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New Music Paper...

 
  

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haus of fraser
09:52 / 05.10.04
Its come to my attention that a new weekly music paper is to be launched tomorrow by the chaps at artrocker- a London based label/ promoters/ ezine mailout.
what are peoples thoughts on this will they buy it won't they?

I know they seem very determined for it to be a paper in the old tradition of NME, Melody Maker, Sounds etc before they went under or went crap- In a way it could be cool - i know there agenda is all very underground championing bands like new bands on little labels as well as the old guard of Sonic Youth, White stripes, Yeah Yeah Yeah's, The Fall etc- is this just romantic nostalgia for being a 15 year old and trapsing down to the newsagent every wednesday and buying the latest nme?
Is there a genuine gap in the market for a new music paper when the others have died a death and the internet does a pretty good job of plugging the gap for the online community?

Here's a link for their website so have a look and see for yourself.

I really like the idea of it and i like the events that the guys put on (weekly nights at the buffalo bar- for free! with 2 bands, a room at the frog nights plus other bits arounf london...)

Opinions Please...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:18 / 05.10.04
No, I won't be buying it, and I'd urge everyone on Barbelith not to buy it either - the word "boycott" is a little strong, but scroll down to the text of the Artrcoker editorial being discussed here and you'll see it should be shunned. ""Maybe he made the fundamemtal mistake of being British in Britain, maybe if
he'd been the son of Albanians it would have been a different story"
- happily, cosily, openly racist filth.
 
 
haus of fraser
09:07 / 06.10.04
fly,
I don't agree with the editorial in question please don't think i do- I also remember it at the time - however i think the quote you took i think was a little out of context, I think the author was trying to open the readers eyes to internal inner city problems rather than problems overseas- however when treading that line of PC issue vs non PC issues he came across as an arrogant right wing twat-

although i also feel uncomfortable defending it as i think it was a stupid thing to say.... Boycotting with a knee jerk reaction/ encouraging others to do so, is just like saying I'm never entering half the boards on Barbalith because i don't like x or y persons view point.

The paper is about rock n roll rather than politics- sometimes (as Barbelith often proves) reading something that pisses you off gets the venom going- or gets your attention - maybe the point. I don't think the paper is going to be a sneaky way to fund the BNP or nationalistic view points- i may be proved wrong on this front- if i am i hope it doesn't last either. don't forget Johnny Ramone was a republican- it doesn't mean i'm gonna not like the Ramones anymore?!

I guess i'm saying give it a chance- my only political agenda is that music magazines have for far to long been ruled by a small group of people- with major record labels funding their output & reviews, leading to a medocre music press with limited coverage and bland bands. I'm genuinely interested to see what will happen? On this front I think its worthy- however we're all entitled to opinions..

I think the magazine is out now but I've not yet seen a copy?
anybody else?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
10:05 / 06.10.04
Boycotting with a knee jerk reaction/ encouraging others to do so, is just like saying I'm never entering half the boards on Barbalith because i don't like x or y persons view point.

Not so. Barbelith is an open (well, to an extent) message board and provides everybody with the right and ability to reply. You can take somebody to task for comments made in the same forum as they originally appeared.
 
 
rizla mission
10:15 / 06.10.04
that editorial is spectacularly dumb and misguided for a mag that's just launching itself on paper, but nevertheless, I don't think it's time to send in the heavy bombers: Artrocker has a generally good rep., and I think this is likely more a case of one bad writer that of the whole lot of them being fascists..
 
 
Haus of Mystery
10:48 / 06.10.04
It's just such an ignorant, ill-thought out piece of 'controversial' writing by some fuckwit who spent his youth obsessing over garage rock and has just noticed the world around him. Wank.

Dunno about the magazine. Is it all about scratchy New York wannabe bands or do they expand their remit?
 
 
haus of fraser
11:01 / 06.10.04
exactly its silly ignorant writing?!
But I'm with Rizla- the nights have a good rep- my point was rather than let someones misguided comments cloud your judgement lets look at the magazine and see if its shit or not?
It could well be? Has anyone seen it yet?
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
13:55 / 06.10.04
Everything is a question?
 
 
Haus of Mystery
14:33 / 06.10.04
Sorry Copey, I don't get the first part of your post. Were you responding to me? If so, I did actually ask about the paper's other content afterwards.
 
 
haus of fraser
15:44 / 06.10.04
ok to make make my last posting more clear,
we're all agreed that the editorial in question from the ezine mail out was toss....
but as that was an article sent out in January and we still don't know what the magazine itself is like- so lets get back to the original question is there a need for it?

sorry MacGyver i've not seen it yet- but judging from the website the slant will be garage rock bands- hopefully this will include a wider 'underground' though cos otherwise its gonna sink faster than you can say 'Lime Lizard'.

I do like the idea of taking on the big boys at NME/ Q etc cos they only cover the same old shit- Ordinary Boys anyone? (Ordinary being the opperative word). Its cool that someone is giving genuine 'indie' labels a platform as opposed to new bands on some fake indie subsiduary of Sony- given a new name for cred...
Going back to the bedroom outfits takes us back round to punk rock- god its gotten so bad indie is now a swear word... come on, how 'indie' really are Stereophonics, Keane, Coldplay, Radiohead, Libertines etc... er Not very at all actually they're all major label backed...
There is lots of interesting stuff going on in the underground- it just nobody covers it- I know for a fact that backhanders have been going on for years through out the music press- cover x, y or z band whose label pays half the publishing in advertising revenue, give em single of the week etc- i'm suggesting that if the magazine challenges this it could be exciting...however it could also sink, I'm merely canvassing opinion.... does it even need to be a magazine or would it be more cutting edge as an ezine?
Has anybody even seen it in the shops yet?

sorry to ask so many questions- i've got a troubled mind...
 
 
Miss K
22:50 / 06.10.04
I'd be interested in people's opinions about the mag if you manage to get hold of it. To put me in context, I am a member of one of the bands signed to the Artrocker label. I'll also be occasionally writing reviews for the site.

I believe that the magazine was launched in order to "kick against the pricks" of the extablished music press and provide a weekly alternative to the only surviving newsstand weekly in Britain, the NME, which has descended into becoming the Heat magazine of the corporate monolith that runs so called "alternative" music these days.

As a first issue, it wears its fanzine roots on its sleeve. As anyone who has received the sometimes controversial Artrocker mailout will tell you, the mag is pretty much like the mailout, but with pics and easier to read on the bog. The writing is honest, variable in quality, and pretty eclectic, but focusing on the guitar based garage / post punk end of the music scene which is Artrocker's core interest. If you don't like that, then maybe it's not for you.

There will be a four week (?) gap after this current launch issue before it goes weekly. I look forward to seeing how they sustain it. Jack Artrocker's hip hop column is particularly good, in my opinion.

The previously mentioned free Artrocker club held weekly at the Buff in Islington is one of the best nights around, though quality is highly up and down. To Tom and Paul's credit, they do genuinely love the music they put on and write about and the bands you'll see are often very raw, the sound murky. Maybe I'm biased but I more often than not have a great time there.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:38 / 07.10.04
Dude! Lime Lizard! Now *that* was a magazine. Let us also spearhead the Charlotte's Mag revival.

I dunno - I don't imagine that the magazine is going to be terribly radical if the editor is basically a Tory, which that editorial piece suggests he is, not to mention a bit of a weed - King's Cross may be a bit grim, but you would have to be a King Kong Fotherington-Thomas to be that scared by it. Also, of course, that piece is so badly written that, while the boy may have great taste in music, I suspect he might kill any desire I have to explore this exciting new underground of kids with guitars. I mean:

I left the station utterly depressed, the image of that boy burned into my consciousness - forever!

Fucking atrocious. It's like H.P Lovecraft decided to write for the Daily Mail.

As such, could somebody who attends these evenings possibly just tell me what's good? Miss K?
 
 
Miss K
08:00 / 07.10.04
No! Go and find out yourself, you lazy g*t!

Or are you afraid you will be inculcated into the insidious Tory ways of the artrocker mailout?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:12 / 07.10.04
It's more that I'm unlikely to buy a magazine with editorial standards sufficiently low to contain material like the article quoted, nor support a mailout which is being used to promulgate material of the politics or the quality of the aforementioned, for about the same reason that I don't buy the Daily Mail. As such, it looks like I'm going to have to depend on recommendations from individuals, who will presumably be happy to tell me about the gigs they enjoyed and recommend artists, because surely that's what it's all about - the music, not the publication?
 
 
rizla mission
08:13 / 07.10.04
I do like the idea of taking on the big boys at NME/ Q etc cos they only cover the same old shit- Ordinary Boys anyone? (Ordinary being the opperative word).
...
There is lots of interesting stuff going on in the underground- it just nobody covers it-




HELLO OUT THERE!
 
 
Miss K
08:26 / 07.10.04
looks like I'm going to have to depend on recommendations from individuals, who will presumably be happy to tell me about the gigs they enjoyed and recommend artists, because surely that's what it's all about - the music, not the publication?

Exactly, hence my exhortation to go and discover for yourself. Artrocker is very much a lucky dip club. Some weeks you luck out, some you don't. Rather than give you a list of good bands that I've seen there and at similar clubs, I'd much rather recommend that you go and see for yourself. Because it's free, it's only your time and the price of the beer that you'll suffer.

Plan B looks good Rizla. There's a recommendation for you straight away. At the top of that Plan B homepage, The Gin Palace. One of Artrocker's finest.
 
 
haus of fraser
08:47 / 07.10.04
rizla..

i was specifically refering to print when i said nme/ q don't cover the underground.
I then went on to ask the question..

".. does it even need to be a magazine or would it be more cutting edge as an ezine?"

you may have answered my question though...
I will check out your link cos it looks cool (first thing on the front page is a gin palace- artrocker band- review though...)

Has anybody seen it yet?
(except for miss k)
Where can i get it...

Bush- to defend miss k, i've been to the nights that they run at the Buffalo bar, and yes they are rather good actually- if garage rock bands are your thing?
its free to get in when you subscribe to their mailout. I know that it's not everyones cup of tea, which in turn means you don't have to go - but in my mind anyone that puts on a weekly night with 2- 3 bands and a late license for free every week is actually providing a good service. An outlet for bands that want to avoid the Carling/mean fiddler toilet circuit of the NME. As well as a providing regular crowd that will stop and watch an unknown band giving a degree of coverage and providing (of sorts) a scene.

I guess the real shame of the whole thing is that whether you like garage rock/ underground/ indie music or not the whole thing has been soured slightly with an idiot editorial- a shame really cos otherwise we may all be nodding and saying what a good thing it was that someone was taking on the big boys...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:50 / 07.10.04
That does seem like a good start. When are the nights? Is it just Artrocker-signed bands, or more general salty goodness?
 
 
Miss K
08:55 / 07.10.04
It's on every Tuesday at The Buffalo Bar. And no, it's not just Artrocker bands as that would get decidedly dull after about three weeks. You'll probably see one of the label bands about once every three months or so.

To get in free, you have to join the mailing list then ask for them to make a membership card which you pick up at the door the first time you go (info@artrocker.com)

Helpful K
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:01 / 07.10.04
Copey's brick - it is a shame, because if I have to subscribe to the mailout to get free tickets, and subscribing to the mailout suggests that I am supportive of the editorial - even if I don't read the thing, I'm still registered - then it may not be worth the candle. Do you have the option of paying for entrance instead?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:11 / 07.10.04
I guess I can't help wondering what it is that Artrocker has that Plan B or Loose Lips don't - they all nights at the Buffalo Bar featuring up-and-coming bands, they all have a web and print version, they all like the Gin Palace - it's just that when the latter stray into politics, it's in the form of righteous, necessary pieces by the likes of Neil Kulkarni, rather than all this "I know it's not very PC, but I hate Johnny Foreigner" bullshit; also it has to be said that Plan B's musical focus seems less narrow than Artrocker's. Some people have suggested a link between the politics of Artrocker's editorials and the range of music it tends to cover: I couldn't possibly comment. But I will say that what I'm looking for in music writing is something that covers an even broader spectrum of music, not a narrower one.

I think the politics issue is important enough not to write off as "just a matter of opinion", but obviously everyone has to decide for themselves how important it is in terms of influencing their own buying/listening/reading habits: for example I've bought records on the Artrocker label and would probably do so again. Do I choose to do this and avoid the writing side of things because the thing that pissed me off was a piece of writing itself? Probably. Is that a bit arbitrary? Maybe.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:12 / 07.10.04
Of course, on reflection, that (paying for entrance) is also expressing support for Artrocker the brand (which is associated with the Conservative politics and low standards of the editor) rather than the exciting, spiky new guitar music with which it is only tangentially associated, so it might, on the whole, be better to see bands, including hopefully Miss K's, at other venues. Hence my original request.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:17 / 07.10.04
Although, I should add that I have written for sites that also published loony right-wing rants. Personally I only felt comfortable with that because of the inclusion of a "not the opinion of the publication blah blah" disclaimer, and in fact it spurred me on to write things that redressed the balance - so it's a tricky thing, something to wrestle with...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:21 / 07.10.04
Indeed - but in this case the right-wing editorial is from the editor and one of the leading lights of the publication, which makes "not the opinion of the publication" a bit harder to pull off. Possibly if the next one has an article on "Why Tom Artrocker is a scaredy-cat Tory xenophobe" in the editorial slot...
 
 
Miss K
09:25 / 07.10.04
how exactly is artrocker "only tangentially associated" with the new guitar music? They championed, nurtured and promoted it ages before the current wave of guitar bands were even a fashionable gleam in the NME's eye?

Anyhoo, I hope you all enjoy whatever music you listen to and whatever journals you read, but the ideological contortions of this thread have got way too annoying for me. I'm outta here.

By the way, if it's any consolation, that paper launch party was a bit shit
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
09:28 / 07.10.04
Fucking atrocious. It's like H.P Lovecraft decided to write for the Daily Mail.

<3 <3 <3 <3

The more I look at this latest effort,plan b or pitchfork the more I realise music journalisim is inherently undesirable - the only decent band in years a magazine ever got me into was the Icarus Line, whereas my current sonic beaus The Polysics and Mochipet were discovered through chatrooms, and my love of Devo came about out of idle curiosity.

The simple truth is 90% of music reviews are complete and utter bollocks - either the reviewer hasn't got his facts right (I'm thinking of the reviews for Always Outnumbered, Never Outgunned here) or s/he'll decide to go off on some weird Will Self(-important)esque tangent of barely coherent prose. I'd hold Plan B's unreadable review of !!! as a good (bad) example of this. Of course interviews reporting the bare facts are great - knowing about release dates, and new stuff happening is essential - but the second someone sits down to write up a CD the chances of them flying up their own bottom increase by 90%.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:29 / 07.10.04
Fuck's sake, "ideological contortions"? Artrocker ran a political opinion piece as an editorial. If you think that has no place in discussions about music, Miss K, then unless you know that there will be no more pieces like that ever again, I'm surprised you're not more dubious than anyone about the publication.
 
 
haus of fraser
09:38 / 07.10.04
sample bands that may play/ have played- there should be some mp3's on the sites to hear them if you don't know them already...

The Hells
Kaito
Gin Palace
The Rocks
Punish the atom

the Yeah Yeah Yeah's did their first uk show at art rocker- The willowz just played the other week (they feature on the soundtrack to eternal sunshine & Michel gondry just did their video.) Pretty Girls Make Graves not sure if they ever played? they do feature on one of the compilation album put out by the label and would certainly be the kind of band that would/ should have played... Ikara Colt i'm sure have played?
and the nice thing is its free- if its your thing have a look?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:42 / 07.10.04
Radiator's point is interesting, although it'll probably take us off-topic, but what the hell: I guess it comes down to the question of what you want music writing to be, and what you want it to be for. One argument is that it should be primarily functional: this is what this album's called, this is who the band, this is when and on what label it's out, this is what it basically sounds like. I think the idea that that last one can ever be done in an objective way is a myth, and has led to a lot of bad, boring music writing.

Personally, I like reading music writing almost for its own sake: growing up reading the Melody Maker, I didn't have access to 90% of the music described (if not more, initially - bear in mind that this was before Oasis started getting on daytime radio, so it was basically a question of matching the bands written about to the songs heard on the Evening Session). So I've always liked music writing that makes me think: and possibly makes me think about stuff other than music. This is why the best stuff I read is often online. There are very few print publications that are willing to take risks in this department: Plan B is definitely one of them, though. Of course taking risks means you'll get it wrong too - there will be pieces that are self-indulgent, or borderline coherent - and some people will call you these things, or 'pretentious', even when you're not - but it works when it produces pieces as good as David McNamee's review of the !!! album, which is one of the best things I've read this year, so I'm glad you mentioned it, Radiator (anytime you want to pick up where we left off on that topic, feel free).
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:45 / 07.10.04
how exactly is artrocker "only tangentially associated" with the new guitar music?

No offence intended. I meant that Artrocker is a brand - a publication, a gig night, a record label, a newsletter. Hence, tangentially - it touches the music, but is not the music. I have no wish to denigrate its efforts to brign the music to a wider audience - it is unfortunate, however, that it is also alienating people from this music by associating it with unpleasant right-wing ideology.

I'd like to listen to music without simultaneously supporting an organisation which publishes right-wing bollocks. It's a shame if the New Guitar Music is indifferent to racism, but that's not something I can affect other than in the most tangential (again) sense. I'd just like a way to enjoy the music - including Miss K's - without supporting or funding that publication's apparently racist editorial agenda - for example by seeing bands at gigs not collectivised under the Artrocker label. It looks like the best way to do that might be to attend a Plan B night instead, but I'm still working on whether that's the best plan...

(Mind you, if I don't start getting out of work earlier this may be academic...)
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
09:46 / 07.10.04
The kicker here isn't the vaguely bandwagon jumping attempt at "Britishness", it's the fact that this guy can't handle Kings bloody Cross! I used to visit London all the time with ma and we'd always arive there. If a spastic 7-year old and his mother can cope with it, so can our intrepid reporter.

Just like the Daily Mail he is irrationally terrified of non-whites and the homeless. For shame.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:50 / 07.10.04
I should add that the Gin Palace review at Plan B is really good.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:52 / 07.10.04
Dudes! New thread - hold on just a second...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:56 / 07.10.04
Oh, and Copey's Brick - as we've established, it isn't free - it's part of a loyalty scheme. Different thing.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:58 / 07.10.04
Would it also be derailing the thread if I asked what Kaito are like? Rizla, you're a fan are you not?
 
  

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