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Did You see my boy Bush tonight?

 
  

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Ender
05:30 / 01.10.04
Bush is an O.K. guy.

There you go guys. blood in the water.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
06:16 / 01.10.04
Okay then. Well lookee here, maybe you could play with this ball instead?

 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:22 / 01.10.04
Never mind Bush. How's Steve?
 
 
Ganesh
08:25 / 01.10.04
Have you managed to get Steve to play with your 'boy-bush' yet?
 
 
sleazenation
08:54 / 01.10.04
I think Steve is seeing Bush behind Benfox's back.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:23 / 01.10.04
Does that mean it's time for Ben to get a back, crack and sack, or does Steve like 'em bushy?
 
 
Ganesh
10:28 / 01.10.04
I guess it wouldn't be a boy-bush without at least a little undergrowth. If Ben keeps his foliage well-clipped, Steve might even flip-reverse him and play Follow The Pleasure Trail...
 
 
Sax
13:56 / 01.10.04
Blood in your water's never a good sign though, Steve. You want to get that looked at.
 
 
Sekhmet
14:01 / 01.10.04
Can Steve pronounce "vociferously"? Because apparently Bush cannot...
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
14:56 / 01.10.04
I thought Bush did very well with his Big Word.
 
 
ibis the being
15:12 / 01.10.04
Bush is a human being? shit, that's good enough for me, vote 'im in!
 
 
Sekhmet
15:33 / 01.10.04
Yes, he did very well at turning a five-syllable word into a three-syllable one.

That's because Bush has a brain as powerful as a nuke-u-lar bomb.
 
 
sleazenation
15:50 / 01.10.04
i thought he was more of a 'Nu-Klear' kind of guy as far as WMD went.
 
 
eddie thirteen
18:00 / 01.10.04
Ben, man, I...I know that you know that Bush started a war that we have no way out of...and that aside, I mean, HE STARTED A WAR. We don't really do that here. One could argue that we started the Civil War...clearly, it being civil and all, it's hard to lay blame on outside forces...but the thinking behind that one was at least kinda noble, even if many of the people who elected Bush in Texas tend to fall on the wrong side of that debate. Believe it or not, regardless of the American rep for imperialism, we tend to stay out of harm's way even in cases when a strong moral argument could be made for our involvement -- it did, you'll recall, take quite some time for us to get involved in WWs I and II. And while we should never have been involved in Vietnam, it took a great many years of conflict before we took it upon ourselves to get mixed up in that bad boy, too. Starting wars is just not a thing we do. Until now.

The Iraq War is also incredibly expensive. In no tangible way does it benefit any of us. It doesn't even make us any safer -- quite the contrary. The Arab world, which clearly already hated us, now hates us more. This gives a lot of ammunition to, say, Al Qaida, whose operations are in no way impeded or even slightly fucked with as a result of our involvement in Iraq. They don't like Iraq, either. But they're perfectly willing to point to our invasion of Iraq as an example of American evil. In essence, we have handed them a major propagandistic victory. And, at the same time, we have committed ourselves to a conflict that requires the continuing presence of a huge number of our servicemen, which means that we -- in essence -- now lack a standing army adequate to domestic challenges. Which means that, if Bush gains a second term, we will almost have to institute a draft simply in order to have...um...homeland security. Remember homeland security? However, since no one can get a FUCKING JOB, it may be a moot point...joining the armed forces does seem like a better idea when you're broke.

Speaking of being broke, we have a shitload of money to throw at the war (most of it borrowed), but precious little to throw at domestic issues. Not only is our homeland not secure, it's also increasingly poorly-educated, increasingly just plain poor, and chock full of people who do not have the means to take care of themselves in the event of illness. Perhaps we could provide health care, or improve public education, or...well, we could do a lot of things -- if we had any money. But we DON'T, because Bush's tax cuts have insured that the wealthiest Americans no longer have to pay their share. Ironically, the only Americans who are likely to make a profit from the Iraq War are these same people...who do not have to foot the bill for the war. And whose children, no doubt, do not number among the over one thousand Americans who have so far been killed in Iraq. To say nothing of those who have been maimed, disfigured, and/or returned home in a state of dementia that may persist for their entire lives, for however long it may take for them to kill themselves and/or others.

I wonder if, when the American death toll in Iraq comes to exceed the number of Americans killed on 9/11, anyone who really thinks that what we're doing now makes any kind of sense will be given pause for regret.

Anyway. Yes, I agree. For a mass murderer who has bankrupted the country and who would quite literally kill you -- or at least get you killed -- to further his own agenda, Bush is a really super awesome guy. Ye GODS, Ben.
 
 
Jack Fear
18:18 / 01.10.04
Rising to the bait
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
18:21 / 01.10.04
wrt your topic abstract... you say "a human being" like it's a GOOD thing.

Grr. Bad day again.
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
18:24 / 01.10.04
You're going to need a bigger thread...
 
 
Bed Head
18:25 / 01.10.04
But it is a good thing. If he’s human then he can be killed. If he's human he can suffer and feel pain. All good things.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
20:01 / 01.10.04
Bush is an O.K. guy.

Waitaminnit. Are you comparing Bush to Martin "Old Kinderhook" Van Buren? That's interesting. On the one hand, Van Buren was an able administrator and politician, which is kind of not anything like Mr. Bush. On the other hand, there was a sense that everything came to him with suspicious ease, and no one ever quite knew who was pulling the strings, and that's kind of a lot like Mr. Bush. Though, when you think about it, it's kind of a lot more like Mr. Kerry.

So, I'm going to say, no, Bush is not an O.K. guy. Kerry is an O.K. guy.
 
 
Ender
00:27 / 02.10.04
I respect Eddie, I like Eddie, and I have thought for a while about what he had to say.

I am not a republican, and I am not a democrat,
and I am most certainly not member to any independent party.

But what am I? I wonder... I don’t have the answers, I can see a lot of problems with our nation. But I have never been one to bring complaints with out rational solutions.

I feel wrong to question the leaders of our country, when I don't know if I would have made the right choice if I were in the same spot.

Eddie made some great points, and he did so in a way that I could take them to heart and think them over, with out getting offended and disregarding them off hand.

Bush has spent lives and money in Iraq. I have been willing to look the other way on the issue, and set it aside, because I don’t agree with him. or understand his decision. But people have to answer so someone. If we hadn't gone to war, and spent that same amount of money on healthcare, or public reform, or education, this country would be in a golden age of prosperity.

I don't have any answers, and I wont ever be cynical about our president, but after starting this thread and reading through it, I will say that he is wrong.
 
 
unheimlich manoeuvre
00:59 / 02.10.04
benfox, you seem like an okay guy. you said "blood in the water", you knew what to expect.

...

you've the world's largest library at your fingertips. Senator Kerry is by no means an angel but you must choose the lesser of two evils.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
01:41 / 04.10.04
I won't ever be cynical about our president

Yeah but Ben, that's quite a sweeeping statement. Would it apply to whoever it was in the Oval Office, pretty much regardless of what they'd got up to, or is it just something you feel about the present incumbent ? And either way, what's your reasoning ? I'd be interested to know.
 
 
---
02:13 / 04.10.04
Did You see my boy Bush tonight?

Your boy Bush?

I'm scared. I might shout for Mummy now.......
 
 
Ender
03:28 / 04.10.04
About 'my boy bush'... typed in a moment of post-debate excitement. Upon re-reading, I see that it can be seen in a few different ways... I meant it as: Did you see the president Goerge Bush in his debate?

I don't want other countries to see us being so disrespectful to our president. It shows us as a country being chaotic, but in this case, again I will say that our president was wrong in Iraq, and I can not see supporting him anymore.

Really I guess I started this thread because of all of the mean and hateful things I was reading about Bush, I just wanted to counter-act some of the negative energy.
 
 
---
03:44 / 04.10.04
Ben don't worry about it I was just winding you up, I knew what you meant.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
07:14 / 04.10.04
You're going to need a bigger thread...

Ha! Awesome.

Hey, lay off Bush. The poor bastard's under a lot of stress. You guys poke fun and you think it's all fun and games until he snaps and it ends in a murder/suicide and then there's cleaning to be done and who's going to do it? Pfftt. Not you jerks.
 
 
Mazarine
07:51 / 04.10.04
it's all fun and games until he snaps and it ends in a murder/suicide

Hell, we're counting on it.
 
 
Lord Morgue
08:46 / 04.10.04
Look, I came here to see some boy-bush, dammit!
 
 
Ender
19:16 / 04.10.04
you will need to check out Steve's new website, Boybushes.com, he has a new feature spread there, check it out.
 
 
alas
19:55 / 04.10.04
I don't want other countries to see us being so disrespectful to our president. It shows us as a country being chaotic . . .

Huh? I don't exactly see what you are getting at.

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, beloved by little statesmen, little philosophers & divines." That's Emerson, "Self-Reliance," 1830-something (or so).

I think the president of my country, the United States, is foolishly consistent ("hard work" "mexed missages" "steadfast"), hypocritical, lacks even a basic curiosity about the world, is a poor judge of complex situations, and seems capable only of a dangerously simplistic world view. Beyond that, he is surrounded by people like Dick Cheney and John Ashcroft, Rumsfeld and Perle and Wolfowitz, etc., who have a really scary view of the world, collectively and individually. Bush himself has been grossly damaged by a privileged life that has required no real sacrifice or effort from him at any point--he's gotten by on his connections his whole life.

In short: he epitomizes to me everything that most needs to be changed about the United States and he is false to the values of the United States that I believe are most worth fighting for--democracy, equality, & a deep kind of respect for individual integrity, esp. that of vulnerable people. (It's easy to genuflect to power.)

My saying so is not a sign of national chaos, is it? If so, I'm in good company--Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, David Walker, Frederick Douglass, Henry David Thoreau, Victoria Woodhull, Ida B. Wells, Emma Goldman, Helen Keller, Martin Luther King, Muhammed Ali, Malcolm X . . . troublemakers all of them, all of them capable of speaking not very pretty truths to and about powerful people . . .
 
 
unheimlich manoeuvre
01:30 / 05.10.04
I don't want other countries to see us being so FNORD disrespectful to our president. It shows us as a country being chaotic...

"We
are a tribe
of philosophers, theologians,
magicians, scientists,
artists, clowns,
and similar maniacs
who are intrigued
with
ERIS
GODDESS OF CONFUSION
and with
Her
Doings."


benfox: shuck fit up
 
 
Ender
04:30 / 05.10.04
Man, I feel a little funny after reading that last post above.

I am starting to wish I never started this thread.

Thats a funny thing. People starting things, and walking away from them. Something being half done, half baked and just throwing up their hands in frustration, saying, screw it! I'm done! Or maybe beaten into submission. Or maybe, proven wrong, -and something amazing happens- they were able to realize that they were wrong(like I was wrong)and have a revolation, and really know that they were wrong, and not be able to find the words to bow out gracefully, and when that happens, they look to people to be understanding. I look to you to be in awe at the miracle that someone in this world was able to have a spiritual moment of clarity, and read something(in this very thread) that would allow for a change of heart.

No bullshit. I was wrong. I want to find the words to say to finish this thing. I want time to think, and find truths in my own way, I want to read posts, and mull them over.

I have stepped into the spotlight, grazed in the greener grass, got lost in the great dramatic, and I can't stop typing.
 
 
---
04:49 / 05.10.04
Yeah this place can do that to you sometimes. Good on you for having the moment of clarity though.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
11:38 / 05.10.04
Waffler! At least I knew where you stood, before.

What is your fucking position on Martin Van motherfucking Buren, ben?!?!
 
 
eddie thirteen
13:07 / 05.10.04
Ben --

Hey, man, I'm glad that the thread has given you pause for thought; but seriously, I hope that you don't feel psychically beaten down by me or anybody else on this issue. The guy who posted a ways up about reading up on the facts in re: Bush and his administration is right on -- I know *I* mean well, and I think I'm right, but I may well not be, too. I presented a position because my feeling was that you were probably not in possession of all the facts, but that doesn't mean I think you should take the words of anyone on this board (including myself) as gospel, and you definitely shouldn't feel cowed by the people who disagree with you. It was bold for you to present what you knew would be (here, anyway) an unpopular opinion, and if your mind has been changed by these responses, cool...but I'd hate to think that it had been changed because you were browbeaten. My suggestion is to read as much as you can on both sides of the issue and make the choice that makes the most sense to you on the second of November, regardless of whether it's the choice anyone here would make; that's kinda what it's all about.

...Unless you decide to vote for Nader. Because...damn.
 
  

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