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Childe Roland to the Dark Tower came ... finally

 
 
Laughing
18:17 / 23.09.04
King's The Dark Tower VII: The Dark Tower is finally out, the final book in a series I've been following religiously since I was seven years old. I'm about three-quarters of the way through it and it is amazing. The writing style is more like Wizard and Glass, which I think has the best writing of the series, and less like the style of Song of Susannah, which feels rushed and worn-out to me. I'll wait for others to get a good start (there are others reading this, right? I'm surprised to be the first to start a new Tower topic) before I begin discussing potential spoilers, but I will say this: this damn story is breaking my heart, but when it's over I'll miss the pain.
 
 
Jack Fear
14:40 / 24.09.04
Well lookie-lookie yonder.
 
 
Laughing
04:49 / 01.11.04
Sooooo.....

Nobody cared to read it then? There's very few posts in either this or the other King thread from people who have actually finished the book. Where's the discussion? Where's the palaver?

Anyone?
 
 
Neville Barker
17:07 / 07.11.04
Jesus christ was this an awesome f$#king book. I've been reading these since I stumbled upon the first one my freshman year in high school and have anxiously awaited each and every one ever since. IN 99 when sai King got struck I was terrified that a conclusion may never be reached. Now we know that it was that exact event which spurred the later half of the story.
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

At the end of the Wolvers (#5) I was worried that there was a clear Grant Morrison - animal man Deux Ex Machina thing going on, and that when Roland and mates got to the tower they would find King at the top.
Well did I jump the gun!
What did anyone else think about King's weaving of reality into his powerful fictional world? I thought it was handled beautifully. And is their not some strong Magickal technique here? King giving his pains to Roland to carry while he finished the books. During long stretches of reading these last few in particular have been quasi-halucinatory for me, similar in fact to what appears to happen (though perhaps not quite as strong) with The Invisibles when I burn through multiple volumes in close proximity of one another.
Everything about this series just got better and better. What did anyone else think?
When certain characters died I literally cried and the whole time I drew near to the conclusion sadness hung over my crown, as a journey I began so long ago with King leading finally came to an end. Anyone else feel the same?
The only thing that somewhat fell short (not very) was the battle with the Red King at the end. It felt alittle, I don't know, out of place? The artist was perfect, but just that layed up in the tower with sneeches stand off seemed a bit too, distant. I wanted a bit more of this characters madness up close and personal.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
03:28 / 11.11.04
Spoiler type stuff below






The red king seemed perfect to me, he was always a quasi imaginary story book bad guy, so the fact that there wasnt a "real" confrontation with him, but more of a battle of ideas (art v. war or something maybe) seemed to fit.

As far as the very ending goes though, here is a question:

how many times has the gunslinger been through his journey?

It seems to make sense that he has been there more than once, and has gone back through his adventure many times. I have a few ideas about this.

1. the only way to win the war is to not fight it.
basically, i think the tower is trying to make him give up going to the tower. this doesnt pan out as well as i would like, since if he didnt go the beams would (theoretically) be broken. The main idea is that the universe doesnt want to be saved so badly that it wants Roland to suffer to save it.

2. The Tower is trying to make Roland more human each time it sends him back. Sending him to the beginning of his journey (or to where we joined him) with the horn of eld seems to do this. When we met Roland he was a nameless man with little past besides his quest. As time went on we learned more and more of his past, but he was still more quest than man. well, now he has an item with him that reeks of humanly nostalgia, in a way his guns, as murder weapons, could not.

3. Lifes a bitch, and you can never win.

Any other theories?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
16:33 / 17.11.04
I must confess, elijah, I haven't read your post, for fear of spoilage (of which warning has been given).

Just finished "Song Of Susannah"... I'm very glad indeed I thought in advance yesterday and bought "The Dark Tower" just before the bookshop closed, knowing I wouldn't get a chance to today...

It's sitting there waiting for me.

Oh yes.
 
 
Elbereth
09:50 / 25.11.04
I think that roland has been on the quest infinitely and will be forever. He never says how old he is but I get the feeling both that he has already died in the story and that he is as old as the tower itself. Also the reason that he is doomed to repeat the story is because of his lack of imagination (and the readers). All the people who hold up the beams and create the world are creative people and in the end he almost gets it by using an artist to stop a monster. They really hold up the Tower and Roland's quest to protect it is little more than a long painful joke. He actually cares about nothing but reaching it. Maybe someday he will change something real but I think that he will only change stuff that doesn't matter like saving jake next time(although I don't think jake will be back next time.)
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
06:01 / 26.11.04
I agree with Elbereth in that Roland will be questing for the Tower forever. His character is utterly goal-oriented and without imagination. Thus, his likelihood to change is slim to none.

What I wondered about is why the Tower sent him back. After all, it wasn't back to the very beginning of his quest, but to where we all met him first, after he had found himself totally alone, all his lovers and friends dead. At that point he is basically a machine with one purpose: to reach the Tower. He (re?)learns compassion and empathy at the hands of Jake, Eddie (my fave), Susannah and Oy (who I think is a very, very important character, whose absolute devotion and loyalty contrast sharply with the motivations of the humans in the series- Roland's ka-tet learns the importance of these qualities that Oy embodies from the start).

My question is this: Does the Tower want Roland to succeed? King has himself said that this series encompasses everything he's ever done. The Tower is everything, King's universe. And, as his readers know, King's universe is not a joyful place. The "good guys" tend to win, but only with massive suffering and sacrifice. Could it be possible that the Tower wants Roland to fail, to bring an end to the whole stinking mess? At least then the world would start with a clean slate.

Thoughts?

Incidentally, this is my first post here. I didn't lurk for too long, because I've read more intelligent opinions here in a week than I have on the rest of the net combined. I'm looking forward to chatting with you all.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
15:27 / 30.11.04
What I wondered about is why the Tower sent him back. After all, it wasn't back to the very beginning of his quest, but to where we all met him first, after he had found himself totally alone, all his lovers and friends dead.

Also note the key aspect to that moment was that it was when Roland first knew he would succeed in his quest. I honestly don't know exactly what to make of that, but it is the key to pretty much everything.

I actually saw it as the happy ending and that, with the horn, Roland will one way or another be finished. There's another bit in "Hurt" that wasn't quoted (for obvious reasons) but it sums it up nicely:

If I could start again
A million miles away
I would keep myself
I would find a way.


The horn isn't some kind of cheat code, but rather a reminder of himself. He's going to do it right this time, and, thankfully, we can all come up with our own versions of what that entails.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
22:51 / 19.12.04
I saw it as being that he WAS a vital component in helping to protect the tower- unlike the Beams and the others, it's his almost incidental acts to save it, purely (from his point of view) so that he can reach it. He's on this quest for eternity, and has to be.

Whichever way you look at it, though, that was really the only way the book could end. (Sorry... more when I've digested it a little better).
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
18:27 / 20.12.04
I keep seeing people saying that the placement of Browning's full poem at the end of the book after the Coda is purposeful. Basically the poem is Roland's last cycle, and the one in which he succeeds (since the poem narrates it with the horn).
 
 
Colonel Kadmon
21:21 / 06.01.05
I'm just about to start reading this series. I refuse to read any multi-volume series until they are all published, or it is at least clear that they will be. Because, if I really liked it, and it was never finished, I'd be heartbroken.
 
 
rising and revolving
12:30 / 25.02.05
*sigh*

Done. Just finished VII last night, and it was fine, do it please ya.

The whole epic was so perfectly bittersweet that I'm willing to overlook some of the minor niggles I have - Walter showing up only to die three minutes later felt a little too much like tying up a loose end. In fact, the entire Mordred tale felt a bit that way - even if it did provide some of the most poignant moments in the tale.

I've got some scattered thoughts about the ending, but I'll try and crunch them into a more even form before I spill here... but I do think Roland is as critical a component as the Tower and the Beams. It's all a delicate piece of clockwork, and Roland is the hour hand - controlling the ebb and flow of the Tower and the Beams in some critical fashion...

I need to read Insomnia now, though.
 
 
PatrickMM
15:28 / 29.03.05
I finally finished the last book yesterday. I'd had it for a while, but didn't really sit down to read it until a couple of weeks ago, and I'm really glad I finally did. The whole thing was great, though it dragged a bit in the Blue Heaven part, but right through the ending, there were still interesting characters and ideas being brought up. But, what really sticks with me now is the ending, which I loved.

There really wasn't anything he could find the Dark Tower that would have been completely satisfying, since it's more of a destination than an end. It's the mcguffin for these books, the things that keeps them going, and that's why the ending is completely appropriate. I love the loop aspect of it, and said loop raises many questions about how different things have been each time Roland goes through the story. But, beyond that, I like the hope that at the end, that this isn't an endless hell, and maybe with this horn, he'll finally be able to see what's beyond the last room of the tower.

If I had to guess, I would say it's something similar to what Susannah found in New York in the epilogue. She had this feeling that her journey was finished, and she basically left the story to go off to 'the clearing at the end of the path.' She's free of this loop, and I'm not sure, but I get the feeling that might be the last time she's going to make the journey, because she got what she wanted out of it, and maybe next time Roland goes, he'll find his own alternate world to live in.

One thing I really liked was the structure of the ending, with the epilogue, at which point I was a bit mad because the book seemed to stop right before the tower itself, so thankfully the coda turned up. I've read some online people saying that King almost didn't want you to read the coda, since searching for an artificially imposed ending takes the joy out of a story, but I think that's more to give you his reasoning for what's to come. He doesn't know what happens at the end of a life, which is basically what the top of the tower is for Roland, so instead of ending, he gives him the chance to do things over again, and lets you write your own version of the story, this time, in which Roland might not loop through again.

And, I would say that the placement of the poem is significant, both for the fact that it might tell us what happens when Roland travels with the horn, but also that it once again brings things back to the beginning. Roland's whole world began because of this poem, and it's appropriate to have it placed at the end of his travels.
 
 
matthew.
16:19 / 21.04.05
So I was at work when I finished it. I thought I was going to cry. I grew up with these books. My whole reading development hinges like the universe on the Dark Tower. I'm fairly certain The Gunslinger (Book 1) was the first non-children's book I ever read. I've read every King novel (except the Buick one and a couple of the Bachman books), and... words fail me.

I knew it couldn't be so simple. Somehow I knew Roland would never figure out the Tower. I loved it. I can understand completely why some people could be disappointed with the ending. There's only a little closure. Also, I don't think people generally even like cyclical endings. So whatever. I loved it.

In about a year or two, I'm going to do a marathon read through of the core Dark Tower books: the seven, It, Insomnia, Talisman, Black House, Salem's Lot, and maybe Eyes of the Dragon.

When I defend King to people who read "literature", I argue that nobody has accomplished such a huge undertaking. Sure, there's Robert Jordan or L. Ron, but it's not the same. Their projects aren't so wide in scope, nor as popular. I'm just sad Book VII wasn't the publishing phenom it deserved to be.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:48 / 21.04.05
to mega biblion, dude...
 
 
Saint Keggers
01:20 / 29.12.05
I just finished reading it... I had the funniest feeling that Roland will be doing the tower quest until he does it all on his own. No friends, no sacrificing others. Just him against his fate. Fighting Ka instead of throwing his friends up as shields against it. Just an idea
 
  
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