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my mate had a weird zen? like experience.

22:23 / 15.02.02

last night while at the local disco my mate had a very scary experience which he described as 'surreal'. he described feeling as if he was both there and not there 'like a fly on the wall almost'. as he watched everything, the dancing, the drinking etc. he got very nervous and when i got back from the bar he told me he felt like running home. he also noted that he felt as if he was creating everything in his head. Did he have a mystical experience brought about by alcohol? was it a case of what psychologists call 'self remembering'? was he just pissed? the reason i mentioned zen in the title is that a read a haiku from ai li recently that 'seems' to sound similar:

zen garden in moonlight i'm not here

any zen people out there who might be able to help the guy out?(from what he tells me this has never happened to him before and i said i'd ask the barbelith brains for advice what with your telephones to god(s), tentacled monsters that sleep under the sea, etc. and all)

22:26 / 15.02.02

p.s I just noticed i'm no longer a junior ha ha!

00:29 / 16.02.02

not sure if it's the same thing but my friend I grew up with had a disturbing episode of something- we looked it up in a psychology book and reckoned it was 'depersonalisation', which is sometimes an indication of schizophrenia and sometimes fuck all. This was largely attributed, at the time, to being stoned all the time and over-indulgence in acid while being a bit disturbed about other things.
Everything turned out alright in the end, though,

08:37 / 16.02.02

How about this: feelings of not-self have occurred in people over time and across cultures, and many belief-structures have been constructed to contain these feelings. So you are more than likely to find a *number* of philosophical, magical, and so-called practical "explanations" for your friend's experience. So really the important thing is to explore and locate the one or more that makes sense to him.

Zen does indeed deal with such matters; but if your friend does not connect to Zen in some way, it will probably not be much use in making sense of his experience.

[ 16-02-2002: Message edited by: Persephone ]

12:32 / 16.02.02

persephone, thats sound advice. my mates a full on cynical, radiohead lovin, post teen existenial angster and mystical explanations would probably be laughed at. Still interested though in anyone elses thoughts particularly in regards to zen

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

01:33 / 17.02.02

quote:Originally posted by seanmcglinchey:
persephone, thats sound advice. my mates a full on cynical, radiohead lovin, post teen existenial angster and mystical explanations would probably be laughed at. Still interested though in anyone elses thoughts particularly in regards to zen

Any "mystical" explanation in regards to Zen should be laughed at. And I wouldn't recommend taking anyone's opinion on anything regarding Zen. Study it (such as you can) yourself. Otherwise, it's all a sham. In fact, if it's one thing I've learned studying Zen, it's that it's all a sham anyway. Which isn't a bad thing, really.

00:18 / 18.02.02

quote:Originally posted by Johnny the zenarchist:

Any "mystical" explanation in regards to Zen should be laughed at.

Word. Respect to
Alan Watts!

<pushes Alan Watts into mud puddle>

While I was googling Alan Watts, I came across Zen Stories To Tell Your Neighbors. Kinda cool, invites you to tell what you think the stories mean, and there's a page of Western responses to the stories including, "How could Master Gasan never have read the Bible? Maybe that's the point of the story - even a Zen master can be illiterate." And there's a link "What is This Thing Called Self?

What if, if you click on that link... it comes up BLANK?

Shit. I was going to post a one-word reply, Word.

Word.

03:33 / 18.02.02

I would argue on behalf of Spare that Zen is a very usefull gnostic state.

That's the only use I've found of yet, but... it's a hell of a kicker.

As to that experience, it doesn't strike me in an Eastern sense at all. More airy. Out of body or being in touch with ether (I describe it lots of other ways too) or whatever seems more apropriate. Zen is more complicated and simpler than that.

Screw Zen. Become Confucian.

But that's just my opinion, which should serve in no capacity whatsoever. So I figured I'd tell you, because your friend needs to be confused and then (hopefully) figure it out for themselves, like any self respecting... um... figureitoutforthemselfer.

[ 18-02-2002: Message edited by: Vadrice ]

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

15:09 / 18.02.02

quote:Originally posted by Vadrice:

Screw Zen. Become Confucian.

Be both. That's a useful thing about Zen, you can place it before any other label and it fits. Try it! It's great fun.

19:16 / 18.02.02

yeah yeah yeah... you and your... BALANCE. ~scoffs~