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Spider Magic

 
 
iamus
00:36 / 16.10.04
Spiders have made me one of their totem humans. I consider myself a (wannabe) writer, so this makes sense to me. They seem to reveal themselves at appropriate times regarding my writing and magic. For a while now spider syncronicity has been multiplying in my life and so have their numbers setting up webs outside my window (which I use for some magical work). I was even privileged enough recently to witness one of these spiders catch, subdue, wrap and store it's prey no more than an inch or two from my face. I know I should be doing more to honour them and work with them but I'm not too sure where to begin. The spider is a complex animal that I find at once fascinating and morbid. I reckon I could have a really constructive relationship with them, but they're not the sort of entity I'd like to piss off.

I've had a few ideas for working with them. The obvious one would be to continue writing, but this'll happen regardless. I thought maybe sticking little sigils to the webs might be one way to communicate (as traditional sigilisation has never worked for me), but I think I'd have to counter that with an offering of some nice juicy flies or something. Seeing as we're moving out of spider season, I also think constructing my own web as a fetish for dedications might be a good idea (I anticipate that building a decent looking web would be hard, no matter how easy they make it look).
I read a very short lived thread (there they are again) about them where grant gives links that lead me to Anansi, I like the sound of him and would be interested in getting to know him better (Just after reading that, I read a new post in the "wtf is a magician" thread where Mordant mentions him too, so maybe he's interested as well).

Does anybody here have any experience working with Spiders. I have web (and again) resources dealing with them, more of these are welcome, but specifically I'm looking for those who have direct experience or even just suggestions for working with them.
Can anyone help?
 
 
LVX23
06:06 / 16.10.04
You can divide spiders into roughly two groups: web builders and hunters.

Honor the web builders - watch out for the hunters.

And know that both would happily eat you.
 
 
eddie thirteen
06:56 / 16.10.04
I love spiders. I'm a writer, too, and have had similar synchronicities where they pop up (or plop into my lap) at times of indecision and block, and sometimes (anyhow, it feels this way) at moments when I feel like they're just giving a little encouragement. As far as working with them goes, I suggest writing when their presence seems to prompt you, and...well...not killing the admittedly spooky little guys (you'd be surprised how many people do -- very few of them writers, I'd bet). Spiders, like writers, do their best work when left to their own devices, though a friendly comment or two probably wouldn't hurt anything.

And actually, jumping spiders (who are hunters) are not only the cutest spiders you will ever see (they have, unlike other arachnids, two -- only two -- great big eyes, prominent enough for you to see them quite easily...can't miss 'em, in fact...and there's something kinda puppy-dog about 'em), but are extremely friendly to humans. This is not to say that they WOULDN'T eat you if you were, say, all of a sudden very very little; but, as proportions stand, jumping spiders seem to exhibit a great deal of curiosity (and no fear) towards gigantic creatures who could squish them. The one I had in my kitchen for a while would rear up on his back legs when he saw me, move his mandibles (you can see those, too...big faces), and wave his front legs, puppy-dog eyes on me all the while. I found out later that extending a hand in his direction would probably have led to him jumping up and climbing on me -- jumping spiders don't bite humans, but they do like to explore our topography when given the chance. So some hunters are benign -- to us, at least....
 
 
Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown
18:33 / 16.10.04
Could be size there, eddie. Humans may well be big enough that spiders either know they're shmucked if they try anything, or they're hardwired and don't realize that humans are potential food. Then again, they may well just have tried in the past and passed down the story of how humans taste bad, or have too thick flesh, and that flies make better meals anyway.

It's weird. In the past few years, I have been utterly cured of insect-related phobias I used to have except in the cases of centipedes (that was a problem with a spirit, won't go near the buggers) and wasps (not bees, just wasps). Spiders I've become more and more comfortable with. They're nice critters, once you realize that most can't hurt you any more than a fly can.

With the spinners and the hunters, I'd think look at that as the essential dichotomy of spider society: the builders and the warriors. Construction and destruction. Order and chaos. Smooth and crunchy. Etc. Both have powerful aspects to invoke, and undoutedly powerful spirits that represent them.

However, like all things, it's playing with fire. The fire can do many things: it can create, it can destroy, it can purify, it can sully, but in the end you need to watch it because even if its used for the best intent it can still burn you if you're not careful. Which is sort of the way that all things in magic go. Caveat magus and all that junk.
 
 
iamus
22:11 / 16.10.04
Web-builders particularly fascinate me, there is nothing quite like an intricate well-spun web (particularly orb webs, the way they spiral on themselves) and the fanatical and instinctive maintenence by it's owner. I find something inherently mystical about how they build and rule their own little reality between other objects. I'm also constantly baffled by the way they somehow manage to spin threads between things implausibly far from one another. It's also happened more than once that on waking up, I've found objects that I was using in workings criss-crossed with webbing, not a spider still in sight.

Spiders are pretty solitary, they love the loner thing, but are they not also seen as totems of communication and being at the center of, well, webs of influence? I remember in the invisibles King Mob uses a technique from the Couvesomething (been a while) Voodoo group to dream himself through time using a spider loa or totem of some sort. Not something to fuck about without understanding, but it's got me thinking as to how the imagery could be adapted for similar goals. Also in modern times, it would seem to me that the internet would be the spider's thing, being as it is the world wide web and all.

I've had an odd relationship with them. When I was a wee guy, spiders didn't scare me a bit. I used to always have to get rid of them for my mum. When I got a bit older, I developed an unprovoked, irrational fear of them that took me a few years to get over. Now I love them more than ever. The more I think about it, the more spider memories I have from being a kid, some directly tied to the whole creativity issue, so I think this has being going on much longer than I've been aware of it. I think it's about time I tried to attempt a dialogue.
 
 
Joetheneophyte
13:39 / 17.10.04
Stanislav Grof wrote a book called 'Beyond the Brain', that dealt with the psychiatric aspects of birth and potential 'other lives' and re-incarnation experiences (he did not assert objctive reality to Reincarnation but mentioned that it might be important to the client/patient and was often effective in his treatment)

as a bit of background:

Grof is a psychiatrist who used to treat his patients with LSD and as a result, claimed much reduced timescales in accessing and reframing traumatic experieneces............including re-living birth experiences and even previous lives ....as human and even animal

Grof claimed that his patients would often after comparatively very few sessions, reach a stage of contentment and peace that was rare and very long winded in traditional talking only therapy. He even claimed more success than Orgone or Reichain body centred therapies

basically, (and I am not doing him any justice here) he claimed that the heirarchy of effectiveness was something like

Talking (cognitive behaviourist etc therapies)
Bodywork
His own LSD type therapy

each successively led to deeper insights and the most effective and pervasive changes could be reached by going straight for the trans-personal experiences, which LSD therapy allowed (Cary Grant received LSD therapy from a different Dr and claimed it was a wonderful and effective experience(S))

Anyway, what I am longwindedly getting at here is this. Grof claims that when his clients approached their birth experiences in the course of therapy, they would often envisage or experience, the senseation of a spider that threatened to consume them

Grof allged that in the course of a difficult birth, dependant upon the energy of the baby and other factors far to complex for me to do justice, the psyche stored trauma that he was re-assessing with his therapeutic method

Grof abandoned LSD when the law forbade him to continue but he still advocates rapid breathing techniques, accompanied with certain music, to evoke similar effects in people and therefore access and reframe these traumatic memories or mental impasses

Now me....i am shit scared of spiders. I will never kill one if I can help it as I know they do a great job reducing the fly population etc and have a right to life and al that but this scared the poop out of me
The thought of seeing/sensing the all devouring spider was a bit too much for this coward to take

I know this isn't really what your thread was about and I sincerely aopologise for my lack of language skills in articulating this matter but I thought as a side note it might be of interest to you. Grof believed the spider represented the repressed/pre-verbal fear of the vagina and the threat of death during the birth process (again if I am not misquoting him)
We could similarly look at it as a Spider spirit or THE spider spirit that we pass through on our journey from one life to the next


Whatever, the successful resolution of this experience, often left Grof's patients with a new zest for life

whilst rambling and disjointed, I hope there is something of interest to you in this drink fueled and poorly written post
 
 
Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown
16:58 / 17.10.04
Grof believed the spider represented the repressed/pre-verbal fear of the vagina and the threat of death during the birth process (again if I am not misquoting him)

Eh, I dunno. That seems a bit too Freudian. The vagina as a spider? Seems just a touch interpretive.

We could similarly look at it as a Spider spirit or THE spider spirit that we pass through on our journey from one life to the next

Perhaps a representation that we're eaten and then shat out as the web of the universe? Sort of a suggestion as to the interconnectivity of everyone and everything? Hell, now I'm getting pretty interpretive...and Freudian. Oh bother.
 
 
Joetheneophyte
17:08 / 17.10.04
no ...sorry I did say i was doing him a huge injustice (it is years since I actually read the book properly)

Sorry the Spider represents (or might represent) the birth process......anhhialation....whatever

Grof isn't too hung up on this and admits it is all speculative. I only inlcuded this to show how even in psychiatry or more accurately some fringe psychiatry....what we practitioners of magick might call Spirits or representations, have been found to be of importance and can have therapeutic worth if handled correctly

Personally, I am scared shitless of spiders. number one in my things to avoid list. Now I have considered doing some magickal work to address this and hopefully put me on a better footing with our eight legged friends (footing/eight legs....sorry unintentional pun)

Anyway, ig you can get hold of Grof's book, it is an interesting read. Holotropic Breathwork that he advocates also scares me (brave soul aren't I!!!!!!?????? )

spoke to a doctor of my acquiantance and he didn't like the sound of it as he believed that the oxygen levels of the blood could be seriously depleted by this action. I will get flamed on here fr bringing this up again as there are practitioners on here and braver souls than I who have done this and swear by the effects and no harm they experienced. As I said, I am a coward and the thought of even short term oxygen deprivation scares me too much to try Holotropic Breathwork or the work (similar in style) of Leonard Orr

As for contacting the Spider Spirit I will attempt to do that sometime in the near future as being a five foot eleven 200 pound guy, it is embarrassing being scared of little tiny spiders and I know they (in this country anyway) pose no serious threat other than making me suffer with a dodgy sphincter
 
 
LykeX
22:33 / 17.10.04
I just thought I would add a link to the thread about Holotropic Breathwork and ask anyone who has more information to post it there.
 
 
Joetheneophyte
09:47 / 18.10.04
With all my talk about Spider Spirits or THE spider Spirit yesterday, a funny (magickal?) coincedence happened today

a guy in work who knows I like comics, brought me a figurine that he wanted me to identify. He is a part time toy dealer and he handed me a skeletal figure that he thought might be Skeletor from He-Man

this skeleton was unusual in that it has eight arms!

So here I am mentioning getting in touch with Spider spirits and 18 hours later (after reading an Invisibles comic that had lots of Skeletal fgures in it...the issue where the young fanny went to gain his powers and the voodou guy (Jim Crowe) was talking to other skeletal figures)
I get handed an EIGHT ARMED SKELETON!!!


Bizarre or what!

I'm quite blown away by the coincedence/Magickal occurrence
 
 
Joetheneophyte
09:50 / 18.10.04
Oh by the way, I am going to use this figurine in my ritual when I will be attempting to contact the Spider Spirit

pretty weird I thought all in all
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
10:28 / 18.10.04
I find the fact that you have a freind who is a part time toy dealer, and occasionally brings you little gifts of eight armed skeletons, a far creepier prospect than all this talk of spiders. Brrrrr.... When he comes to visit you, does he paint his face white and speak in a really high pitched musical voice?
 
 
sine
13:58 / 18.10.04
A longish spider story:

A number of years ago, during a more youth-and-LSD addled phase of my life, I decided on an ambitious weekend course of action: five hits of good acid, spread out one every thirty minutes. Maximum peak time, very intense. I forget what the intended goal of this was.

At any rate, about two hours in, I decided that the best thing to do, what with being in my parents' living room in the middle of the night and them being asleep upstairs and all, would be to chill the f**k out. This I decided to do by reading comics (Dan Clowes' Like a Velvet Glove Cast in Iron of all things). It actually worked. It calmed me so much so that I was totally unalarmed when I saw a large black spider go scuttling by along the wainscotting.

This was one of those impressively limbed, svelte, hairless big bastards, the kind with a legspan of an odd inch. Now in the tropics, this might be no cause for wonderment, but in Canada, this sort of thing being rare, most people would freak at the sight of this creature running through their home. Luckily, I've always had something of an affintiy for arachnids, and, with my mind supercharged on indole rings, I decided to investigate.

First, scooping it up, I ascertained that it wasn't in fact an hallucinogenia, but was a real live spider. Then I spent a minute talking to it, letting it run along my arm, and generally grinning in marvel over the beauty of this animal. Finally, issuing a whispered "salutations to your people!" I let it run away into a heating vent, and returned to my surreal comic, thinking nothing more of it.

That was, until about fifteen minutes later, when I noticed something in my peripheral vision. Up over the top rim of my glasses, motion. So I looked up.

Now, by this point, the trip had stabilized, for whatever reason, into a pretty coherent and realistic environment. No melting walls, no undersea adventures. With the exception of heavy tracers, and my mind boiling a mile a minute, the living room looked more or less like it did out of dreamtime.

Except for the giant spider standing immediately in front of me.

It had eight legs, but was standing on the rear two, and weaving the other six in a strange rhythmic undulating motion (which I compare to the dance of Hindu gods). It was about seven feet tall, shiny, thin. It did not look hostile. It wore around its neck masses of gold jewelry, Mr. T level bling, and a gold crown, and all of the accessories had a strange motiv which struck me at the time as being similar to Aztec or Polynesian. It was silent.

I looked at it for a moment, shook my head, and went back to reading.

A minute later, I looked up and it was still there- standing, rhythmic, silent. Now let me clarify: this was not some pseudo-hallucinogenic, wavering apparition against exploding technicolor starburst background. It was the most solid-looking, real-looking psychotropic vision I have ever had, my peyote experiences notwithstanding. And it was just there, in my parents' living room, looking at me, but making no other efforts to gain my attention. I sighed, and set down my comic, and, trying not to wake up my family (who would have been unappreciative of my 'guest'), asked quietly, "How can I help you?"

What followed remains one of the strangest, most ineffable experiences I've ever had (and I've had more than a few). I can only describe it as the founding of a sort-of telepathic compact, a kind of spritual treaty being offered to me by an earthly envoy of the Spider Gods. I'm fairly certain there was some talking, and I know there was some gestural communication, but I remain strangely blocked on the actual details of the exchange. At any rate, after an odd hour of this, the spiderprince vanished, and I returned to my comic.

The weird thing is, after years of telling this story at parties and to friends, it only just occured to me this summer to try and return to the experience from an active magickal perspective.

So, starting in July, I've been doing a series of 'workings, teasing out bits and pieces in contact with my 'ambassador', which calls itself Mnyras. I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has similar experiences, or any kind of suggestions on the best way to approach this type of 'work.

Interestingly, in contrast to what was said above, I've been told that web-spinners are the ones for me to be cautious of. Hunters are powerful, swift and deadly, but straightforward. Web-builders are cunning, deceitful and binding. As the patrons of language, they're demiurgic. Not to generalize of course...that was just what I got. Any reason given for the other view?
 
 
Joetheneophyte
14:47 / 18.10.04
WOW

That was impressive

I only ever had two or two and a half trips at any one time and I never experienced more than the undulating walls type hallucination etc

(my most vivid was looking at my friends carpet and it looking like an ariel view of a pink rainforest....quite beautiful)

anyway, thanks for that story ....fantastic

I wonder whether there is any competition or bad feeling between the various spider species, ie do the webspinners and the hunters actually like each other and do they share a common leader or authority figure

great post and you have given me much room for thought

If I saw a seven foot tall spider, I would most likely shit myself to death
 
 
LVX23
15:46 / 18.10.04
Yeah, web spinners can certainly be some tricky bastards. I was being a bit generalistic with my original statement. Very interesting thread though. I recently engaged the magickal representation of a particularly evil tv news outlet and my first contact (after a week of prep work) found me facing off with a giant black spider. The second contact left me sick for 2 weeks, envenomated. This one was a hunter.
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
16:46 / 18.10.04
Yay for threads I like. Joy and such. And yay for 7 foot tall spiders. Big ones are my favorites.

As someone might guess, given my name, I have a certain connection with the little fellas. In fact, one might go so far as to say that my entire magical system of workings is based around them. So, for speculation, laughs, or to help out (whichever), I'm going to tell of some of my own encounters with spiders (this is going to be a long post guys and gals. sorry). My own personal thoughts/opinions/beliefs on their totemic significance is going to bleed in here, so feel free to disagree with me on it if you like.

My earliest memory involving spiders is from when I was 6 or 7. The school I went to was coming out of a period of a lot of gang violence, so even though they were starting to get tighter security and stuff, there was plenty of bullying going on. So anyway, these three kids were beating me up and stuff, kicking me while I was on the ground. All the sudden, I was gone. Like I stepped out for a moment, and watched everything on the television. And I saw myself on the ground, and then I went red. Just when these guys thought I was finished, that's when I attacked them. I kicked the first one in the balls, jumped on him, and started punching his face. The other two backed away, a little bit freaked by the change in events. After beating this kid, I got up, looked at him, and then I looked out at myself, at the me who was watching me. It was like I was starring right at myself, and that's when I knew. That's when I realized who was. The Spyder. The hunter. "You're never stronger than when your enemy thinks you are weak." I had surprised him, trapped him. I couldn't have lost.
I can't really explain why I "knew" I was connected with spiders. I just did. All of the sudden, I started liking the little guys. I got really annoyed and pissed when ever anyone stepped on a spider (I still do). And sometimes... sometimes I'd drift off, and watch myself again. Especially when things got bad. And Spyder would take over.

Luckily, by the time I got into magic as reality rather than magic as fiction, I had mellowed out a bit. A lot of my magical experiences had revolved around webs and stuff. Time travel, insertion into different universes, access to information I shouldn't know, all these things revolve around spiders. I'm met up with Arachne, or Mahla Kali, or Anasai or whatever, the Queen Spider, many atime. We have a relationship worked out. I accept that I am a child if the spider (which does explain some of the bizarre circumstances with my birth, but that's another story...), I pay the spider homage and protect it when I can. In return, I get all the things that being a child of the spider brings with it.

(Here's where we enter my personal conjecture on them) Spiders don't eat their prey like we eat ours. The spiders prey is captured, and their body fluid, their blood, their life essence, is consumed by the spider. Spiders are vampires, literally. They consume the blood, and with that, the thoughts and memories, of their prey. I think totemically spiders have a single group mind, like some insects. All the thoughts and knowledge that spiders have are collected at the same metaphysical source, and therefore all the knowledge of any prey they have ever had is stored their as well. This explains why I sometimes will know something I have no reason to know, clairvoyance and stuff like that. If a spider knows it, I can, theoretically, know it as well. It also explains my odd fascination for vampyrism, although I have no recollection of consuming anyone's blood but my own.

Or I could be full of total bullshit. I don't know. That last paragraph is mostly how I've tried to explain parts of my life that have never made any sense to me. I know this for certain though: Spiders are powerful. I'm somehow connected with them.

And that's all.

(Interestingly enough, today was the first day in almost a month that I had visited Temple. And guess what thread was at the top?)
 
 
iamus
00:55 / 20.10.04
Sine: That's quite an amazing tale. The only acid/spider story I have is that, when tripping in the park, my pal pissed on one once. I wasn't pleased, but chalk that one up for the flies.

Something I've noticed recently is that not only do I get spiders, but spider-man syncronicity increases too. The fucker appears almost as often as they do. I like spider-man and all, but I can't say I've ever bought one of his comics. However, the release of the first movie came at a time of significance in my creative life, as did the second. And he has a liking for showing up unannounced whenever I'm needing something signposted. I've also had magic related dreams where I have been him (possibly because of a sublimated desire to wear spandex, but you know...).

I'm sure the whole "working with superheros" thing has been done to death before so I'm not going to explore it, but I suppose he could be seen as the personification of the human/spider relationship. He's a web-builder and a hunter and a human all rolled into one. Being a superhero, he's also a purely benificial and benign manifestation of the spider spirit.
 
 
eye landed
14:43 / 21.10.04
good thread. one of the sticky ones. twang.

in the greek myth of arachne (from ovid), the girl turns into a spider by concentrating her essence in her hands; eight fingers become eight legs. not surprising, since her skill as a weaver certainly demanded a focus on the hands. (ovid stresses arachnes loss of hair as the first stage in her metamorphosis. i cant help but think both of tarantulas that fling their hair as a defense, and of cancer patients who lose their hair from radiation--since arachnids are quite resistant to radiation. perhaps more importantly, hair and silk threads are cognate but opposed.) thus it is intuitively reasonable and supported by mythical evidence (which is usually good enough for freud, though in the case of spiders he goes off--see the arachne link above) that spiders are hand symbols.

(webbuilding is a good demonstration of variation around archetype. arachne got in trouble for weaving a depection of the gods having sex. as a(n archetypal) spider, she shows the union of the line and the circle as a spiral. the spiral is the useful, sticky part, and the spider walks on the spokes.)

i wonder if grofs patients who visualized spiders were recalling their first experience of the world outside the womb: a pair of giant waggling hands grabbing them and subjecting them to all kinds of indignities (spanking, injection, circumcision, etc). the image is reinforced by stories of spiders and biting and poison, but maybe also by the eerie pleasurable stress of being tickled (which recalls that first bewildering human touch), which is the creepiest aspect of spiders in my humble opinion.

the association between spiders as hands and the www is borne out by one of our primary interfaces being the keyboard, upon which our hands dance, spiderlike. in fact, all (both?) common input devices involve the hands, but that is true of more than just computers. and ws are kind of spidery looking (in addition to being 23).

insight on neural webs and spiders as tools for neural metaprogramming: 'spiders' walk on our brain, outside our common encoded experience--symbols of the individual (brain network) as aggregate of external forces, as well as the entities that mold that aggregate. perhaps even suggesting that the brain is built by the hands (character derives from action).
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
22:53 / 23.10.04
I delved down this road some time ago... I recall...

in parts of Polynesia, the Spider deity serves the role of both trickster and creator. not an unusual doubling up of roles...

In West Africa, Spider Ananse (I think), a trickster hero figure of many tales. In the Southern US states, his name changed to Aunt Nancy, and tricky tales continued...

I spun a web for my ceiling, a single thread running down the East wall to my altar. Inspiration came from this vision:

a giant spider lowers bits of thread down into the double-spiralling arms of our galaxy. at the end of each sits a tiny mirror...

this spider reacted with fear/trepidation upon discovering that I perceived it. both of us relaxed, and I spent the rest of the time (time???) communicating...

maybe it was the spider I saw at a campus at University of Victoria (on VAncouver Island, off the South West Coast of Canada). I watched it rest in its home, as streams of biology an life sciences students whipped buy, piles of textbooks cradled carefully, missing the intricate web on display.

spiders have eyes on the back of their heads...

genetic manipulators have synthesized spider silk in goat's milk for military-industrial purposes - apparently a 1-inch thick strand of spider silk can stop a 747 at full speed...
I think it's being woven into armour.

I suppose the potency of this totem rests in knowing which step to take: one leads to unimpeded passage, the other to a sticky morass.

and don't forget the 8 and the 8 and the 8.

(more likely than not, this disjointed association of ideas will confuse - I'm afraid that the hummingbird has taken over totemic duties in my corner, and that I've been consuming a lot more sugar than usual... mostly, this leads to high-energy subject hopping).

have fun
pablo (tenix)
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
10:28 / 24.10.04
I seem to be getting spider synchronicities as well, it's that time of year in the UK where you get these beautiful crystalline webs soaked in dew early in the morning. Most recently, and in what must have been the most terrifying dream of my life, I dreamt I was some kind of soldier ('Aliens' style space marine or something) sent into an abandoned church with my squad to rescue some civilians (guess who spent his early life in videogames...). When we arrived I noticed the roof of the church was crawling with spiders, big ones bigger than the Goliath Bird-eater by a good foot or so. We opened fire but there were too many and they started dropping down to eat the civilians huddled on the church floor, then my sargeant told us to open fire on the civilians, mainly women and children, to spare them from suffering. When the spiders came for us we pulled back and my squad starting being picked off by demons coming through the walls.
Too much Doom III for this man I think...
Incidentally, in Haiti and Jamaica the spider-god Ananse (spelt Anansi, as in the band Skunk Anansi, remember them?) is a kind of spider-centaur, half-spider, half-woman, who lives in the jungle and emerges at night. It's seen almost like the Satyrs and Faerie Folk in western mythology, but obviously eighteen-million times more scary.
I do need to find a way to honor man's best eight-legged friend, since they provided one of the funniest moments in my life when I went into an exhibition of spiders with some of my school rugby team (big 'ard lads) and watched them squeal like little girls each time a tarantula moved it's leg.
 
 
macrophage
12:22 / 25.10.04
The Spider spirit is a powerfull energy to work with. The Grof ting seems sorta like the Freud ting. I can respect Grof more than that Coke Psychotick! She weaves her mighty strands. Now what Octopi?????
 
 
LVX23
22:26 / 28.10.04
 
  
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