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Honoring Bast

 
  

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03:54 / 04.10.04
Recently I've decided it would be a good thing to create a shrine in my room for various deities I've worked with in the past and who I feel I have a connection with, for devotional purposes. However, there is one goddess who, though I admire greatly, haven't spent as much attention on as I should. I am speaking of Bast, or Bastet, if you will.

Now, from a bit of research I've done it seems that at first Bast was the eye of Ra and protector of the Pharaoh, but she also has another side, that is fun-loving, dancing, full of joy and humor. The original party girl, in other words. For the moment I may focus on this latter side, considering my obsession with Paris Hilton these last few months and my own attempts to become more fun-loving and whatnot. I've also read that Bast protects her male devotees from disease, something that, as you can probably imagine, appeals to me greatly.

Now, how does one go about properly honoring an Egyptian Goddess? Of course I plan to incorporate my own ideas into this mix, but for anyone who has worked with this goddess before and have something to share, please do. On a basic level I feel some connection... I'm a huge cat person. I've never met a cat that hasn't warmed to me. I spend a lot of time with my cats, giving them love and attention, and when they look into my eyes with that certain look, that look of love and devotion, it gives me chills. I don't know where I'd be without cats in my life. This is one reason why I feel that becoming a devotee of Bast would be a good thing. She also responded to a prayer of mine two summers ago (mentioned in another thread recently) and I feel that I should thank her in this way. I'm not sure what else I could do... I'm getting a Bast statue to say daily prayers to, I feed the local stray cats and set up little shelters for them... I'm planning on donating money to cat charities. Not like I'm doing all this just to win her favor... Partly it's because I really like cats. Still, right now, my gut tells me this is the right thing to do.

Actually, here's a more practical question. How exactly is "Bast" pronounced? I'm always bad at pronouncing names, especially Egyptain ones. I always thought it was prounced like "cast", just with a B sound.
 
 
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04:30 / 04.10.04
Oh yeah, she was one of my favorite characters in "Sandman" also. I should scan one of those panels and stick it to the shrine.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
09:52 / 04.10.04
Is Bast actually a protector of cats? I've heard conflicting things about this, in one version she was considered a wish granter, and cats would be sacrificed to her in order to get things done. I don't have a source for that, but I've occasionally come across discourse that suggests the modern pagan interpretation of Bast is possibly a far cry from what we know about how these entities were considered in Ancient Egypt. I've come across the argument that a lot of attributes have been associated with Bast that there isnt really much historical evidence for. Any Egyptologists out there who can enlighten us? The protector of cats thing is an interesting one, because you tend not to get that so much with the other animal headed entities. Anubis rarely seems to be considered "protector of dogs" in quite the same way that Bast is associated with cats. Is Sekhmet the protector of lions, or is the lion headed aspect intended to reveal something about her nature? Does Horus look after all the little hawks in the world, or does he have a hawk's head to represent his warlike aspect, as in shamanic mask work? To what extent has our understanding of Bast been influenced by generations of cat loving pagans writing about her?
 
 
Sekhmet
13:15 / 04.10.04
Modern pagans do seem to "fluffy up" ancient deities across the board, and try to pigeonhole them into a set of "domains" that may or may not be entirely applicable. There's a tendency to look at any given pantheon and say, "This is the god of War, this is the goddess of Love," rather than acknowledging the deities as complex entities with activities and interests at least as varied as our own. Saying "Bast, the goddess of cats" is a bit limiting in some ways.

In general it appears that the animal aspects of the Egyptian deities were intended to reflect something about the nature of the deity, and that the associated animals became sacred to them by proxy. In the case of Bast and Horus, though, the association may be a bit more pronounced, since in these cases it's fairly common to see the deities pictured as wholly animal in form, not just with an animal's head - I can't recall having seen most of the other gods depicted in this way. (Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.)

But however heavily you identify Bast with cats, consider how complex cats are. Consider their varying personalities and moods. Consider their ability to be fierce fighters as well as cuddlemates, protective mothers, or playful imps. Consider that while we tend to identify cats with lunar attributes, in Egyptian myth she was also the protector of the Sun, the slayer of Apep, defending Ra on his nightly journey. Bast was associated with dancing and music and fertility and magic, yes - as were Hathor and Isis, and several other deities. It's not always that easy to categorize these entities.

Egyptian theology was very complex and esoteric, and deities would merge, separate, change names and attributes, form family units, be born and die, act in concert and independently. I know just enough about Egyptian myth to realize I don't know squat, and that most modern interpretations oversimplify the issue to a criminal degree.

Make a study of Bast and let us know what you find out; it would be great if we could all learn something new.

A note regarding pronunciation: it's a bit unclear how the ancients might have said it, but from what I've seen, I think the "Bast"/"cast" pronunciation is reasonably close. There is the variant spelling "Pasht", which may indicate that both the B and S sounds are a bit softer. The T is definitely a hard T - it's even been asserted that the spelling "Bastet" wasn't intended to add another syllable to the name, but was the scribes' way of indicating that the word should be pronounced with a hard T at the end, rather than pronouncing it "Bas" (basically, they doubled the T sound to make sure it didn't get dropped).
 
 
macrophage
13:31 / 04.10.04
Never worked with Bast but I'd imagine it's the same as working with animal totems. I'm more into dogs so Anubis is the one for me, though Id be tempted to transmorph it into Scooby Doo!!! Rite I must walk my dog now - tara!!!!
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
13:49 / 04.10.04
Never worked with Bast but I'd imagine it's the same as working with animal totems.

So presumably, in your cosmology, Ganesh is the "God of Elephants" and his personality and sphere of influence is indistinguishable from that of an "elephant totem animal"? And you consider Anubis, a God associated with Death in Ancient Egypt, to be synomous with Scooby Doo because they are both represented by canines?
 
 
Sekhmet
14:11 / 04.10.04
Ah, but Scooby-Doo solves mysteries, and what is Death but the greatest Mystery of all?

Hanna-Barbera cartoons are actually fantastic representations of the holographic universe and the cyclical nature of existence. You notice how the same backgrounds go past over and over again, while the characters run and run without arriving anyplace different? Ahaaah... (*nods wisely*)

Om mani Scooby huuuummmm...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:12 / 04.10.04
Now, now, GL, no need to be rude. Just as Bast is actually the goddess of having a tiny nose and providing unconditional affection, so is Anubis the god of splashing through puddles and Scooby Snacks.

Can we keep somne sort of a tally of people whose cocks drop off as a result of propitiating deities in an insulting fashion? The Vladimir J Baptiste index, or something?
 
 
illmatic
14:45 / 04.10.04
I know almost nowt about Eygptian magick/religon but an excellent sourcebook would be Don Webb's book, "The Seven Faces of Darkness" - it's about working with Set, but is an excellent well reseached sourcebook in how to work magick in the Eygptian tradition. Tons of great references if you wanted to start building your knowledge in thia area.

Again, pleading ignorance, I'm fascinated by the idea that the Eygptians may have kept cats. I suspect this may have been a far cry from what we understand as domestic moggies though - perhaps it was for rodent catching? Anyone know?
 
 
trouser the trouserian
15:00 / 04.10.04
Didn't they keep cats to feed their servitors with?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:15 / 04.10.04
And to groom their godforms. And, in extreme cases, to be used as a tactile aid to Chaos sigil charging.

Clever birds, these Gyptians.

Rodents, but also serpents - the first attested feline deity, Mafdet (?), is killing a serpent on a pyramid wall painting, I think. Cats are actually pretty handy to have around in a grain-based society - they eat rats and mice, but don't eat granary. You get mentions of Egyptians keeping and coexisting with cats in Herodotus and, much later, Didorus Siculus. Whether it was in the same way we keep cats... I'm not so sure.
 
 
Sekhmet
15:21 / 04.10.04
It's pretty generally agreed that cats were considered sacred on some level, but goodness knows there's enough reasons to keep cats around without their needing to be little demigods in fur suits. Keeping rodents out of the fields and grain stocks would have been a fairly vital concern at the time, and more than enough reason to honor the creatures - even to the point of mummifying them, as they did. Live cats to chase away mice, dead ones to chase away evil spirits?

In passing, GL, I wonder if your note about cat sacrifices might be a matter of different archaeologists' interpretations... If you find a large collection of mummified cat carcasses in a temple dedicated to Bast, do you assume that they were a) killed in her name as a sacrifice, or that b) dead cats were brought to the temple to be under her protection, or c) to add to her immortal spirit army of zombie cats o' doom, or what? Considering that priestly types often keep their esoteric practices under wraps, how much extant evidence do we have of the significance of finds like this? Such issues of contention show up in archaology constantly, and the field is continually revising opinions based on old assumptions.

BTW, Fab Mr. M - my personal belief is that Bast does have a soft spot for cats, and I think your cat-oriented projects are wonderful in their own right. Just be sure not to restrict your view of the goddess so much that you miss out on her entire personality.
 
 
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17:44 / 04.10.04
Well, my opinions of Bast as (among other things) a protector of cats probably came from my first meeting with her in the Sandman Mythos... A dodgy source if ever there was one, but I really liked how she was portrayed, very mysterious and sexy. Generally most of what I know about her I've read in books of Mythology. Not sure what the pagans say about her, I tend to avoid pagan books for the most part.

I'm no egyptologist, but I've read that in Ancient Egypt if one was found guilty of killing a cat the punishment was death. Just flipping through my (outdated) Funk & Wagnells encyclopedia now it says that 'because of their extraordinary ability to keep down the rodent population in the grain fields along the Nile, cats became objects of worship when Egypt was the granary of the world... Egyptian cats were also used for sport by their owners. Attatched to leashes, these animals hunted birds for the family table; a boomerang flung by the mater brought the birds down and the cats, unleasehed, would retrieve them. Because they were economically useful and were believed to ensure many children for a family, cats were so revered that they were mummified and buried either with their owners or in specially designated cmeteries."

I've read about some of the false attributes latched on to Bast, one of which is lesbianism... Not that I'm against lesbianism in any way. And as I noted above I'm aware there's more then one aspect of Bast, just as Ganesha is on one hand the jolly god of Scribes but also the destroyer of demons (or how Horus and Set are two aspects of the same thing... well, according to Kenneth Grant at least. Speaking of dodgy sources...)

I'll have to keep an eye out for that book Illmatic.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:10 / 04.10.04
I'm no egyptologist, but I've read that in Ancient Egypt if one was found guilty of killing a cat the punishment was death.

Diodorus Siculus records the Egyptians demanding the death of a Roman citizen who had killed a cat. That took place, allegedly, in the 180th Olympiad - that is, between 60 and 56BCE. Your first problem is that "Ancient Egypt" doesn't mean much - at that point, Egypt was ruled by Ptolemids - that is, the descendants of the Greek-speaking members of Alexander's elite who inherited the region upon his death in 323BC - that is, 260-odd years before this anecdote. There are tomb paintings showing what may be domesticated cats in the Middle Kingdom, c. 2000BCE, that is about 1900 years before etc. Bubastis seemed to have its period of greatest importance around the 22nd dynasty - that is about halfway between 2000BCE and 60BCE, and I think about the time when the cat cemetary of Bubastis is meant to have been started...

Egypt is a massively ancient culture, and to say "in Ancient Egypt" is in some ways a bit like saying "in Europe" - not enormously helpful. If I were you, I'd make a decision about how much you feel you *should* know about Bast, and the worship of Bast, before worshipping Bast. Neil Gaiman is not a reliable source, be his portrayal ever so HOTT...
 
 
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19:43 / 04.10.04
Well, I thought I made it clear that I didn't consider Gaiman a valid source. As for the thing I said about Ancient Egypt, I didn't say I was right, I was just relating something I had read on the topic.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
19:44 / 04.10.04
Have another look at what I wrote, dude.
 
 
Sekhmet
19:49 / 04.10.04
Incidentally, Gaiman's Bast had a book of her own a little while back, called "BAST", cleverly enough, which you might want to check out. Can't recall now if it was a miniseries or a one-shot, but it was a nice little story if you like Gaiman...
 
 
XXII:X:II = XXX
05:32 / 05.10.04
On the other hand, if you really like Gaiman you stay the hell away from all the SANDMAN spinoffs altogether. But that's a discussion for a different area.

It's funny this should come up, since I was walking in Red Hook, Brooklyn, a week ago, trying to stay open to "signs," when I passed a graffitied lamppost with the recognizable word "BAST" on it. I wondered what sort of a read I ought to have taken from that, seeing as it was 3 am, the streets nearly deserted and I was a bit lost.

Is Isis not also a cat deity? She and Bast are certainly the two most prominent female figures in Egyptian mythology. No doubt the idea of royalty being allowed incest was either reflected in or drawn from that source, since those goddesses appear to have birthed just about everyone else therein, possibly including one another.

Incidentally, if we're to have an index named after me, can we have one in which self-aggrandizing figures whose genitals are withering from disuse named after Haus?

/+,
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
06:39 / 05.10.04
when I passed a graffitied lamppost with the recognizable word "BAST" on it.

After which, no doubt, you consider Bast a friend?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:24 / 05.10.04
But seriously, folks, I am terribly sorry: I had no idea that I was self-aggrandising. I loathe such a weakness, just as should all right-thinking people, like my right hand Vlad over... what? Sorry, I'm getting some interferenceerenceereence:

Vladimir J. Baptiste, Jr., is a phosphorescent seraphim, possessing filament hair, compact disc eyes, porcelain skin and bubble gum lips. His brow is uncreased by worry or doubt; the only wrinkles he might acquire are laugh lines. His clothes are a flatscreen television, cuffed and collared by Simon games, tailored to a lithe frame, yet he walks barefoot an inch above the ground, silent save for the distant sound of windchimes. He steals the children of the conservative right without saying a word; simply his existence is enough to tear open a picture window onto a far more immense and strange world than they've ever been allowed to see. When he does speak, it is on strawberry-scented winds, in ten voices at once, and never the same ten from moment to moment, yet always in exquisite harmony. His works enchant, bewitch, stimulate and evoke; in the face of them, some people laugh with joy, still others weep as they've never allowed themselves to. There's something more Warhol than Warhol about him, something more Dali than Dali, more Burroughs than Burroughs. He is distilled thought made flesh, the purity of which is that which inspired early Christians to simulated cannibalism. Oh, he'll be villified. They'll burn him in effigy, maybe they'll even burn him. But it won't matter, because he'll have grabbed the brass ring, and fuck 'em if they can't take a joke.

Sorry, where was i? Oh yes. Self-aggradisement. Very bad. My old chum Vladimir said so, and who are we to argue with a man who pisses disco and shits mirrorballs?

Back to Bast - there is some identication between Isis and cats, but it's spotty, I think - does anyone have sources? There's also the question of what we mean by "Isis" here - the Roman goddess of the mysteries, or the Egyptian Aset-analogue, or a combination of the two. That's way out of my field, though. Which was what I was trying to explain above. It's not a question of "right" and "wrong", Syph, at least not primarily. It's a question of "simple" and "complex". Bast is an old and a complex concept, and trying to pare it down to something that can fit on a wisdom card or a pendant is, IMHO, not necessarily the best thing to do with the deity. That is, if you want to be nice to cats, that's terrific, but it doesn't necessarily tie in with what you're looking for from Bast, and the association you've unconsciously drawn betweeen Bast and unconditional love gives me a bit of a chill.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
07:27 / 05.10.04
Is Isis not also a cat deity?

I think you'll find she's primarily associated with cows.

here's a link to an article about cats in Eygpt. It even provides a book reference!
 
 
trouser the trouserian
08:01 / 05.10.04
After a mere few seconds on Google, I found The domain of Bast on which a lengthy essay on Bast reiterates the point that Haus was trying to make:

"While the cat was determined to be the most popular expression of Bast in antiquity, to simply narrow Her down into a rattle-shaking kitten herder is missing the point."

Good site - well-referenced, very thorough research - a rarity, in fact.

Don't worry Haus, you're just unconsciously displaying the benefits of a classical education. I for one admire the way one can merely say, "Haus, please discourse on the Hermae (or something) and you can - at length - in detail - until we have to club you with the nearest heavy object. But at least you can. It's a gift. And its entertaining watching your victims wilt under the barrage of information.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:48 / 05.10.04
Haus, dude, when will you learn that Sandman is the definitive text on myth and magic, that all other sources became redundant as soon as it appeared and that to pretend otherwise is merely self-aggrandisment and ego-tripping?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:51 / 05.10.04
Oh yeah, apart from those Silver Ravenwolf books. They rawk.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:20 / 05.10.04
Way-ull, to be fair (I know, I hate that too), if you're doing some sort of groovy mod chaos thang, perhaps Neil Gaiman is the source you want to be consulting - it certainly has a bit of precedence. I'd suggest that this is a variation of the gods/godforms/servitors thing - a god that has been worshipped for millennia is likely to be a rather more complex entity than Jimmy Get-me-laid, a servitor you have just whipped up yourself with resonance only *to* yourself. Syph asked how to worship Bast, and got the reply "with a bit more research and caution" - in the meantime, though, the being nice to cats can't hurt, and it's the sort of positive action as result of religion that people always point to with Christian Food Aid. However, in my entirely humble and entirely personal opinion you might want to know a bit more about a deity before you try to "work with" it. For example, do you know as much about the god you want to work with as you would expect to know about a TV you are repairing or a computer you are building?

Syph, by saying "as for the thing I said about Ancient Egypt, I didn't say I was right, I was just relating something I had read on the topic", seems to be saying that he isn't interested in much of a deep engagement with the idea or history of Bast, which suggests to me that engaging with Bast herself, a rather bigger undertaking, is probably not such a great idea. However, I am a famously nervous Nellie, and many of you brave boys and girls regularly go hurtling into situations which I would still be reading about in the pub.
 
 
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14:50 / 05.10.04
Haus, worship is a strong word, I don't believe I said it anywhere in my original post? I don't really believe in worship, so much as mutual respect. Having said that, I definetly plan to do a lot of research on this. I said the above comment because I didn't want people to get the idea that I was proclaiming gospel or something.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:32 / 05.10.04
Fair enough, Sypha.

On "worship" - good point. One question I'd ask is what you see this relationship as entailing - in the topic summary you talk about working with the deity, but the post seems primarily about devotions - are you just adding her to your "active pantheon", as it were, or are you looking for a relationship where favours are requested and offerings made in exchange?
 
 
Dances with Gophers
18:48 / 05.10.04
Egyptian Cat Deities
 
 
trouser the trouserian
07:21 / 06.10.04
I don't really believe in worship, so much as mutual respect.

Interesting turn of phrase, Sypha. So, two questions. Firstly, why are you wary of the idea of "worship"? Secondly, what's your thoughts on "mutual respect"? Interesting parallel with social dynamics, where "respect" develops over time, as two people come to know each other through continued interactions, recognising each other as complex individuals, each with their own stories, biographies, likes, dislikes, opinions, etc. We can grow to like and respect someone through exploring commonalities (similar interests, beliefs, opinions) but "mutual respect" for me at least, implies acknowledging differences as well.
Equivalence emerges from engagement, although there are likely to be power/status differentials, nonetheless. For example, I respect my boss, but he's still "the boss", if that makes sense. So, what does "mutual respect" mean in terms of a relationship with a deity? And, perhaps more interestingly, how are the boundaries of that 'respect' framed? What might cause you to lose respect for Bast? What might you do to cause her to lose respect for you?

thoughts, anyone?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:32 / 06.10.04
Hmmm... is there something one can pull from (to mix pantheons horribly) Hippolytus' relationship with Aphrodite and Artemis on that one? Artemis he worshipped, and was a companion and favourite of.

Now, there's a problem here, because of course being a companion of Artemis means abjuring erotic love. So, the debate becomes how you offer "due reverence" to Aphrodite if you are devotionally virginal, when "the worship of Aphrodite" also means sex? Hippolytus' position - that he respects Aphrodite from a distance - is, it seems, not enough to engender mutual respect from Aphrodite, which suggests that something beyond the necessary observances is useful. Except, of course, how do you define necessary observances to a deity whose worship is at best incompletely researched? It's a problem...
 
 
trouser the trouserian
13:48 / 06.10.04
Well now, straight off the top of me 'ead, I'd say that you might perform such observances as one thought appropriate, and ask the deity concerned to grant you a sign of the observances being favourably accepted. And a 'good' sign too - nothing too ambiguous. A dream wherein the deity appears (and doesn't pull your head off - unless its Kali of course, in which case having one's head pulled off would be a sign of favour) is generally considered to be a good 'un. Course with respect to Bast and her association with cats, I'd expect her to be fussier than most. "You call THAT a sacrifice!"

Haus, isn't there a reference to Encolpius offending a goddess - possibly Aphrodite - in the Satyricon? And doesn't Plutarch mention a public ritual to Aphrodite in which a single young man "lies down and wails and does whatever things women in labor do"?
 
 
Seth
07:12 / 07.10.04
I personally find the term worship infinitely preferable to a lot of the attitudes that I see displayed towards *deity work* and *godforms,* most of which seem little more than a psychological hobby. If you're going to work with a god, let them be a fucking god. Otherwise get your kicks from petitioning Professor X.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
13:41 / 07.10.04
I have to agree. I'm a touch twitchy on the subject, having had my metaphorical dick drop off after some poorly-thought-out attempts to work with Loki* in my dim and distant past.

Number of actual Sagas, Eddas ect read: 0
Amount of actual research done before getting involved: 0
Number of drunken conversations with various people who fancied themselves "experts" on the Norse pantheon: 5-6
Number of conversations with actual experts: 0
Number of der-brained New Age books on Runic Magick read: Wayyy too many.

(Obviously I mean dim in all senses of the word.)

I'm sure it was a complete coincidence that my life turned to utter shit in really imaginative ways for about a year afterwards.



*I knowIknowIknowIKNOW! Look, you can all bloody stop laughing, okay? It was a long time ago!
 
 
trouser the trouserian
14:11 / 07.10.04
Well Mordant, with hindsight, you could argue that was a successful invocation, given that Loki routinely fucks up people's lives, just for the hell of it.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:43 / 08.10.04
I know it was successful--I could tell from the whole going completely barmy and hearing hallucinatory voices chanting "LOKI! LOKI! LOKI!" over my personal stereo thing. It's just that I can do without that kind of success.

All I'm saying is: do the research, kids. Or stick to comic books.
 
  

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