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Dave Sim: Still a nutter after all these years?

 
  

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the Fool
22:28 / 30.08.04
..I think Emotion is animalistic, serpent-brain stuff. Animals do not Think, but I am reasonably certain that they have Emotions. 'Eating this makes me Happy.' 'When my fur is all wet and I am cold, it makes me Sad." "Ooo! Puppies!' 'It makes me Excited to Chase the Ball!'

Just to counter this marvellous piece of reason here, when a dog brings you one of its favourite toys in its mouth and expectantly expects you to engage in a game, is it not actually asking a question? It remembers a previous game, using a particular toy and is asking you to play again. That's reasoning. It has emotional content sure, 'I'd like to be happy like last time we played the game'. But it has worked out that it need the participation of a human to play, and that it has to prompt the human to get hir involvment. Those two thought features require an ability to reason. If animals couldn't think they wouldn't be able to instigate action with other creatures, certainly not humans. The point being made is so obviously stupid I can't believe I'm trying to counter it...

People claiming animals don't think always makes me angry...
 
 
Ganesh
23:32 / 30.08.04
Not sure if I can be arsed, really. If it's not worth the effort of starting a Head Shop thread here, it's probably not worth the hassle of starting elsewhere. As I see it.
 
 
---
01:01 / 31.08.04
He says :

"The Male Light and the Female Void: Seminal Energy and Omnivorous Parasite."

Maybe he should think about that shit and have a good think about this :

"He will give you space and time to repent. In some cases, that will be years. But ultimately, if you don't repent, you will be punished."

Bloody nutbar.
 
 
---
01:04 / 31.08.04
I'd really love to see the look on his face if he get's to the afterlife and finds out that it's a Goddess instead of a God.
 
 
XXII:X:II = XXX
05:08 / 01.09.04
I'd like to see the look on his face if he ever got a decent blowjob.

Bonus points if it's from a man.

Triple word score if that man is Gerhard.

/+,
 
 
Never or Now!
06:00 / 01.09.04
I'd like to see the look on his face if he woke up one morning and his feet were telephones and everyone from Jakarta had been replaced with beetroots.
 
 
sleazenation
06:59 / 01.09.04
I'd like to see an occasional thread on Dave Sim that focused on his work as a comic creator as opposed to his bizarre public pronouncements and that was posted on by people who had actually read his work and engaged with its various strengths and weaknesses with their posts.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:30 / 01.09.04
We have those, Sleaze. There was the one about the collection of his work being installed in the Canadian Library of Congress. There was also the one at issue 300, IIRC. If people do not want to discuss the content of Cerebus further, perhaps it is because, like me, they read a hundred or so issues and then decided that life was too short to keep shovelling money into what was essentially a bold stab at shark-jumping Olympic gold.

In the absence of anyone interested in talking about the strengths and weaknesses of Carebus the Aardvark on this thread, this may be a very good time to start a thread on it. This one could even be moved to the Conversation.

Possibly it is simply the case that, outside a very small number of people, Sim's status as a creator or indeed a continuing demonstration that comic books readers are prepared to forgive their heroes a lot is less interesting than his status as a comedy nutbar.
 
 
Never or Now!
07:47 / 01.09.04
I'd like to see an occasional thread on Dave Sim that focused on his work as a comic creator as opposed to his bizarre public pronouncements

Well, this was kinda inevitable, though, given that Sim himself wouldn't or couldn't keep the two separate...
 
 
sleazenation
09:09 / 01.09.04
We have those, Sleaze. There was the one about the collection of his work being installed in the Canadian Library of Congress. There was also the one at issue 300, IIRC.

They were both the same thread, and while comments on Sim’s bizarre world view were comparatively few in that particular thread they certainly appear to dominate most discussions of Dave Sim and his work.

Perhaps this is, as you say, because outside a very small number of people, Sim's status as a creator or indeed a continuing demonstration that comic books readers are prepared to forgive their heroes a lot is less interesting than his status as a comedy nutbar.

I guess I’m just disappointed that so many people prefer to pick on the easy target of Sim’s strange ideologies than engage in a criticism of his work (be that a single cerebus graphic novel or his entire 26-year run) to any depth.
 
 
Warewullf
10:14 / 01.09.04
Fair enough, but this thead was never meant to be a discussion on his comic work. It was "Hey, look what he's gone and said now!"
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
10:35 / 01.09.04
I get what you mean, sleaze, but Sim's nujtob ideology informs his work in much the same way as Moore or Morrison's magick, or Art Spiegelman's politics, so I would argue that even a thread such as you propose would necessarily have to touch on it, at the very least. I don't think anyone's arguing that this makes him a shit artist, for example.
 
 
fluid_state
14:37 / 01.09.04
For my part, when I do divorce the man's work from the man (or the cartoon nutbar caricature he seems to be, with all the redundancy that label implies), I'm too frigging awed by the scope of it. Of him, I suppose; the unparalled accomplishment of 300 self-published issues. I'd read his "Cerberus Guide to Self-Publishing", and it's the perfect punk rock aesthetic for sequential art (or as one interpretation goes: Yes, you will starve for your art. And It Will Be Good). It reads like the Fugazi of comics. So I'm fascinated by his madness, in much the same way I see people at the supermarket checkout line enraptured by magazine headlines like "Britney Bridezilla!".

(admission: I only ever read "Church and State", which a friend loaned me because he thought it was "the best read for (my) mindset". By read I mean "got through 60 pages and left in the bathroom to encourage leaving quickly".)
 
 
sleazenation
17:54 / 01.09.04
I get what you mean, sleaze, but Sim's nujtob ideology informs his work in much the same way as Moore or Morrison's magick, or Art Spiegelman's politics, so I would argue that even a thread such as you propose would necessarily have to touch on it, at the very least. I don't think anyone's arguing that this makes him a shit artist, for example.

You think stoatie? I'm not so sure how accurate that assessment is, for either Morrison and Moore or Sim, but certainly discussing it with reference to specific examples would at least engage with Sim's actual comic output more than any criticism that focuses on his prose rants.
 
 
_Boboss
09:09 / 03.09.04
yeah, the last time we had this discussion you said the same thing sleaze - i actually thought you were talking sense and picked up a few issues of cerebus to see where the top storytelling action that everyone goes on about was. oh. problem with cerebus is, it's shit. all the characters are these ugly, mental little mysoginists who just talk about how shit women are without their prejudices ever being interrogated. and then when the strip's done,like half the issue is a ranty 'letters page' where again he just spouts bullshit sexist christ-mentallism. point? dancing dave obviously didn't want his book to be read in isolation from his cracked and idiotic views - he used the comic to express them in both strip and prose, and it's a boring, ugly, nutso read. he's a boring, ugly nutso drinko fundy mental and fuck him and his shit comics for old men. far more worth as a figure of 'kids, look kids, look at the nutcase, he broke his own brain because he thought his small-press comic was the most important thing in the world' than 'dad sez: cerebus is art maaaan'
 
 
The Falcon
12:27 / 03.09.04
I've never read Cerebus, but I did quite like that set of letters he and Moore exchanged.
 
 
fluid_state
13:21 / 03.09.04
it's shit

hey. It's pretty. I remember long moments of wordless reflection, experiments in time compression that captured and expressed an unrelenting pathos that seemed endless, even though they may have only lasted 3 pages. That a lot of those moments were utterly torturous in their banality may give a greater insight into whatever makes Sim so damn cranky. Or at least how he feels when he wakes up in the morning.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:23 / 03.09.04
I have to concur with Gambit - shortly after a round of online debates about Sim, I picked up an issue of Cerebus in the shop and almost immediately opened it to a doubel-page spread of some nasty foolish liberal feminist whores protesting for their "rights" (see, I've put that word in speech marks because killing babies and stealing men's jobs are not rights after all, aha!). Clumsy reactionary satire? No thanks.

I've tried reading some of the early stuff as well: lots of extended jokes about Wolverine and Professor X, which wsn't what I'd expected. "Is this supposed to be funny?" was pretty much my reaction.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
17:35 / 17.09.06
The Dave Sim Kind of Blog.
 
 
Sylvia
19:55 / 18.09.06
"I've never read Cerebus, but I did quite like that set of letters he and Moore exchanged."

Falcon: Do you have a link handy?
 
 
Never or Now!
02:30 / 19.09.06
Here.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
06:24 / 27.02.07
Metafilter on Dave Sim getting a request for collaboration from a Furry.

Best comment in the thread:


David Sim is in no position to be mocking other people for using anthropomorphic creatures to express lunatic viewpoints.
 
 
the credible hulk
07:51 / 27.02.07
I live in the same town as this guy, and he frequenlty writes for a little free weekly paper called Versus.

The last 3 weeks or so have been his long, ranting take on the new bingo hall downtown.

Seriously.
 
 
penitentvandal
09:14 / 27.02.07
Aside from anything else, his idea that irrational emotion can be separated from rational thought is utter cods. Experiments show that when people lose the ability to have emotions, they do not become super-rational, spock-like agents of their own destiny, they lose the ability to make choices. Any kind of choice. You may think freeing yourself of emotion would be a good thing, Mr Sim, but in reality it means you can't even choose what flavour crisps to eat. There's a very good bit on this in The Meme Machine, but obviously that was written by a female void...oh well.
 
 
Janean Patience
15:56 / 27.02.07
His idea that irrational emotion can be separated from rational thought is utter cods.

If you read Cerebus rather than just hearing Sim's arguments separately, he makes it perfectly clear what a vast load of cods his ideas are. He obviously thinks he's making, and proving, his points while the reader continually recoils backwards in disgust and, eventually, stops bothering to note the numerous holes in his arguments. You're just looking for the shadows of the pathology that stalks beyond.

And enjoying a comic that, in terms of character and technique and artistry and craft, beats anything on the shelves. Sim's Paradox.
 
 
matthew.
17:43 / 27.02.07
It's weird. We're supposed to believe the shit about voids and emotions and feminazis, but the method to swallowing that mishapen pill is faulty and at best, comical. We can't take it seriously. That's a statement and a demand.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
06:26 / 28.02.07
And enjoying a comic that, in terms of character and technique and artistry and craft, beats anything on the shelves. Sim's Paradox.

Yup.

Isn't it strange?
 
 
Janean Patience
14:16 / 07.08.07
Everyone has a dirty internet habit. Mine is reading Dave Sim's Blog & Mail, linked above. He writes a fortnight's worth of entries in a single 14-hour coffee and jalepeno-fuelled day and I generally read them from top to bottom, which is chronologically backwards. Often it's deeply skippable, sometimes it's oddly engaging, and on some subjects Dave can be so rational you wonder if it's the same guy.

One of those areas where he seemed able to remain rational was in talking about the creation and promotion of his Secret Project. A response to a retailer’s request for a 48-page comic that could be given to readers unfamiliar with the medium to demonstrate what could be done with it, the project required a lot of research and has photorealist art at points. More than that I don’t know. Dave’s ideas for how to get this thing out and into people’s hands weren’t too bad, IIRC, even if he ignored the fact that comics are in bookshops now.

Anyway, the Secret Project is finished now and has been put on the shelf. It may never be released. Dave’s writing has been getting more paranoid in recent weeks. His prose has become breathless and relentless, like the hammer of fingers on keys was drowning out other noise. There was a while when each post was preceded not by his usual Fifteen Impossible Things to Believe Before Breakfast That Make You a Good Feminist but by a response to a letter from Roberta Gregory which should have been an apology, as she’d been unfairly attacked in a previous Blog & Mail, but turned into the usual Sim Vs The World anti-feminist rant.

The announcement of a planned Dave Sim Celebrity Roast - an idea suggested by a friend to help promote the Secret Project - sent Dave off the edge. To quote:

The DAVE SIM CELEBRITY ROAST as far as I can see was the means of countering whatever positive sales effects there might have been from whatever promotional effort I might be able to mount. "Here read this thick book full of slander and vilification and just forget about Dave Sim as anything but an industry joke and fourth-rate creator."

And I have to admit that I am now "past" any interest in how the secret project might do given that the over-arching reality of the comic-book field is of universal Feminist Prejudice against Dave Sim and, as I say, that that universal Feminist Prejudice controls everyone and everything in proximity to me.

My guess is that the mob mentality upon which the vast majority of the comic-book field is based will ultimately channel itself through an UNAUTHORIZED DAVE SIM CELEBRITY ROAST and that (Oh, what an INTERESTING coincidence) that project will be scheduled for whenever (make that IF ever) I choose to schedule my secret project.


And there’s this, the post in answer to the aforesaid friend, which really feels like the writing of someone on the edge of a breakdown:

Let me put it this way: if all of your friends abandoned you and you were universally vilified and shunned and disparaged and your livelihood started to evaporate on you and your business partner and creative collaborator of a quarter of a century suddenly announced "I don't want to do this any more," and was gone…

…would that start to convince you that two and two doesn't equal four? Would you start to think, The reason I've lost all of this is because I'm wrong – everyone else believes that two and two equals five. I must be being punished because I'm so very wrong about what two and two is.

Watch my lips:

The one. Doesn't have. ANYTHING. To do. With the other.

If the earth opened up beneath the house and swallowed me alive tomorrow and giant flames lit up the night sky spelling out "DAVE SIM IS SO VERY, VERY WRONG," and every Cerebus trade paperback in the world suddenly collapsed into a pile of maggot-riddled dust…

…Two. Plus Two. Is STILL. Going. To equal. Four.

I wish we still had a psychiatrist on the board, because that whole sequence of blogging reads like a mental collapse and a desperate attempt to hold on to rationality even if that consists of maintaining irrational positions. Dave’s paranoia rises like a tsunami... and then subsides, to the extent where the posts at the top are rational and even funny.
 
 
This Sunday
14:32 / 07.08.07
I'm not a Cerebus fan at all, really. It's never worked for me. I respect the guy for sticking it out as long as he did, doing the one book, doing his thing, but it never clicked with me, much.

I feel immensely sad for Dave Sim, the person. He's clearly very angry, quite confused, and he's pissing everyone else off while he goes. Doesn't strike me as funny at all, just sad and presumably, for his fans, quite a waste of talent and skill.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
14:34 / 07.08.07
Sigh.

If only High Society and Church & State weren't so funny...

Dave Sim's collapse is really sad.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
14:51 / 07.08.07
Ahh! Why did I have to click on that link? That's far too depressing for this early in the morning.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
16:43 / 07.08.07
It's tragic because I heard a long interview he did on some comics podcast last year (or perhaps early this year) and he was joking around with the presenters and although they were fairly deferential he sounded as if he was sane and rational and I wondered if he had got over that very bad headspace he was in when Cerebus ended. But this makes it sound as if he never left.

I've read to the end of 'Rick's Story', I read 'Minds' and 'Guys' while dealing with some extreme levels of stress in my personal life, not something I'd recommend to anyone.
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
18:45 / 07.08.07
Geez. Poor guy. I mean I know the things he says are pretty reprehensible, and I wouldn't seek to be an apologist for him, but whenever I read one of his awful statements all I feel is a sense of great pity for someone who clearly has very serious psychological problems.

I mean were he in a position of power and influence I'm sure his awful opinions would drive me into a rage, but he's just a washed-up comic creator with very little influence and a presumably miserable life that is no doubt infinitely less pleasant than it would be if his mind wasn't so badly wired.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
19:12 / 07.08.07
When did Gerhard finally decamp? Earlier 2007 blog entries make reference to "buying Gerhard's shares" and I assume that Gerhard finally just had enough of the Rant Neverending and washed his hands of it.

I have no idea of what the circumstances were behind Gerhard leaving, but that makes me sadder than anything else, really -- the brilliant artist getting eaten from inside by some lunatic mind virus, his friends spinning away from him as he keeps hollowing himself out into something that contains only bile and paranoia.

The mantra-like repetition of the "15 things" is beyond tedious, it's frightening. I'm a bit astonished that Sim hasn't moved Stateside yet, where the political climate (in some states, anyway) would be much more supportive of his, ah, sociological theories.
 
 
Janean Patience
21:19 / 07.08.07
I think we're about a year into the five-year buyout of Gerhard by Sim. I don't know if any reason was ever given on the blog, but he decided he wanted out of Aardvark-Vanaheim. We can probably guess the reason.

Dave is often rational. In Following Cerebus he's positively perky. This is the least rational I've seen his prose, though I've not been an assiduous reader, since the introduction to The Last Day. Check it out in your local comic shop. There's clearly something about media attention, and in particular attention from the miniscule and unfrightening comics media, that his psyche can't handle.
 
  

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