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Just Say Sorry Tony

Our Lady Has Left the Building

10:02 / 20.09.04

Had a postcard from these people drop out of my Sunday paper. It encourages people to contact the PM and ask him to apologise to the country for lying about the war. You can also sign up on the sight if you haven't got a postcard.

What do people think?

Tryphena Absent

13:47 / 20.09.04

I'd rather he resigned.

ONLY NICE THINGS

16:25 / 20.09.04

Well, if he admits to lying to Parliament and the British people, he would *have* to resign - if he didn't, a vote of no confidence would immediately follow, which I can't see him winning. However, I don't think he will. He knows this as well, and he still has this legacy to sort out. In fact, his legacy is looking pretty fucked up right now - Britain's relationship with Europe is in tatters, the third way seen as the future of European politics is now associated with craven surrender to the Neoconservative US, the US is not *actually* coming through with a lot of tangible support or even expressions of willingness to listen to Blair about anything of import, and Zombie Ian Paisley is still holding back the Northern Ireland peace process with the strength of his goalkeepers' hands. For some reason TB seems to think he is the man for the job to deal with all of these problems, rather in the teeth of the evidence.

So, since apologising would mean resignation, ignominy and no legacy, I think we can be confident that it's not going to happen.

17:33 / 20.09.04

It sounds like they don't expect him to apologise any more than they expect him to resign; as Haus says it would put him in an extremely vulnerable position, he's in a vulnerable position already, and if he apologises even a little I'll eat my powerbook.

However, "just say sorry, Tony" sounds like an awfully civilised request compared to "resign, Tony". How could any decent chap not apologise? It's nothing political, we just want him to admit when he's made a mistake, then we can move on.... To me it looks like a campaign to make Tony look rude and arrogant rather than criminal, and there's not really anything he can do, except hope that it and similar demands don't get any publicity.

14:05 / 21.09.04

this hostages thing is interesting - it's a stright swap, two for two, it's all up to tone, and he's gonna let the poor cunt die. seriously - not a mercenary, not a soldier, a british cit is going to buy it and have his severed head shown all over t'internet in just a few hours time because tone likes looking tough.

i don't want an apology or a resignation, I just want the poor Bigley's to get a chance to tear him limb from limb.

21:01 / 21.09.04

and the two women are being held for their involvement with Saddam's ABC programmes. WHAT FUCKING PROGRAMMES? I can see how giving in to kidnapping sets a precedent which leads to more kidnapping, but surely detaining people on spurious claims is also kind of the same thing as kidnapping.
Come to think of it, do you reckon that the guy Blunkett just released from his illegal incarceration has something to do with the situation?

21:26 / 21.09.04

Shit. They killed another one. There is no moral equivalence between people who do such awful things and unlawful detentions, but that doesn't mean the murderers don't see it that way. It should be possible to use that fact to rescue the captives, surely? Agh. Bastards. I think Rage's picture has come back to haunt me. Maybe she did do the right thing after all.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

22:25 / 21.09.04

From the Evening Standard... Mr Tony's compassion knows no bounds, it would appear.

By 2pm, Tony Blair himself had called, apparently stung by the angry criticism of a family desperate to do "something, anything" to influence events 2,500 miles away in Iraq. He explained in turn to several of them the "limitations" on his ability to end their ordeal.

Fucker.

We're The Great Old Ones Now

05:41 / 22.09.04

cube - to be fair, Rehab Tana, who trained in the UK in the 80s, absolutely was in charge of Iraq's bioweapon programme when there was one before our first invasion. That's not disuputed.

Haus - I fear the other reason Blair isn't going to apologise is that he doesn't think he's done anything to apologise for. Who was it who said that no one who takes the PMs office ever leaves it entirely sane?

07:12 / 22.09.04

The scarey thing is I think you are right, Celibate.

Regrettable Juvenilia

08:45 / 22.09.04

Given that Blair has said "I never quite understand what people mean by this neocon thing", I think it's pretty clear at this point that he's detached from reality. He's the worst kind of ideologue: he has this bizaree twisted 'Christian' 'liberal' imperialist vision, and anything that threatens that (like who the people he's really working for are, what they explicitly state their aims are and what they have openly done, with what results, etc...) must be dismissed out of hand, even if that involves wilful ignorance.

11:52 / 22.09.04

Looks like we now know what the US forces definition of Iraqi sovereignty...

18:38 / 22.09.04

cube - to be fair, Rehab Tana, who trained in the UK in the 80s, absolutely was in charge of Iraq's bioweapon programme when there was one before our first invasion. That's not disuputed.

Yeah, kind of jumped in without knowing the facts, sorry. Still, how hard would it be to pretend to let her out and then trump up some other kind of charge a day or two later? They do that last bit without compunction for plenty of other people... Not that I'm saying that would be an ethical or acceptable course of action, but if they're going to abuse rights they way they do on a daily basis, they could at least do it for a good cause.

20:46 / 22.09.04

There is no moral equivalence between people who do such awful things and unlawful detentions

Perhaps not, but there's arguably some degree of moral equivalence between people who murder a small number of civilians - awfully, horribly, unforgivably - in pursuit of a political aim, and people who murder a vast number of civilians - sorrowfully, regretfully, euphemistically ("collateral damage") - in pursuit of a political aim.

Depends whether we're judging 'barbarism' by the horrific quality of needless deaths or the horrific number of needless deaths.

Hattie's Kitchen

10:31 / 23.09.04

The US says "screw you, Ken Bigley..."

11:04 / 23.09.04

With the support of the UK, Hattie.

11:10 / 23.09.04

and no small amount of hand wringing.

Hattie's Kitchen

11:11 / 23.09.04

Well, duh. Like Bigley's family have already said, the UK government's "we don't negotiate with terrorists" mantra is pretty hollow considering the amount of negotiation it entered into with the IRA.

Tryphena Absent

17:27 / 23.09.04

No government can agree to the absolute terms suggested in a hostage situation. It's one of the only moments when the slippery slop argument actually truly applies because as soon as you agree to exact terms you're in danger of more and more nationals being taken as hostages. The only thing that can be done is negotiation but Britain can't negotiate publicly because of the situation that Blair's put us in with America and of course because we still have troops over there and he'll alienate more Iraqis.

So Tony Blair has screwed yet more people over in his quest for world domination. So he should resign. I hate him so much right now.

20:43 / 23.09.04

I know this is kind of off-topic, but it has been bothering me for days. When they mention the name of the terrorist leader, does anyone else who has read Iain M Banks hear it as Zakalwe? Not relevant, not important, but it has been niggling.

14:43 / 24.09.04

Looks like there are quite alot of people that want more than an apology - they wantBlair Impeached

over 20 MPs so far have signed on so far, unfortunately this figure include the clueless political opportunist David Amess (who was famously made a fool of by Chris Morris).

The provision to impeach members of the government apparently dates back to the Civil war and was last used in 1806. However here it seems that the aim is not so much to impeach Blair, but to force a commons vote embarassing the PM.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

10:24 / 29.09.04

You know what depresses me the most? At the next general election it's either him or Howard.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

10:32 / 29.09.04

Yes, because obviously everyone giving up on the big two and voting for the Lib Dems would be just crazy.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

10:58 / 29.09.04

Well, I'm voting for the Libs, but I can't see em getting in this time, can you?

23:24 / 29.09.04

I can see them getting in as a hung parliament this time, and gathering ground for the following election - so, as I see it, voting Lib Dem is anything but a lost cause. The whole 'weary bipolar' thing really pisses me off.

And it's odd, but at the time, the decision to go to war pissed me off in quite a personal way. In my job, one thing that's always been a 'hot trigger' for me is the feeling that someone's exploiting me, insulting my intelligence. Blair's decision to wage war was so obviously, transparently US-led, with a shifting, retrospectively cobbled-together rationale, that it honestly felt like he'd slapped me in the face - or was treating me like a stupid, born-yesterday cunt. I resented it then, and I resent it now. His appearance, his hammy fucking delivery does nothing but grate. I don't think I could vote for a party which values Blair.

And Howard? Well, that's a no-brainer.

The Lib Dems, then, are the best of a shitty bunch. Isn't that obvious?

09:27 / 30.09.04

Ken Bigley. Another reason not to vote for Tony Blair and Labour. The Conservatives will probably fuck up too, but Labour stink right now and it just seems like it would be good to get them out.

Just feels like replacing nutters with nutters though. I just hope that people in general are becoming wiser, making way for wiser people in government in the future.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

09:29 / 30.09.04

Dunno about a hung parliament, but I can definitely see them becoming a possibility in a couple of elections' time... if they can keep building support.

Anyone hear Humphrys grilling Mr Tony on "Today" yesterday? My admiration for Humphrys increased at about the same rate as my loathing for Mr Tony.

12:29 / 30.09.04

Got to say I don't really think the Ken Bigley situation should reflect badly on the government - though of course it is bound to be used against them by opponents, and everyone can understand the misery of the poor man's family. There is really very little they can do without making it more likely that even more hostages will be taken and beheaded or used as bargaining counters in a similarly distressing fashion.

03:00 / 01.10.04

Got to say I don't really think the Ken Bigley situation should reflect badly on the government

Well I kind of take it for granted that the government helped more than just a little in creating the situation over there so that's why I linked to the BBC report.

09:41 / 01.10.04

Fair enough...

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

12:05 / 01.10.04

Yeah, it is kind of a visual demonstration of why the world isn't necessarily a safer place for the invasion of Iraq...
But I agree, it is a kind of no-win situation- it's just Mr Tony has arguably PUT himself (and lots of other people) in this situation... "you reap what you sow", and all that. Unfortunately, Mr Tony's not the one doing the reaping, so he can be all smug and stuff about it.

10:17 / 08.10.04

Patricia Hewitt last night became the first member of the government to use the word "sorry" in relation to the Iraq war - although she stressed she was only apologising for "wrong information".

The trade and industry secretary, speaking on the BBC's Question Time programme, added that she still believed the decision to invade Iraq was correct.

10:47 / 08.10.04

Of course it should be mentioned that this comes on the back of Blair's lack of apology at the Labour conference two weeks ago where he said "The evidence about Saddam having actual biological and chemical weapons, as opposed to the capability to develop them, has turned out to be wrong. I acknowledge that and accept it. And the problem is I can apologize for the information that turned out to be wrong, but I can't, sincerely at least, apologise for removing Saddam. The world is a better place with Saddam in prison, not in power," (quote scourced from this Globe and Mail article)

The key problem with the above quote is that Blair does not actually apologise for anything - he merely states that he could apologise that information that Saddam having WMD was wrong without quite going so far as actually saying that he was apologising for it.