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Liber MMM

Trijhaos

11:59 / 15.11.01

I've been working with Liber MMM for the past few weeks and am about to start with the image concentration exercise. Now is being able to hold your eyes open for 15 minutes without blinking really necessary? I would think something like that would be damaging to the eyes.
The reason given in the text as to why a magician needs to hold his eyes open for that long sounds like something out of a fantasy novel.

cusm

14:30 / 15.11.01

It shouldn't be, as long as your eyes water themselves enough and you're not straining on something overly bright. You'll go into retnal fatigue after a couple of minutes, which causes mild hallucinations. You'll also get roving black spots as your receptors have enough and shut off to purge, which is a concentration in itself to mentally correct for to avoid visual distortion. Yes, it can be done. The mind naturally tries to fill in the blanks anyway. So, its a matter of sufficient focus on the image to override the parts of your eyes that shut off so as to keep the image.

Under moderate lighting, I don't believe this should cause any actual damage that a minute of blinking won't correct. But then again, I'm not a doctor, so don't listen to me

Trijhaos

19:52 / 15.11.01

I can hold it for around 5 minutes but I still don't see a real point in it. If I remember the text correctly, it says you may have to hold the gaze of a demon or some summoned spirit for hours at a time? It sounds like something out of a superstition filled medieval grimoire. You know the like. "Lest thee get careless know that thy gaze must be unwavering for if thy eyes shouldst droop or close, the demon may steal thy eternal soul".

Mordant Carnival

09:11 / 16.11.01

The whole "keep your eyes open for 15 mins" thing sounds to me like a way of getting into some kind of altered state thru pure discomfort. It's not an unusual approach, being pretty similar to a lot of traditional scrying techniques, and from what I know I wouldn't think you could hurt your eyes by doing it. You might want to keep some good antiseptic eyewash on hand forafterwards tho'- this is sure to irritate your eyes which might lead to an infection.

Having said all that I haven't tried it myself. Not the whole 15 minutes, anyhow.

penitentvandal

13:29 / 16.11.01

Yeah, I can do it for a while, but fifteen minutes sounds excessive. I think Carroll exaggerates quite a bit to put people off, or for dramatic effect, or just to show how hard he is, or something.

My reading of it was that the image concentration is needed so you can focus properly on sigils if you're charging them. Which does help.

cusm

15:07 / 16.11.01

Yea, its almost more of an excercise in avoiding alterted states by focusing the will. Its like lifting weights.

ghadis

09:17 / 17.11.01

Theres a story about William Burroughs (who by the way was IOT and yes did his MMM) and Brion Gysin taking it in turns to stare into a plate glass mirror for twenty four hours at a time. Talking some years later about this he said it was an exaggeration but they did have marathon sessions with the aid of No Doz and they brought about some physical in his body. People would come up and say 'whats wrong with your hands?'. He had 'tenticles' popping out of his fingures and other people commented on it!!!

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