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Tantric Pornography

  
 
Mug Chum
02:17 / 17.10.04
Heil posters and readers!

What I want to know is: Why isn't there any Tantric Pornography around the net and circulating blogs and sites of magick subjects? I mean really... The kind of pornography of Shae Fox you know? Voudoun Cum Shots etc etc etc...

It's time to make some kind of porn that explore the relation between viewer and actors (Meta-porn?) and adds those little GM things from Flex Mentallo and Invisibles (where barriers between reader and comic are broken). Make somethin' people don't expect: turn porn into art, or purely magickal interaction (these things can already exist, but requires good imagination and efficient practice of magick... but in a digested and pre-fabricated form like a game, film or so...)

"Uh yeah! I can feel my heart chakra... uh it's so good, baby...". Why the hell not? "You can f--k her for a hour but you can't come". What's masturbation if not extracting ideas, images and feelings from "other places, worlds and dimensions". Don't you guys remember that wanking scene of Wallace (or is it Wally?) from Flex Mentallo?

It'd be pretty cool if got mainstreamed. Instead a bunch of fast ejaculators who treat women like tit-meat, we'll have a generation raised by pornographick-yoga.

Give your ideas.
hugs.
 
 
LykeX
03:04 / 17.10.04
I'm wondering if people would notice at all. Maybe in some kind of subliminal way.
Either way, how would you do it? I mean what precisely would you do? Like your voudoun cum shot. What the hell does that mean?
 
 
Mug Chum
04:13 / 17.10.04
Hi, LykeX.

Well "voudoun cum shot" is something from THE INVISIBLES last issue. Grant invented, but I don't know if he gave any deeper thought to it (I think he might have, since all those themes in the marquis edition with Edith and those Shae Fox porn from 2012...). Like said in Flex Mentallo (if I can remember straight), "welcome to the futuristic comic book. Fully Interaction between reader and carachters are possible and activaded." That frame of idea is strong in Flex Mentallo and in the last Invisibles Volume. Of course, it predominatly runs on the imaginative criation on the mind of the reader, but given a certain solid ground, a guide to it. Like Finnegan's Wake. Like self-hipnotzing to invoke some pop figure (or whatever kicks your head), or using the telly to divination, the imagination and concentration used on a porn-trip 'breaking through to the other side'. Of course, that's possible (the very root of the concept of Situationist's "derive"), but what about a full scale imagination experience with already some solid ground to walk on?

It basically runs on the imagination. Like the very act of masturbation, is the extraction of images and feelings from the imagination to an ends in the "material world"... But that's mere masturbation and no useful alone.

There has to be some kind of "map" to it, some solid ground to the experience, so the person won't drift aimless through random emotions and ideas... Like movies, comics, music, video-games, books (add what you like), they "manipulate" the person (when that person is commited to experience that art through the initial proposition of that work), it guides the viewer through out a suspension of disbelief very much like magick. Why not use a game or a porno-interactive (or both together) to guide a person to turn on the switch on some chakras (an example)? And it doesn't have to be subliminal at all... But we have to be very clear on this: it's Tantric Porn, not Tantric Sex... it would be more of a tantric-astral-videogame-ritual-working than a tantric experience with a loved one, with a woman you're touching and looking in the eye (or does someone thinks media can simulate something like that? Let's leave to the engineers...).

It always starts as a "meta-something", doens't? But I would like ideas... hormones, drugs, sex-tecno-gadgets, i dont know... Whenever I read those mentions of "Juice of Three Lemons" and "Thousand Petalled Lotus 2", it really fires up my imagination of what those could be... a game? a film? both (they say more and more that future of films is the integration of the movie vehicle with the imersion and interaction of videogames...)? How far can we use the imagination to create a videogame that brings someone to nirvana? Maybe we don't need those "Ubik"-like cans of the "Invisibles Game", but only the imersion and interaction we have right now on our disposal, without the concentrarion of a zen master or anything...

It's time to see this media as a potential for extreme full scale artwork. Forget those bang-bang-boom and "nerdy" games (do we have to mention the degree of imersion some of these kids are going through while playing some internet-RPG game?) for a while (not trying to dis them...).

well i think i said to much
(i haven't said enough...)
and maybe i haven't even answered LykeX's question... i hope somehow i did.

ideas folks. c'mon...
 
 
Unconditional Love
06:50 / 17.10.04
The mode of worship of Goddess Tripura Sundari "consists in the worship of a picture of the female organ drawn in the centre of another consisting of a representation of nine such organs, the whole of which forms the Sricakra. The pictures are drawn on a Bhurja leaf or on a piece of silken cloth or on a gold leaf.
With reference to this worship it must be observed that there are two classes of Saktas; (1) Kaulika and (2) Samayin. The former worships the gross material object, while the latter have recourse to imagery. The worship of the pictures just mentioned is resorted to by ancient (purva) Kaula, while the modern (uttara) Kaulas worship the organ of a living beautiful woman. The Kaulas worship their Goddess by offering to her and themselves using wine, flesh, honey, fish and such other things.

The Samayins of course abstain from such practices. There are even Brahmanas who secretly profess the doctrines of the Sakta school and worship the Goddess Tripura Sundari in accordance with the Purva - Kaula or Uttara-Kaula way. There are no distinctions of caste when the worship of the Bhairavicakra is going on. Men of all castes become Brahmanas, but they resume their own caste when the worship is over." 8

*The worship of the pictures just mentioned is resorted to by ancient (purva) Kaula, while the modern (uttara) Kaulas worship the organ of a living beautiful woman.*

so you want to resserect the ancient perva kewla sect, is that it?

eros gnosis technosis.
 
 
*
13:16 / 17.10.04
le sigh.
 
 
Unconditional Love
15:46 / 17.10.04
seriously.heh.
 
 
Mug Chum
16:13 / 17.10.04
Well, in a certain way yes. Is a appropriation of the "simulacrum" (in a deranged, simplified manner), something chaoists are quite used to.

But the idea of tantric pornography can't be only some picture of some LA porn star, only body-painted and with more arms. Maybe it could be a starting point, but doesn't do much... That's mere porn. And mastubators around the world and around america aren't exactly what we can call magis. It'd be great in a sense of people involved in magick, they'd be getting concepts and accomplishing whatever they can imagine. But it'd be cool using these practices on forms of media today. Has anyone heard about voodoo ritual theater? That's a nice example (altough is a not mediated interaction).

what's next? yoga-pills?

Has anyone seen that game called "Psychonaut"? Is there any relation with Carroll's book etc?
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
02:11 / 18.10.04
There's a Bardo Pond track called "Tantric Porno"
 
 
Aertho
02:36 / 18.10.04
Christ. Okay. So what is it you're really asking for here? It seems you want to make the historically divine more accessible to you in your present cultural climate. And the emphasis on it's apropriation and application in more "everyday events" smack of the crimes of intent brought up and examined in the Cultural Apropriation thread.

That's cool you feel that you want the current climate to be more concerned with its more image-rich spiritual past. Pat on the back to you. Way to expand your compassion past the hegemonic technolopy!

But what a lot of people want is for you to have a geniune interest and understanding of whatever the hell you want to splice up.

Like, if you KNEW what Tantric pornography meant, you'd probably see that ALL porn is already tantric. that's the simple nature of tantra means looking at every aspect of the universe asa spiritual message, and porn is what porn is: an ephemeral communication meant to generate a fantasy. It's just people think of porn on part of this polemic morality play, where porn is this Sick Sick Thing that ought to be saved.

You can't put more arms onto Briana Banks and make her MORE godly -she's already been rendered an image that will create erections across the world. She's get boys off around the world and give them something to be happy about. That's more than half the nuns in San Franscisco do.

Anybody want to help me out on the Voodoo angle?
 
 
Mug Chum
03:43 / 18.10.04
hey mate. is it me, or are you truly pissed at my post?

Well in no way I wish to bring this to more of "everyday events" (that would certainly turn all sorts of mystical matters into a lazy-simplified-nostalgic-escapist-dead-pseudo-spiritual-culture, ie the hippies). I don't want a "current climate" based on people talking about chakras 24-7, neither i have the desperate wish to see more trees everywhere and culture "concerned with its more image-rich spiritual past"; i'm happy with mine climate, I'm only imagining forms of 'magick-driven entertainement'. I'm more inclined to think in terms of an experience that has something to do with a mediated form of Ritual Voodoo Threater or Umbanda Theater (which is really the one I know. From reading, Ritual Voodoo Theater is done in a very similar, if not the same, way than Umbanda's).

The "Briana Banks and Jenna xxxperience" surely manages to create the masturbational fantasy for boys around the world that they're with her. But that's mainly it. And in a poor and dead way (no i'm not trying to bad-mouth porn or masturbation, keep your pants off people and so will I ).


And I'm not suggesting any "splicing up", only finding similar structures and potentials in what we got today.

Mediated (and therefore, even though it seems a paradox, more genuine and true) experiences. I thought it would have more to do with porn and videogames because of the very nature of it's enjoyment (it's viewer vulnerability and imersion, it's already formed 'relationship' with the content, it's more "hands on" approach etc...).

And jaysis, i know it's out there and probably makes no sense and i'm probably not saying it right (i still don't know where Chad got the impression that what i'm really asking for is a current trend/culture/society full of spiritual drivel...). but thoughts and ideas'd be cool.
 
 
Mug Chum
03:47 / 18.10.04
oh, sorry... "entertainement" is a dead awful word (little bit too "E! channel" for the ocasion). i don't know... the best word here i could find it'd be "experience", really. for itself and it's ends.
 
 
Unconditional Love
07:27 / 18.10.04
i was trying to suggest that you may find some inspiration in tantric architecture of the yogini temples for example or perhaps the roman or greek representations of ecstatic sex. the purva kaula sect struck a cord with what you were suggesting, its actually very difficult to find more than a few paragraphs on them to understand them in there cultural context. (online at least).

the cultural appropriation of the sumerian culture, would that be possible? or harrapan?
 
 
Unconditional Love
08:41 / 18.10.04
can you culturally appropriate what some people term as "dead" cultures?
 
 
Mug Chum
16:22 / 18.10.04
only got the chance now to read the thread on cultural appropiation... damn... there were some good discussions.

but i still don't think it's there where i want to point the idea.

And, wolfangels, thanks. i'll be looking into it. tks for the suggestion.
 
 
Mug Chum
16:26 / 18.10.04
and what'd be 'dead' cultures? specify a little bit...
 
 
*
19:05 / 18.10.04
I don't give a flying fuck where you "want to point the idea", my point was it's fucking appropriative in the worst possible way. So go educate yourself about cultural appropriation before you start talking about making pornos about your take on subaltern groups' religious beliefs and practices. Okay? Thank you.
 
 
Unconditional Love
19:50 / 18.10.04
in a neo tantric fashion hasnt this already been done, arent a lovers guide to the karma sutra etc etc already there? In the context of ancient tantrism i dont think it would be possible to create porn from it, at least i cant envision it. but i do think the architecture of ecstatic cultres and artifacts could be inspirational, would you consider such art to be pornographic? or is it erotic?

for example creating a shri yantra from female pubis, in my opinion would be inappropriate, but recently a shri yantra was created out of hand bags by an indian women, i believe, is that inappropriate?

erotic imagery plays a part in ancient ecstatic cultures as much as it does in modern ecstatic cultures, the term tantric,which means a treatise, is a very misused term in modern culture and has become equated to mean spirtual sexuality rather than what it actually is, sexuality playing a relatively small role in ancient tantric practice.

perhaps this thread would be better off entitled, populist neo tantric pornograhpy? or post modern ecstatic eroticism?
 
 
Mug Chum
20:42 / 18.10.04
Hello, my lovely-lovely pissed off friend.

And it is with great anger that I say:
So stop reading this! Why are you still reading?! Why are you still reading?! Why are you still reading?! huh?! huh?! huh?! why you care for this thread?

what's this (liberal?) guilt relating to cultures you feel that you have screwed/ are screwing? I mean, why these guilt trips whenever it's convenient to ego? This ain't the thread for the morality play-thingy-chewing-toy. I'm trying to imagine how this "tantric porn"/"mediated, pre-fabricated genuine experience" could be. I haven't taken any nude pictures of any goddess and I ain't selling any.

Do you actually feel offended about all this? Relax, I haven't hired any actresses yet. Miss Briana Banks is still training in Kathmandu. I'm trying to go for something abstract here.

Maybe it would be an appropiation on a cheap level, but that's why this is a goddamn forum for people giving ideas, suggestions and reprovals. This is a abstract forum and I haven't announced any porno-tantra selling website. I'm asking and wondering, not making a affirmation on products i'm offering.

well goddamn it, look at me now... you made me want to go to U.S. and support Bush with that little name of yours

-------------------------------*--------------------------
Hey'a Wolf!

Actually, is a good name. Is there any way possible for me to change this goddamn thread's name. Seems it acted like a shocker.

Well, kama sutra isn't what I had in mind. Like a lot of people were saying in that thread, most of it i feel as a lazy pursue, simplified form of study (that all fetish for the exotic, which simply stays and stagnates there...).

That's something important: would it be possible for such mixture, this form of syncretism...??? would porn tantra be possible? Would a mediated Umbanda ritual be possible (remember those preachers blessing people through the radio? LOL) Maybe that would depend on a level of imagination and the degree of interaction/ imersion of the vehicle. But even so, for a case such as tantra, it'd be pretty hard. It's tough to imagine.

And the definition/ delimitation between porn and erotic here in a mediated vehicle, seemed to me as unimportant. But come to think of, that might be a big differential when contextualized with something like tantrism.


>> but recently a shri yantra was created out of hand bags by an indian women, i believe, is that inappropriate?

inappropiate in what way?

Maybe this thread would have been better called "radio blessings"... that dude wouldn't be so offended since he takes me as a christian.
 
 
Mug Chum
20:46 / 18.10.04
and i haven't found anything on purva kaula, mate... hard to get.
 
 
*
03:45 / 19.10.04
No fear. That was my last post.


...


You're imagining this one.
 
 
Unconditional Love
08:27 / 19.10.04
sexual imagination is a powerful process.
 
  
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