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Nobody's girl
22:23 / 29.10.04
I think I'm getting too cynical in my old age, but the timing of this recent tape from Bin Laden seems awfully convienient for Bush.
 
 
Bed Head
22:54 / 29.10.04
aaaaaaaannd there’s your October surprise.

Good to see Kerry immediately bypassing the nuances and going straight to why is this guy still out there. Straight away, the Belligerent-Meathead manoeuver, nice move: never mind about the content, just try to mop up that sense of national outrage. This thing can still go his way. I mean, I'm sure the Bush team think it's going to help them, but K’s already made a really big point in all the debates of how Bush took his eye off Bin Laden in order to go after Iraq. He’s just *got* to hammer that point home now.

Btw, I also think that BBC report is rather oddly slanted, compared to the writeups it’s getting on AP. BBC news has been weird the last couple of days.
 
 
lekvar
23:47 / 29.10.04
The sad thing, the really horrifyingly disgusting thing, is that, once you get past the fact that this man was resopnsible for the most horrific attack on U.S. soil ever, he's spelling out in plain language why the U.S. is disliked in the Middle East. Everybody will trip all overthemselves, though, alternately pointing out how evil he is and using his message to further their own agendas.
 
 
ibis the being
01:18 / 30.10.04
Have you all heard or read the text of the message? I really don't think it's convenient for Bush. At all. I think the way the media is covering it - by nicely leaving out the following bits - is the only thing about it that's convenient for Bush.

In the video, Bin Laden accused Bush of misleading Americans by saying the attack was carried out because al-Qaida "hates freedom." The terrorist leader said his followers have left alone countries that do not threaten Muslims.

"We fought you because we are free ... and want to regain freedom for our nation. As you undermine our security we undermine yours," bin Laden said.

He said he was first inspired to attack the United States by the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon in which towers and buildings in Beirut were destroyed in the siege of the capital.

"While I was looking at these destroyed towers in Lebanon, it sparked in my mind that the tyrant should be punished with the same and that we should destroy towers in America, so that it tastes what we taste and would be deterred from killing our children and women," he said.

"God knows that it had not occurred to our mind to attack the towers, but after our patience ran out and we saw the injustice and inflexibility of the American-Israeli alliance toward our people in Palestine and Lebanon, this came to my mind," he said.

Bin Laden suggested Bush was slow to react to the Sept. 11 attacks, giving the hijackers more time than they expected. At the time of the attacks, the president was listening to schoolchildren in Florida reading a book.

"It never occurred to us that the commander in chief of the American armed forces would leave 50,000 of his citizens in the two towers to face these horrors alone," he said, referring to the number of people who worked at the World Trade Center.

"It appeared to him (Bush) that a little girl's talk about her goat and its butting was more important than the planes and their butting of the skyscrapers. That gave us three times the required time to carry out the operations, thank God," he said.

Excluding the hijackers, the Sept. 11 attacks killed 2,749 people at the World Trade Center, 184 at the Pentagon and 40 in Pennsylvania.

In planning the attacks, bin Laden said he told Mohammed Atta, one of the hijackers, that the strikes had to be carried out "within 20 minutes before Bush and his administration noticed."

Bin Laden compared the Bush administration to repressive Arab regimes "in that half of them are ruled by the military and the other half are ruled by the sons of kings and presidents."

He said the resemblance became clear when Bush's father was president and visited Arab countries.

"He wound up being impressed by the royal and military regimes and envied them for staying decades in their positions and embezzling the nation's money with no supervision," bin Laden said.

"He passed on tyranny and oppression to his son, and they called it the Patriot Act, under the pretext of fighting terror. Bush the father did well in placing his sons as governors and did not forget to pass on the expertise in fraud from the leaders of the (Mideast) region to Florida to use it in critical moments."
 
 
ibis the being
01:26 / 30.10.04
once you get past the fact that this man was resopnsible for the most horrific attack on U.S. soil ever, he's spelling out in plain language why the U.S. is disliked in the Middle East.

Right - this is the fascinating aspect of the tape. Bin Laden's made it clear that it's US foreign policy, not any one president nor this ridiculous meme "They hate America, they hate freedom," that's at the heart of the War on Terror. Some former govt intelligence agents have said the same.... The crazy thing is that Bin Laden's making more sense on the topic than Bush or even Kerry.
 
 
Nobody's girl
02:29 / 30.10.04
I understand that Bin Laden's actual message is hardly complimentary towards Bush, but how many people are actually going to go to the trouble of reading it? How many people in the US will listen to what Bin Laden has to say with an open mind? I mean, c'mon, this is the motherfucker who bombed the homeland, right? People will hear that Bin Laden has sent another of his vague threats in their direction (which are frankly reducing in power since he hasn't done shit on US soil since 9/11) and Bush will play on the fear response in his campaigning. Whether or not the US public will bend to his fearmongering is yet to be assessed. It's been a relatively sucessful strategy so far, if the polls are to be believed.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
08:38 / 30.10.04
Nobody's girl: in this case, I think your cynicism MAY be misplaced. (I say MAY... my first thought on hearing of it was "oh, what a good piece of timing on GEORGE's part", but on further thought, not so much)
The tape could pretty much go against either candidate... and bin Laden, remember, is a master of media manipulation- hence the young guns- al-Zaqarwi (sp?) et al following his lead by making media tools of their atrocities.
HE knows this is a perfect time to relelase the tape- apart from anything else, it's a time of insecurity quite apart from the War On Terror due to anxiety about the elections. What better time for the bogeyman to stick his head out from under the bed and deliver another scare?
 
 
fluid_state
09:02 / 30.10.04
I dunno... if the Administration chooses to bear down on this (or has the brains/guts to), it could easily be spun pro-Bush in the next few days. By paying particular attention to the specific Bush references, a case could be made to vote FOR him. "Are you really going to do what your enemy tells you to do? Bush/Cheney 04, baby." Next thing you know, someone'll bust Saddam out of prison en route to Iraq.
 
 
Nobody's girl
15:34 / 30.10.04
Hmm. Well, Bin Laden is a good media manipulator, and certainly it could help either candidate if they spin it well but I think it serves Bush's fear agenda better.
This from AP again has Cheney spinning it his (predictable) way-

"Vice President Dick Cheney made his pitch in Pennsylvania, suggesting that bin Laden's latest message underscores the importance of staying focused on the fight against terrorism."

This from Kerry-

"We are absolutely united in our determination to hunt down and destroy Osama bin Laden and the terrorists." He went on: "They are barbarians, and I will stop at absolutely nothing to hunt down, capture or kill the terrorists wherever they are, whatever it takes, period."

Kerry's "kill the terrorists" rhetoric is really starting to piss me off. Clearly it's now a votewinner to say you've decided to kill someone without a trial in the US these days, just as long as they're "evil terrorists" as decided by the government.
 
 
ibis the being
16:24 / 30.10.04
People will hear that Bin Laden has sent another of his vague threats in their direction (which are frankly reducing in power since he hasn't done shit on US soil since 9/11) and Bush will play on the fear response in his campaigning.

Oh, I don't disagree with you at all. I just think that people who are calling this the October surprise or who suggest that this was 'released' by Bush in any way are off the mark - if that were true, that part of the tape wouldn't have been released. The timing was deliberate, but only by OBL's intent.
Of course Rove/Bush will the spin the hell out of it, they're masters at it. And Kerry's people are obviously less skilled in the art of spin.
Just can't wait until Tuesday.
 
 
+#'s, - names
17:11 / 30.10.04
Yes, complete genius on Bush's part, he obviously controls Bin Laden & Al Jazeera television, and instead of dragging bin laden out and displaying him to the world as a prisoner, he gets him to record a video tape instead, reminding the people of america and the world how he has failed on his war on terrorism. Bush is a total diabolical mastermind!
 
 
ibis the being
19:55 / 31.10.04
Polls Show Bin Laden Tape Not Affecting Voters

According to the public opinion polls, the tape isn't swaying voters in either direction. Which, really, two days from voting, not much should.
 
 
rizla mission
09:32 / 01.11.04
So aside from it's relevence to the election, isn't this the first time al-Qaeda have directly admitted responsibility for the 9/11 attacks....?

And yeah, the tragedy of all this is that given the current gutter level of political debate in the US, OBL sounds like a pretty reasonable chap, and proabably less bloodthirsty than either candidate. Hell, I'd vote for him - he raises some good points in that transcript and he's only coldbloodedly slaughtered like, what, a couple of thousand people, and hasn't actually destroyed the infrastructure of any countries yet..
 
 
Sir Real
11:29 / 01.11.04
Just thought someone should point out that Bush has been responcible for far more civilian casualties than Bin-Laden. I think this tape will end up hurting Bush more among those craven 'undecided voters.' There are no good scare quotes in the message and he comes across as more reasonble, not to mention sane, than Bush.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:11 / 01.11.04
I actually think the new Bin Laden tape works AGAINST Bush, as most Americans remember that Bush promised catching Bin Laden was a priority, even if he denied his later denial of same at the debate.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:18 / 01.11.04
>> So aside from it's relevence to the election, isn't this the first time al-Qaeda have directly admitted responsibility for the 9/11 attacks....?

YES. Specifically, it's the first time Bin Laden has personally said "I planned this, I [and my people] did this." Many mainstream news articles have pointed out and emphasized this fact. He vaguely alluded to his approval of it and hinted that maybe some people in his organization were responsible, but never really said "I did it" or even "al Qaeda did it."

Again, looks bad for Bush, I think...
 
 
Ganesh
13:34 / 01.11.04
I suspect the Bin Laden tape will work (weakly) in Bush's favour, as the image of the architect of 9/11 will serve to re-evoke the fear/anger responses on which his (essentially logic-free) election schtick is based - and anything too nuanced will be forgotten in the rush for reassurance that everyone'll be 'protected' from the big scary man with the beard (not God, the other one).
 
 
eye landed
09:48 / 02.11.04
interesting to see ubl rehashing micheal moore zingers to apparently win over the anti-bush crowd...while some in that same crowd claim hes been in bed with bush all along. if only the 'anybody but bush' campaign had caught on to voting for sammy lad. somebody write it in!

does this mean a vote for kerry is a vote for terrorists because the terrorists agree with anti-bush paranoiacs? ('youre either with us or youre against us'.) or does it mean a vote for bush is a vote for terrorists because theyre all global megalomaniac assholes anyway? no wonder jfk went off! barbarians indeed!
 
 
Baz Auckland
10:42 / 02.11.04
I like how Get Your War On put it:

"Dennis Hastert said Al-Qaeda is gonna attack us to influence the election because they want John Kerry to win. The guy has, like, such an incisive mind. But then why did al-Qaeda strike on 9/11, two years before the Democrats had even picked their nominee? Or was that a late endorsement of Al Gore?"
 
  
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