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Tipping

 
 
Smoothly
11:02 / 27.08.04
Who do you tip? How much? What do they have to do to get it?
Are there situations where you buck the orthodoxy by not tipping where a tip is expected? (I, for example, don't tip the person who washes my hair at the hairdresser's, because I'm not quite sure how to do it).
Have you ever refused to pay the service in a restaurant? Have you ever tipped in circumstances where it isn't expected? (I'd quite like to tip the lovely people in my local newsagent).
Do you have a coherent policy on when to tip and when not to? Where do you stand on the borderline cases? (Do you tip bar staff?)...

Anecdotes and conversationy tangents welcome. The theme is 'tipping'...
 
 
trixr4kids
11:25 / 27.08.04
Here is a tip for free..I usually buy my barstaff a drink when I order my first round...tends to mean you get served first when the bar is busier later on in the evening
 
 
Fist Fun
13:02 / 27.08.04
Tipping confuses me endlessly. I want to fit in with the local tipping culture but I can never quite figure it out.

What is that whole North American thing of tipping the people who serve you drinks? You gave me a drink. It wasn’t too hard. It didn’t take long. I really can’t justify giving you extra. You have hardly looked after me. This could cost me quite a bit over an average weekend and I find it slightly embarassing.

When I am in Montreal I sometimes get hauled up for not tipping.

“Err, excuse me. The tip isn’t included.”

I have had that from one bartender and one room service person so far. I mean, I like to tip, it is just different wherever you go.

I am in Denmark just now and I tried to tip the waitress at the hotel where I eat.

“Can I put the tip on the room.”
“Erm, I don’t think”
“Ok, how can I tip.”
“Erm, well *thinks* people use leave cash. When they do. If they want to”

So I guess people rarely tip here.

My favourite is when the service charge is included.
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
13:15 / 27.08.04
When I am in Montreal I sometimes get hauled up for not tipping.

"Err, excuse me. The tip isn’t included."


I generally see red when confronted with similar rude expectation. I think it is most definitely a culture thing. I never tip, with the one exception of restaurants in which I received genuinely good service, and only then because I usually pay by credit card and, irrespective of what restaurants would like you to believe, the extra section of that little slip of paper for tipping does not go to the staff. There was a large case here recently where the union for waiters and waitresses, outraged at this (given the increase in cards as a payment method), tried to ensure that electronic tips went to the staff. Predictably, and depressingly, they lost. If you want to tip in a restaurant, leave cash at the table.
 
 
Smoothly
13:16 / 27.08.04
I don't really mind the service charge being included - so long as they don't then leave the credit card slip open. I expect to be charged for service in restaurants (but not in shops - although I don't really see the difference; people can be pretty demanding of shop assistants.... Hmm we're getting onto Mr. Pink's territory here), and in hotels. But I do think tipping in bars is pushing it. Unless drinks can be ordered from, and brought to, my table, the normal experience is as close to self-service as it could plausibly get. I did find it hard to get used to in the US, but ultimately it didn't really bother me, cos it's not real money is it.
 
 
Grey Area
13:29 / 27.08.04
What bothers me is the way expectations change...I got used to leaving a 10% tip in restaurants in the US. Imagine my bewilderment at the curt reception thereof on my recent trip to Seattle. It took three days of eating out before I was informed that the 'usual tip rate' had been increased to something between 15 and 20%. Which moves tips into a whole new financial strata when you're paying for a meal for four in a nice restaurant. The tip cost more than a main course dish on the menu.
 
 
Smoothly
13:39 / 27.08.04
Was that case lost, Tez? I thought it was won. I thought all service charges had to go into the tronk (I love that word), whether in cash or added to the bill. That is depressing, unless it gives the staff who don't meet the customers as cut of the tips.

I tend to pay somewhere between 15 and 20%, but it was debate with some friends last night about whether 10% was acceptable that inspired this thread.
 
 
Benny the Ball
13:53 / 27.08.04
Tipping is a pain in the arse. The whole point is to say thank you to someone in the service industry for seemingly doing their job well enough to make your experience a pleasant one. SO when you are expected to tip a set amount regardless or have a service charge included, isn't that just a bit of a piss take? Plus, do you tip a percentage minus drinks, as most places trump up the cost for a nice little bunce their way?

English service is almost universally average, sometimes it flies high above it, but very rarely, and almost always it is rushed, surely and altogether a little put out, do they deserve a tip?

Yes most waiting jobs are hard work and unrewarding, but I'm not a nasty bastard, I don't complain unneccassarily, and when I go out to eat I pay a lot more than I would to cook myself, I'm already paying for the food and service, so tipping isn't an automatic thing for me. I'm not saying they have to deserve it, I'm just saying that some people expect it.

And as for tipping barmen, they can fuck right off!

Makes me want to throw a brick at the back of their heads and shoot them... oh no hang on, that was the Soprano's wasn't it!
 
 
Smoothly
17:47 / 27.08.04
I'm interested in how the tipping culture varies from country to country. Is there anywhere where tipping is rarely done at all?

Two things that can be said about the US: (a) that (compared with the UK) tipping is quite widespread, and (b) that there is (cwtUK) an eagerness to provide good, friendly service. I wonder if the two are at all connected. And I wonder if we extended a tipping regime into more places we'd see an improvement in service to match. I know precious little about economics, but I assume that ultimately it wouldn't cost us any more (and, I guess, cost less for people who tip low, or won't tip at all, and don't mind eating even more chefs' urine).

My dad tells stories about the amount to tipping - dashing - that was required to navigate life in Nigeria when he lived there in the 70s. These are of course bribes rather than tips, but I'm not sure that the distinction is necessarily a clear one. I suppose there is plenty of room to resent tipping.
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
18:04 / 27.08.04
My dad tells stories about the amount to tipping - dashing - that was required to navigate life in Nigeria when he lived there in the 70s. These are of course bribes rather than tips, but I'm not sure that the distinction is necessarily a clear one


It depends where you are, really. For example, I've travelled the Middle East reasonably extensively, where pretty much all transactions (especially where foreigners are concerned) are governed by baksheesh. Rather than a conventional 'tip', given at the end of whatever service as recognition of your thanks, baksheesh - to put it euphemistically - is more an immediate gratuity in recognition of the services you feel sure you're going to get. This doesn't necessarily refer to bribery, which normally has illegal connotations, although it can and sometimes does venture into those realms. Baksheesh greases palms, opens doors, and gets you what you want. If done with care, it can earn you a lot of respect as well.

Non-Arabic Africa is a totally different ball game with regards to gratuities, at least the countries I've travelled in are. Most of these, Zambia and Zimbabwe in particular, are most definitely bribe cultures, and, as most Africans have no concept of the European idea of personal space, what are often culturally expected requests for something extra can often seem very aggressively threatening.

With respect to automatic tipping, and especially the tipping of a certain percentage, it seems - as far as I know - to be something pretty unique to the US, although dear old Blighty is rapidly emulating the culture.
 
 
at the scarwash
20:07 / 27.08.04
As someone who pays my bills on the basis of tips received, I can say that in the US, not tipping is not only insulting, it's not getting paid. In union cities, waiters make a living hourly wage (New York, Miami, Vegas). In the rest of the US, waiters average $2.15 an hour. This loophole in minimum wage is because it is expected that we are tipped employees. From a legal standpoint, employers are theoretically expected to make up the difference if our earnings don't add up to minimum wage. I've never worked for one that actually does so. Thankfully, there have been few experiences in my waiting career where that has been necessary. The standard in the US is 15% for adequate service. I'm a damned good waiter. I generally expect 20%, but as I'm a damned good waiter, I would never do something that would let anyone know that I felt let down or insulted by less. Bartenders in this city make somewhere between $2.15 and $4.50 an hour, for the most part, so they too are reliant upon tips. I personally find that tipping outrageously ($6-$10) on a $25 tab makes me more likely to get preferential service, allows me to request that the bar stock certain items (I'm the only one who touches that bottle of Campari), and occasionally puts me in free drinks when I'm piss-poor or the bartender is feeling generous.

Waiting tables is not rocket science. It is however, a miserable job. And at least on the fine-dining level, it's a job with a somewhat esoteric skillset. To attract waiters who are halfway-intelligent, have a knowledge of wine and their menu, and give a damn about taking care of people, the job has to be at least somewhat lucrative.
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
20:17 / 27.08.04
In the rest of the US, waiters average $2.15 an hour

I really don't want to believe that statistic. Are there no minimum wage rights which ensure those in service industry get, if not a king's ransom, at least an amount not quite so derisively small?
 
 
Triplets
20:46 / 27.08.04
For taxis, you ask for the fare the guy wants before you get out. You hand him the money and go, just give me 7 quid back. Where 7 is a quid or two higher than what he asked for.

"How much is that?"
"6, matey"
*passes tenner* "just give me two quid back"
"Thankye kindly"

The tip being for the chit-chat and a quick, pleasant drive.

As for hotels, I've never stayed in one, so I couldn't tell you. I never tip in bars/clubs because unlike taxis you see them for about 20 seconds total. Beer, money, sorted. They keep that shit surgical.
 
 
Grey Area
21:03 / 27.08.04
I really don't want to believe that statistic. Are there no minimum wage rights which ensure those in service industry get, if not a king's ransom, at least an amount not quite so derisively small?

It's true. See point 6 in this document:
"Under these special schedules, a tip offset is the amount of money by which an employer, in meeting the legal minimum wage standard, may reduce a tipped employee's wage in consideration of tips received. The determination as to when and whether a tip offset is applied, and the amount applied, is made through negotiations between local nonappropriated fund management and the official representative of the local exclusive bargaining agent for the tipped employees. Where such employees are not represented by a union, the tip offset determination is made by local nonappropriated fund management."
 
 
w1rebaby
23:16 / 27.08.04
Where such employees are not represented by a union, the tip offset determination is made by local nonappropriated fund management

And union representation is so widespread amongst waitstaff.
 
 
at the scarwash
08:11 / 28.08.04
No, $2.15 is the smallest. That is my hourly wage.
 
  
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