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The journalist is IN (the pub)

 
 
Sax
06:07 / 03.09.04
Due to absolutely no popular demand whatsoever, but because I want to be a quarter as popular as Ganesh, I am starting this thread to answer any questions any of you might have about the media, the press, journalists, news-gathering, writing, getting jobs in the media, newspaper ethics, how newspapers work and what the best sexual favours to offer a good-looking Northern hack with anti-gloom issues would be.

Fire away.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
06:11 / 03.09.04
Conrad Black - Did that guy know his way around an expense account sheet, or what ?
 
 
Sax
06:15 / 03.09.04
Not half. Expenses are one of those wonderful journalistic holy grails that are sadly not as great as they used to be. A decade ago you could get away with all sorts - not to the level of £25,000 dinners like Citizen Black but I did once put through a receipt from a brothel in Macedonia.
 
 
Ariadne
06:34 / 03.09.04
*Looks out from under desk*
Why is the aggro level so high on a daily? I've never known so much shouting. Everyone shouts at everyone else, it's like a Greek family dinner.
 
 
Sax
06:53 / 03.09.04
BECAUSE WE ALL SECRETLY WANT TO WORK ON THE NATIONALS AND THINK THAT EVERYONE ON NATIONALS SHOUTS AT EACH OTHER! YOU CAAAAAAANT!
 
 
Jub
08:38 / 03.09.04
Do you think Kimberly Fortier running back to the States with the Home Secretary's evil spawn in her belly was a shrewd move?
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
08:41 / 03.09.04
I was going to start a thread called "The self-made know-it-all with an answer for everything is IN". But then I realised that I would have far too much competition.

Curse the fucking lot of you, you oh-so-fucking-clever twarts.
 
 
Sax
09:56 / 03.09.04
Jub - Yeah, it is a shrewd move. She's said her piece and now Blunkett's back from his hols in Tuscany he can field all the questions. Quite timely that he's facing the press as he launches the new GPS tagging device. Perhaps he should have worn the prototype. Then at least everyone would know when he was in.
 
 
Jub
13:20 / 03.09.04
Has that story broke yet about Boris and his secretary?
 
 
grant
13:23 / 03.09.04
So, do you guys make everything up or what?
 
 
Sax
13:38 / 03.09.04
Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to welcome to this thread, all the way from windswept Florida, Tabloid Poet Grant! (Gotta love that Grant).

So, we'll be taking questions from the floor for Grant, but I'd like to start the ball rolling with this one:

Have your bosses, as mad for unbelievable ridiculousness as they are, ever turned around to you and said: "No, Grant, that's just too bonkers for us?"
 
 
Smoothly
13:41 / 03.09.04
*raises hand*

Question for both of you: Have you ever reported something you were told off the record? Under what circumstances would you?
 
 
Sax
14:30 / 03.09.04
Fuck. I just typed a really long answer to this and Barbelith crashed on me.

Basically, there are *degrees* of off the record. For example, Mr Y might tell a journalist: "Mr X, who often takes children on camping holidays, is a know paedophile. But that's off the record."

By this it is generally meant Mr Y is giving the journalist the information to act upon, but doesn't want his name mentioned in relation to the investigation.

There are also cases when, say, during a murder, the investigating officer will tell a journalist s/he trusts information such as "a hammer was found at the scene". Very often information which only the perpetrator of the crime would know is withheld from the public in order to give the criminal enough rope to hang himself in interviews, as it were. In this case, very few journalists would break this confidence, but would have a better picture of the story.

There might be occasions when you're chasing a scum-bag who will speak to you "off the record", in which case you might decide to fuck it and print it because they're a scum bag and need hanging out to dry. Of course, this means that it's all down to the individual journalist's morality and, let's face it, most hacks are scumbags anyway.

To summarise, "off the record" is a "gentleman's agreement", not a legally binding contract, unless of course it IS a legally binding contract such as an injunction or a D-notice.

There might also be occasions where editors get together and agree not to publish a story, although there would be nothing to stop them doing it. There was such an instance earlier this year involving Tony Blair's kids.

So, to answer the question: yes, I've acted upon information given to me "off the record", but I've never revealed a source.
 
 
Char Aina
14:32 / 03.09.04
I was going to start a thread called "The self-made know-it-all with an answer for everything is IN". The self-made know-it-all with an answer for everything is IN".

if you steal the title of my book i *will* sue.
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
14:39 / 03.09.04
Yeah, you and everyone else on the 'lith.

Seriously

Everyone
 
 
Alex's Grandma
14:48 / 03.09.04
* another question *

As I understand it, this is no longer true in London, sadly, since the presses moved to Wapping, but in more civilised parts of the country like say North of the Watford Gap, is it still basically true that the good ladies and gents of the Fourth Estate are on the lash the whole time ?
 
 
Char Aina
14:50 / 03.09.04
Dr sax-

how likely is it that a person with a portfolio and no Edcucation would get a job like your's or grant's? i dont know exactly what hue of hack you are under the pink fur... similar to the floridian feller?
i would ideally like to end up working on the crazy stories and outlandish adverbs, and i wonder what i should be doing apart from practising.
how many people do you work with? freelance or otherwise? did they all go to university? just college? nothing at all?

how about you?

and do all journalists really drink heavily on their lunch hour?
 
 
Smoothly
14:53 / 03.09.04
There was such an instance earlier this year involving Tony Blair's kids

I think I know the story you mean (as I imagine the majority of us do), but the fact that you don't mention it more explicitly - even on a message board where I assume you have no professional obligation not to - suggests that you're not the scum-bag you imply you might be.
 
 
grant
16:03 / 03.09.04
Have your bosses, as mad for unbelievable ridiculousness as they are, ever turned around to you and said: "No, Grant, that's just too bonkers for us?"

Yes. More often than you'd imagine. The dance in the wacky tabloids is between plausibility and outrageousness. It's a shifting border. But also, we have this idealized reader, right? The ideal reader is over 60, a woman, with an eighth grade education or below (eighth grade = 13 yrs old), politically paranoid/socially & religiously right. So some things, they just wouldn't get or wouldn't want to read (even some of the true ones).
 
 
Ariadne
16:29 / 03.09.04
Re the drinking - if only we were. The lunchtime drinking has vanished - though I will say that most (all?) journalists I know are piss heads.
I've got a degree but it's in French and Marketing - I didn't do any sort of journalism qualification. Having said that I was a) right-place-and-time lucky, and b) in New Zealand where there was less competition. That got me into it and things just grew from there. I don't know how easy it would be now in the UK.
Practice the drinking first, see where it gets you.
 
 
■
17:28 / 03.09.04
Another note for the off the record thing:
In Scots law, anything someone says in a public meeting, such as a briefing or council meeting is assumed to be made available for reproduction by all concerned as long as it's reported accurately: what is called an 'implied licence'. Should the speaker make clear before speaking the words that they are 'off the record' this revokes the implied licence, so that any reproduction will probably be liable to breach of confidentiality or copyright or both. If they say AFTER the briefing that it's off the record, tough titty. You can then print what you like (as long as it's not defamatory, which is a WHOLE other ball game).
The big reason that 'off the record' still has a force beyond the gentleman's agreement is twofold:
1) It may be a breach of confidentiality or cause you to commit a contempt of court.
2) More importantly, they will probably never speak to you again.
So says someone who just got a job as a subber, and a copy of Scots Law for Journalists by his side.
 
 
Sax
19:31 / 03.09.04
Alex - Re the drinking. As Ariadne has pointed out, lunchtimes are non-existent for regional hacks now. But we still like to get pissed a lot. Unfortunately, corporations are cry-babies and threaten you with the sack if you have alcohol in the building, but I still have fond memories of sleeping off hangovers in the library/my car/the sickbay.

Toksik - education isn't as important as you might think. I don't have a degree. What I do have is a one-year course with the National Council for the Training of Journalists under my belt, which proved invaluable in getting a job. If you're interested PM me and I'll send you some contacts.

Cube - trust a sub to correct me. I didn't know that about "implied licence" in Scots law - how bizarre. As you'll know but others might not, anything said in a public meeting in England can be reported under the "qualified privelege" rule - it has to be fair, accurate, contemporaneous and there must have been a reasonable right of reply offered to any relevant parties. Which differs from the absolute privelege offered by the courts - so if someone in a criminal proceedings says Dr X is a paedophile, it's okay for any newspaper to splash that across their front pages even if it turns out that he is NOT a paedophile.
 
 
■
09:26 / 04.09.04
One of the odd things about this is that absolte privilege is, despite the name, actually more restrictive than qualified privilege. I'm too hungover to explain why. See why above. I reckon it's just because drunks are attracted to the profession.
 
 
Ganesh
20:19 / 04.09.04
I want to be a quarter as popular as Ganesh

Ahh, you want to be the alpha(ish)-male-who-25%-of-the-kids-dig, eh?

What did you think of State of Play, last year's politicos-and-journos drama? Was its portrayal of the workings of a newspaper office halfway realistic or irritating?
 
 
Sax
10:01 / 05.09.04
I immensely enjoyed State of Play, mainly because it's rare to see a British TV drama where the journalists are the "heroes" rather than overweight, greasy scumbags going through wheelie bins and refusing to get off the doorsteps of grieving families.

It was halfway realistic, as well - certainly the office scenes. Apart from the fact that Cal wrote his own headline on his story (which would never, ever happen). Oh, and we all don't work 24 hours a day, either - journalists do work a lot of unpaid overtime (albeit doing thankless tasks rather than chasing conspiracy theories) but we like to clock off at the end of the day the same as everywhere else.

But, overall, State of Play got a thumbs up from most journalists I know.
 
 
sleazenation
10:42 / 05.09.04
And Transmet?
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
23:45 / 05.09.04
How about Citizen Kane?
 
 
flufeemunk effluvia
05:09 / 06.09.04
Citizen Kane did really piss off Hearst. One can only infer its accuracy from that.
 
 
Sax
10:25 / 06.09.04
Well, Transmet means about as much to my working life as Daredevil might do to a lawyer. Some of the symbolism and concepts are nice, but hardly real life. Wouldn't mind a bowel disruptor gun, mind.

And Citizen Kane, as perfect a piece of cinema as it is, has less and less to do with modern day newspapers as time marches on. The news barons are pretty much a thing of the past now as papers become swallowed up by corporate giants.
 
 
Smoothly
12:15 / 06.09.04
Anyone you wouldn't work for, out of principle?
 
 
Sax
12:35 / 06.09.04
I'd like to say yes, but when you've worked for the Daily Star there isn't much further to fall, really.
 
 
■
16:03 / 06.09.04
The Star is not a newspaper, but at least it's not Murdoch. Or is it? I lose track too easily.
 
 
Sax
10:40 / 08.09.04
No, the Star isn't Murdoch. Worse: it's owned by a porn baron.
 
  
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