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Non-US citizens guilty until proven innocent?

 
 
sleazenation
21:19 / 29.09.04
The front line in the war against terrorism shifted again today as it was announced that from today all UK citizens visiting the US will be photographed and fingerprinted.

I am aware that UK entering the US on a visa and that non-UK citizens visiting the US have faced such measures for around a year or so, and perhaps I am being incrediblely naive, but I object to the idea of Non-US citizens being treated like criminals for the crime of visiting the US.

Moreover, as Simon Davies of Privacy International note, travellers would have no rights "when falsely accused and deported". Visitors have no guarentees that their information will be properly used.

Am I the only one who is gravely concerned by this?
 
 
w1rebaby
22:38 / 29.09.04
It's too late to get concerned. It's been in place for ages now, it's just that certain people on an utterly illogical white list have been exempt.

My picture and prints have been taken several times now. It doesn't help anything and is just for show, but I'm sure they're on a database somewhere and will remain there until it goes kaput, and be distributed as felt appropriate. Information privacy laws are almost non-existent in the US.

Considering I don't have any plans to remain in the US I don't think that's much of a threat to me; a foreign government has my fingerprints? Wow. I'd rather they didn't but until they start sharing information with the UK and my prints might accidentally end up on the wrong list... well, I'll just have to develop some awful finger cancer.
 
 
Ganesh
22:55 / 29.09.04
I guess I've been thinking of the US as a paranoid, relatively right-wing quasi-theocracy for a while now, and it's turned me off even thinking of visiting - so this only confirms my prejudices.
 
 
unheimlich manoeuvre
23:34 / 29.09.04
The knock on effect has been that a lot of talented people have been applying to live and work in UK instead.
 
 
_Boboss
10:48 / 30.09.04
yeah it's weird, having gone from my dream holiday/living destination of choice a few years ago, i've quite happily come to the realisation that barring massive political upheaval i'll never, ever set foot inside the continental united states again. ah well. i've got friends there who i miss, but i do badger them to move back to europe every time we chat. i think they're beginning to agree with me.
 
 
Sir Real
12:10 / 30.09.04
Just a little note on the rampant fingerprinting in the U.S.:

About 4 or 5 years ago banks here began requiring fingerprints (just the thumb) to cash a check for you if you didn't have an account at that bank. I'm not really sure if this compares to tha visa situation. Maybe I was being treated like a criminal? Perhaps the bank was trying to stop check forgery? Maybe I should have been outraged? In any case, I do have a bank account now, at a different bank.

Let's just 'pretend' that I'm a dense for a moment. What means, if any, should we use to assure that the person with a visa is in fact the person that the visa says it is? Or is that not the issue at all, and the U.S. just wants to add prints of your digits to the files where they have prints of my thumb?
 
 
diz
12:40 / 30.09.04
About 4 or 5 years ago banks here began requiring fingerprints (just the thumb) to cash a check for you if you didn't have an account at that bank.

you have to get thumbprinted to open a bank account in California.

Or is that not the issue at all, and the U.S. just wants to add prints of your digits to the files where they have prints of my thumb?

i think that's it, honestly. they just want everyone's fingerprints for the central database.

when i was a kid, there was the whole big mid-80s Satanic pedophile conspiracy scare (the whole McMartin preschool hysteria). at that time, the FBI held a series of big mass voluntary fingerprinting events for kids. you know, so that in the event we were kidnapped by the Satanic pedophiles lurking in every corner, the FBI could, umm, track us by our fingerprints or something. i remember my mom lining me up with all the other kids and getting fingerprinted, and how all the adults were talking about how good this was and how much safer we'd be.

i remember how creeped out i was years later when i figured out what was going on, how the government was manipulating an absurd media scare and all that. but at the time, i remember everyone talking about what a good thing it was, which, in and of itself, is creepy.

so, yeah, my fingerprints are on file because the government fed my mom a line of bullshit when i was a kid and she bought it, just like a lot of kids in the US, i would imagine. what a weird place this country is. i would have been fingerprinted by now, anyway, because i have a securities license, and there's all kinds of fingerprinting and background checking that goes on there, but still.
 
 
Hattie's Kitchen
13:10 / 30.09.04
I went to NY in March and was treated like a criminal from the moment I went through passport control at Heathrow. Not only were my shoes checked for explosives (yeah, that's the first place I'd keep some semtex...), but on arrival at JFK I was held up at immigration while an smirking passport officer kept looking at my passport photo and then at me, and ended up saying: "Is this really you?" Admittedly I have lost a lot of weight and said goodbye to the butch lesbo no.2 crop since my photo was taken - but this will give the power-tripping immigration officials even more impetus to act like cunts.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the US authorities are already in possession of your name and home address before you even board the flight and from what I can recall, will soon have access to your credit card details - and also, biometric passports, which the US has also made compulsory from this month, are really just another form of identity card. I won't be going back anytime soon, needless to say...
 
 
Nobody's girl
14:18 / 30.09.04
I'm livid about this. I'd love to boycott the US because of it but I have family I'm visiting for Christmas. I feel like I'm being held rasom for my fingerprints, what right have the US government to my private details? I'm not a even citizen of theirs and I don't even trust my own government to responsibly store such information. Grrrr.

Fuck them up their stupid asses.
 
 
diz
17:22 / 30.09.04
Fuck them up their stupid asses.

you're certainly not the only one who feels that way. Ian Clarke hits the nail on the head here:

My question is whether the UK government has made sufficient provision for displaced American innovators to migrate here given the hostile environment they may soon face in their own country.

my boss quit last month because he had been trying to convince his Russian girlfriend to move out here for a while, but she got so fed up with getting grilled by Homeland Security types who were treating her like a terrorist during the visa application process that she gave up, and he decided to move out there instead. that's two talented young intelligent people down, how many more to go? can you imagine if you told the average American at the height of the Cold War that in the 21st century young people would be fleeing government harassment in the US to go live in Russia? China is already beginning a massive push for stem-cell research, in part designed to scoop up disaffected American scientists fed up with being hamstrung by Bush's right-wing Christian biotech policy.

it's all very offensive and stupid.
 
  
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