polarity on the paper depended upon how the emitted qigong was applied to the paper and from which part of the body it emanated.

what kind of crystals do you get if you qigongize a label and stick it on a flask of water?
 
 
macrophage
18:53 / 21.07.05
Energy can become everything the bood that pumps around our bodies, our neuro-transmitters, breething, etc... It can easilly get visualised as colours (getting into 7 different colour systems can become a strain you just have to reframe). Look at Biofeedback and AutoGenic Training!! The next system seems the Informational Model - Ciracadian Rythm Inductions, Word Virus Installings, etc... Not that I know shit all the Eastern systems have it, and you can do the Vowel Songs of Jan Fries and Peter Carroll (the GRP) to centre energy around. Meditation and visualisation and positive self-hypnosis can help!!
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:24 / 11.09.07
Test bump (there are two of these and I need to know which is the active one).
 
  
Add Your Reply