BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Yoga - Bearable?

 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
17:58 / 16.09.04
So now that I'm ensconced in New York, I'm looking around to get involved with serious long-term yoga practice (this being the neglected side of the equation so far). Wondering if anybody's gone wading in the morass that is the landscape of modern yuppie yoga with magickal intent in mind and come out with any tips or modern styles to recommend. This shit's just too expensive to shop around blindly although I could of course just follow the bliss-babe trail.
 
 
LVX23
22:18 / 16.09.04
I don't know abouit modern styles, but why not try the time-tested classics?

Hatha Yoga is probably the most common and is generally quite a good discipline. It seems to be the foundation of many other styles. I studied this style for a few years and now use it in my personal regimen. Ashtanga Yoga is also very worthwile and is much more focused on breathwork. It's based around the teaching of Baba Hari Das, who you might know is the patron of Mount Madonna, south of Santa Cruz. I have friends who also swear by Iyengar yoga, which is a variant of Hatha (as is Ashtanga).

It'll really depends on the teacher though. Some people teach Yoga more as a workout routine. Steer clear of these folks. You want to find someone that does a lot of visualizations and focuses on breathing. Someone that has an overtly spiritual vibe. Most classes will let you sit in on 1 or 2 to see if it's right for you.

The great thing about taking classes is that the instructors will usually keep you in the poses for a lot longer than you would normally by yourself. You want to leave class floating and tangibly high.
 
 
EvskiG
19:30 / 17.09.04
I got into yoga with magical intent. Practiced for more than a decade, and still do so from time to time.

Since you're in NYC, for practical work I'd recommend the Iyengar Yoga Institute, where I studied. Serious, hardcore, no bullshit practice in the postures and pranayama. The teachers all have to be certified, and most of them have studied with B.K.S. Iyengar himself -- probably the most influential yoga teacher alive today.

Their website is at iyengarnyc.org. I'd recommend the introductory series, then classes with Brooke Myers. Carolyn Christie and Matt Dreyfus are good, too, and James Murphy and Mary Dunn are legendary (if a bit advanced).

If you're interested, I'll even take a few classes with you.

As for the theory, I'd start with Iyengar's "Light on Yoga" and "Light on the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali."
 
 
macrophage
11:08 / 18.09.04
I would start with Hatha Yoga at first if you are athletic and don't push yourself on some of the so called difficult asanas, just take it easy on yourself. By doing Hatha Yoga you can then get yourself into meditation and thus Corpse Asana and Pranayama and then all the other specialisations and different style of meditations. There are lotsa different styles it's just like martial arts in a way. From Raja to Bhakti Yoga and all that biz. Indeed through Hatha you will end up doing asanas in no-mind (which is the core of Tai Chi and Qui Gong), which is a serious prerequisite for anybody contemplating research into mind control, and for a tool to achieve gnosis. As with any paradigm you have to have some sort of strong belief attached to the practise before you have reached the mountains.
 
 
nidu713
00:14 / 19.09.04
You should check out Sivananda Yoga. It's a worldwide non-profit organization, so prices are pretty cheap. I started going to the one in Toronto as it came highly recommended. They have good free intro classes.
 
 
Illph Sennin
17:42 / 19.09.04
Astanga Vinyasa Yoga as taught by Pattabhi Jois, a student of Krishnamacharya (BKS Iyengar's teacher also). Its more dynamic than Iyengar's style, with postures linked together by breath synchronised movements. There are six series of increasing difficulty, which allow for a safe and steady progression. The first series focuses primarily on opening out, correcting any miss alignments and general healing. The second series is focused mainly on purification of the nervous system and the nadis(anatomy of the subtle body that carry prana).
Apparently New York is fantastic for Astanga although I can't say for certain as I'm UK based.
I'm also biased, I'm a bit of an astanga junkie, in a week I leave for Mysore to learn from Pattabhi Jois himself, can't wait.
 
 
Orrin's Prick Up Your Ears
21:38 / 19.09.04
Any thoughts on 'Kundalini Yoga'? I've seen it advertised around North London. Modern-day new-age cludge or an actual tradition?
 
 
Benny the Ball
14:28 / 20.09.04
Hatha good for beginers, Savinanda is good for breathing and mental excercise as well as body, but probably best not to mix if you are doing other breathing based meditative practices, Iyangar is good for physical excercise.
 
 
EvskiG
14:54 / 20.09.04
Since there seems to be a bit of confusion about terms, it might be worth sorting a bit of this out.

Generally speaking, yoga encompasses a variety of methods for achieving enlightenment, liberation from suffering, or union with the divine. Classic forms include karma yoga (the path of good deeds), jnana yoga (the path of scholarly knowledge), bhakti yoga (the path of devotion to a deity), and raja yoga (the path of practical techniques), which also is sometimes known as ashtanga (eight-limbed) yoga. Raja yoga includes asana (physical postures) and pranayama (breathing techniques), among other techniques.

"Yoga" was first mentioned in the Rig Veda around 1500 B.C.E. It defined yoga as "yoking" or "discipline," but didn't provide any systematic method of practice.

The early Upanishads refer to yoga as a method to achieve liberation from suffering. They mentioned two methods: karma yoga and jnana yoga. The Maitrayaniya Upanishad presented a sixfold path (breath control, withdrawing the senses, meditation, concentration, contemplation, and absorbtion) that later became the basis for raja yoga. The Bhagavad Gita mentions karma yoga, jnana yoga, and bhakti yoga. It has a bit on the practical techniques of bhakti yoga, but not much.

Then came Patanjali and his Yoga Sutras (about 200 B.C.E.). Patanjali synthesized a lot of what came before into an eightfold method of practice: (1) yama (nonviolence, truthfulness, noncovetousness, abstinence, and nonattachment to material goods); (2) niyama (cleanliness, contentment, austerity, self-study, and devotion); (3) asana (physical postures), (4) pranayama (breath control); (5) pratyahara (withdrawing the senses); (6) dharana (focusing on one point), (7) dhyana (meditation), and (8) samadhi (liberation). It’s a practical method to be practiced in series: you first put your life in order by obeying certain moral and ethical precepts, then gain control over your physical body and breathing, then gain control over your mind, focus, meditate, and achieve enlightenment.

Crowley was big on this eightfold path of raja or ashtanga yoga, and much of his understanding comes from Vivekananda’s book "Raja Yoga," which covers the subject in a fair amount of detail. Raja yoga harmonizes nicely with the classic Western Esoteric Tradition, and Crowley incorporated it into the instructions for the A.'.A.'.

The asana or hatha yoga portion of the eightfold path is a lot of what people consider yoga today. The weird thing, though, is that the yoga postures don’t really come from Patanjali or earlier. The Yoga Sutra only mentions one asana, sitting. The classic Hatha Yoga Pradipika (fourteenth century) only has 15 asanas (most of which are sitting poses) and the Gheranda Samhita (seventeenth century) only has 32. The real basis for most of the elaborate poses in hatha yoga today is the Sritattvanidhi, a book written in the 1800s by a puppet Maharaja installed by the British, Mummadi Krishnaraja Wodeyar. The book had 122 postures (including handstands, backbends, lotus, etc.) as well as a ton of information about the gods, music, meditation, games, and natural history. But it looks like many if not most of the poses that weren’t mentioned in earlier yoga texts actually came from classical Indian wrestling and gymnastics -- and even from British gymnastics.

Modern yoga really comes from Krishnamacharya, the man who trained the two most influential yoga masters alive today, B.K.S. Iyengar and Pattabhi Jois. Krishnamacharya was sponsored by the same royal family as the guy who wrote the Sritattvanidhi, and it looks like he synthesized the Sritattvanidhi with previous yoga sources to create much of what we consider "yoga" today. (Krishnamacharya claimed that some of his teachings come from Tibet, or from a book dictated to him in a trance by the ghost of a thousand-year-old ancestor. Believe it if you will.)

Iyengar yoga is taught by B.K.S. Iyengar and his students. It focuses on hatha yoga with some pranayama, and emphasizes doing the postures as rigorously and fully as possible, given the limits of each student’s ability. His book "Light on Yoga" is generally considered the bible of hatha yoga. I don’t know that much about modern Ashtanga yoga (as taught by Pattabhi Jois), but it seems to focus on synchronizing breathing and postures. (It also claims to be based on an ancient palm-leaf manuscript called the Yoga Korunta that Krishnamacharya found in a Calcutta library. But the manuscript was "eaten by ants." Oops.) Other modern forms of yoga that involve physical postures generally descend from these sources, directly or indirectly.

So back to magic. Crowley focuses on raja yoga in his books on the subject, and incorporates bits of asana and pranayama into his A.'.A.'. instructions. The idea seems to be that the magic student should gain control over his or her physical body and breathing by practicing asana and pranayama. But, absurdly, Crowley measures "control" by the ability to balance a saucer full of water on the head without spilling it, or to breathe in certain set patterns, rather than by being healthy, flexible, and strong. (And his understanding of asana and pranayama techniques is about 100 years out of date.)

So what would I do if I wanted to incorporate yoga into my magical practice? Well, I'd find a good hatha yoga class of just about any flavor and start studying. Truth be told, any martial art probably would do almost as well, but modern hatha yoga has a certain intense focus on posture for posture’s sake that I've always enjoyed.
 
 
LVX23
16:59 / 20.09.04
Thanks for clearing that up, evskig!
 
 
SteppersFan
08:10 / 22.09.04
Wicked post evskig.

My take: I'd do any class that's easy enough to keep doing. Don't do one that sounds "git-'ard and magickal" but makes your joints hurt so much you just want to avoid doing it.

In fact I'd probably sack off the magic and just do yoga without worrying too much about getting spooky beyond finding compassion for yourself. Yer breath'll take care of everything anyway.

But then I'm a busy dad who's a magical lightweight these days .
 
 
EvskiG
13:35 / 22.09.04
Thanks.

For tons more on the subject, people might want to check out The Yoga Journal's website at yogajournal.com. Lots of fantastic resources, both theoretical and practical, for every possible yoga style.

Personally, once I got serious about yoga I stepped off the Western magical path for several years. That seems to happen quite a bit.
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
16:45 / 27.09.04
This is all awesome info, thanks very much everyone. People keep mentioning "kundalini yoga" to me but this seems a little suspect. I'm going to go check out the class that evskig recommended--it's only a few blocks away from my office!
 
 
EvskiG
17:12 / 27.09.04
Kundalini yoga was started in 1969 by a guy calling himself Yogi Bhajan. It combines asana, pranayama, chanting, meditation, use of mantras, and trying to awaken energy at the base of the spine and channel it up through the chakras. It also claims a Tibetan pedigree, although this is a bit suspect.

Bhajan had a bit of legal trouble (based on fraud, sex scandals, being a cult leader, etc.) in the late 80s. I'm not sure what became of the case, or if Bhajan is still alive, but it looks like Kundalini yoga is still around.

I've never taken a Kundalini yoga class myself.
 
 
EvskiG
17:17 / 27.09.04
Oh -- and good luck with the class!
 
 
Chiropteran
12:05 / 28.09.04
I have nothing else to add on yoga, but since no one else has mentioned it: I love the pun in the thread title.

~L

p.s. Bush and Kerry practice difficult asanas, and Bush Loses his balance.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:51 / 28.09.04
Oh, and welcome back to NYC, BoyInA!
 
 
Unconditional Love
18:12 / 05.10.07
Any advice since this time for what to look for in yoga teachers and what to watch out for since the influx of yoga into the fitness industry, some of the pages i have visited have warned about declining standards in teaching.

So could somebody with experience of good and bad teachers give feedback on positive and negative traits they may of encountered.
 
 
Ticker
18:40 / 05.10.07
As someone with injury issues I found hatha and ashtanga teachers took more time and the flow of postures was more comfortable than say bikram hot yoga. I have some friends that lurv bikram but it was was too fast paced for me.

My best teacher really listened about my concerns about my body and because I felt she respected and heard what I was saying it was easier for me to trust her when she wanted me to go a bit deeper into a posture. Some teachers will physically come over to touch you during class and while some folks find this ok I prefer teachers that ask each student at least the first time if it is ok or during introductions ask about injuries and concerns.

The worst teacher never seemed to really see me or other new beginner students or give us assurance that it takes time or that we were doing well. It felt like a high turn over sort of unconnected practice.

Personally I like my yoga teachers to talk about the tradition and all the other aspects of yoga and to make sure people are comfortable asking questions.
 
 
EvskiG
18:49 / 05.10.07
I can spout off on this topic forever, and have in the past.

Once again, while there are plenty of good teachers in a variety of traditions, I'll suggest that you try to study with an Iyengar-certified teacher.

Why? First, B.K.S. Iyengar literally wrote the (modern) book on hatha yoga, Light on Yoga. Second, he's one of the most experienced teachers of hatha yoga alive. Third, he's not just a brilliant teacher -- he's a brilliant practitioner. Fourth, all Iyengar teachers go through a rigorous certification process, and he teaches all of his senior teachers himself. Fifth, as a result those teachers tend to be very, very good. Sixth, Iyengar classes are extremely heavy on the substance and low on the bullshit.

Worth checking out.
 
 
Sublime Pathos
21:08 / 05.10.07
Performing the Raja Yoga practices daily in Book IV by Aleister Crowley have at least been beneficial to my practice. Asana and Pranayama have been of great benefit to my health as well.
 
 
Olulabelle
21:33 / 05.10.07
Another vote for Ashtanga yoga from me. Choose a teacher who is Mysore trained. I like Ashtanga because it's a fairly unusual form of yoga, it's more fluid than Hatha (because of the vinyasas done in between each posture) and because it's a whole body approach that you study, including ujjayi breath and drishti gaze.
 
 
EvskiG
21:46 / 05.10.07
I found hatha and ashtanga teachers took more time

Ashtanga [is] more fluid than Hatha


As noted above, hatha and ashtanga aren't separate things. Ashtanga Vinyasa Yoga is a form of hatha yoga, the yoga of physical postures, with some pranayama, drishtis, and mantras tossed into the mix.
 
 
Unconditional Love
22:44 / 06.10.07
It seems all of my local teachers teach hatha yoga, there are some teachers a train journey away that teach ashtanga and Iyengar, i have yet to receive email from them. I am going to try a hatha class this week, the teacher is registered with the British wheel of yoga and had a teacher that has been teaching locally well into his eighties for a long period.

I will see what i think and then in all probability try the other two to see what the differences are.
 
  
Add Your Reply