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Pregnancy, Birth and Parenting

 
 
SteppersFan
15:00 / 25.08.04
I've had a search around the place and I couldn't find much in Temple about what is likely to be the most important subject in the life of Barbelite parents (and parents-to-be), so I've started this thread as a convenient place to put it.

To kick it off, I'd like to hear others' thoughts on where I am at the moment. I'm waiting for the arrival of my second child, now a week overdue and scheduled for induction on Sunday. Now, I'm not doing conventional magic to aid this process, despite the fact that one would imagine this event would be ideally suited to it.

The reason for this is simple: in the magical work I have been doing, I've been given the message loud and clear and repeatedly that the single most magically effective action I can take is to focus on my wife. Whatever she wants me to do is what I should do. More than any other ideate or god-form, I'm told she is concretely the ultimate expression of mothering / childbirthing divinity and all my devotions should go to her.

This is consistent with the feedback I'm getting generally when I'm doing magical work, which is to treat the whole exercise as quite mundane, not "spooky" at all, but perfectly everday.

Now, in the last few days I've had an experience which is consonant with this "transcendental mundanity". Every night I do a sort of ritual when I'm putting my son to bed, which basically involves settling him down in bed and talking him through the feeling of receiving mummy and daddy's love every time he breathes in, and sending his love to mummy and daddy every time he breathes out, so he goes to sleep (and indeed lives) enveloped in love. As you can imagine this is beautiful for me and he really likes it; I've been doing this for months, maybe years (he's 3 1/2). He sleeps perfectly.

Anyway, the last few days, I've had the very distinct feeling of having all our ancestors in his bedroom with me while I do this, sort of "cheering us on" and adding their love to the mix. There's a sensation of all my ancestors sending their love through me to my son and onwards to our descendents. I can see the corners of the room twisting away into darkness and the sort-of shadows of loads of people arcing away, like when you see two mirrors reflecting each other. However, there is absolutely none of the usual weirdness or other-worldliness associated with magical work. It's absolutely in everday consciousness. When I say goodnight, I just get on with the evening, feeling happy and refreshed.

I would therefore be interested in people's thoughts and feelings on this experience. What would be useful means of encouraging this positive contribution from my ancestors, assuming I'm not just deluding myself? Do I even need to do any more -- it's just happening regardless right now. I'm not interested in actively pursuing Voodoo, though it seems to me in my ignorance that it has the most explicit relationship with ancestor veneration (and I know there are people here who know about it).

And out of interest, what magical work have parents-to-be done to ensure the safe delivery of their child? Artemis / Diana is the classical deity most associatied with childbirth -- anyone done any work with her?

paul.meme
 
 
Sekhmet
15:04 / 25.08.04
I just want to say that is absolutely beautiful.
 
 
BARISKIL666
23:32 / 25.08.04
The well being of your child is the magickal imperative,as evolution and continuation is the function of the human race.?
Somthing I have always thought is that midwifery is one of the oldest and most honorable professions,the witch burnings took out a few midwives.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
07:24 / 26.08.04
re: Artemis - take a look at Steve Moore's article which refutes the notion that she has anything much to do with childbirth.
 
 
Madman in the ruins.
08:20 / 26.08.04
2Step. Man you sound like you are doing everthing right anyway.

It's someting I am wary of-Involving my Kids in Magic. They are being educated Catholic anyway which gives them a grounding in the importance of ritual (As well as Guilt)

I'd like to hear of anyones experices inviliving their Kids and families and their magical workings.
 
 
illmatic
13:12 / 26.08.04
Hey Paul

As the man says you seem to be doing everything right. I’ve dabbled a little bit in that area myself, but don’t have much to tell you don’t already know – you could set up a designated space, with appropriate items – make offers of what every seems correct – candles, flowers, food, water and see what transpires…We discussed it briefly on another thread and what comes up is that it’s a reminder of a biological and physical truth which we often forget – we did spring from something, we’re not just self contained and self-created, such a realisation might help with isolation, depression and so on. Gives you back that sense of connection. You can find this recognition in other systems, it’s in tantra for instance.

I might add I’m really unsurprised that you should get this kind of contact at such an important time and involving time in your life… I really like the meditation with your son, mate, that’s lovely. I agree with you about “transcendental mundanity” as well, that’s a very important thing for me. The little things.

All the best, best wishes to you and your family
 
 
Nobody's girl
13:14 / 26.08.04
I've always been rather fond of the Egyptian Goddess Ipet, the half hippo Goddess of birth.

 
 
SteppersFan
14:21 / 26.08.04
Thanks for the kind words everyone...

Abs, yes I remember Steve Moore's excellent article from PN (as well as the arguments about it in the group I was in at the time!). While it is an effective refutation of "saccharine feminist" interpretations of Artemis in general, and of Lynne Morgan's position in particular, I'm not convinced it is itself a refutation of "the notion that she has anything much to do with childbirth."

Indeed, within the article, Moore himself affirms her association with childbirth:
... all the varying aspects of the Goddess (Moon, magic, huntress, virgin, childbirth, etc.) appear to have been in place by the time Artemis was identified with the Italian Diana, again in the 6th century BCE... Certainly, it is Artemis' arrows which bring pain to women in childbirth; there's a case for saying that this makes her a worthwhile deity to engage, to keep sweet. Without wishing to wibble too much, there's a certain logic to this (Artemis will get that baby out whether there's pain or not, you need to set things up so she doesn't have to...). Comment?

Ills, thanks lots. I'm using my cairn in my garden for offerings of herbs, flowers and Jack Daniels. And, for some reason, touching slugs. Yuck.

Nobody's Girl, that's a beautiful image of pregnant abundance...
 
 
trouser the trouserian
14:51 / 26.08.04
Paul

there's a case for saying that this makes her a worthwhile deity to engage, to keep sweet. Without wishing to wibble too much, there's a certain logic to this...

I think that's a fair enough position to take - certainly there are quite a few instances of 'fierce' goddesses being propitiated in order to keep them 'sweet' as it were.

Here's a paper which supports this contention:
Ginette Paris points out that since Artemis witnessed the immense pain that her mother suffered while giving birth to Apollo she was compelled to dedicate herself to relieving women in labor.

here's a list of her various epithets, and a page about the goddess Eileithyia which Moore mentions in his article. And an article about Artemis' worship in Athens that notes that:
women who had successfully given birth dedicated a set of clothing to Artemis.

My best wishes to you & yours
 
 
Sekhmet
17:00 / 26.08.04
This is fascinating. Thanks for starting this thread!

I don't have any children yet, but plan to within the next few years. I've been worrying a bit about my obligations in this regard.

As far as the birth goes, I'd like to have a midwife and home birth if I can, because a hospital just seems like an awfully bright, scary, sterile, impersonal introduction to the world. No reason to compound the birth trauma, right?

What worries me more than anything is how to raise a child, and what to teach hir about magick and spirituality and morality. Is it fair to raise a child in your personal belief system and not provide access to other options? Will making them aware of all the options available merely prove confusing for them? When your child tells you about their invisible imaginary friend, do you laugh it off, or encourage a relationship with what might be a guardian spirit? Do you make an effort to instill "normal" morality so the child can function more easily in society?
 
 
gale
18:02 / 26.08.04
2StepFan, that really is a beautiful ritual you do with your son, and welcome to your newest child!

Are you planning to actively involve your kids in magic? My son is 7, he is being raised as a Catholic (more for social reasons than anything else), but I do not hide anything from him and I won't lie to him. Like when he asked me about the POTUS sigil (No Bush in 2004 thread), which is hanging on our refrigerator, I told him it was a magical picture to help Kerry win the election, and that was cool with him.

Basically, my only long-term plan is to do what I can to keep him happy and secure, and make sure he NEVER stops believing in magic.
 
 
SteppersFan
19:28 / 26.08.04
Thanks for links Abs, will be checking them carefully! Just the kind of info I was hoping for. Today has been spent in devotion to my primary deity (my wife) who, er, needed it. Waiting is exhausting (BIG hot curries tonight) -- when we should be savouring our last few days of decent sleep...

Sekhmet, home births are great, but you might end up in hospital with a haemorrahge or something, so we're going the hospital route... easy in Sheffield, cos the hospitals here are really good.

As for raising children, all you need is love. Love is all you need. 'Course, there are many forms of love... recommend Stephen Biddulph's Secret of Happy Children books. Get past the jokey Australianisms and it's solid advice. We're just raising our boy as a regular happy kid; but it's easy now, no school stuff to deal with, and he's been reeeeeeaaally easy to look after anyway. Set boundaries for them to bounce off, get them doing tasks round the house, tell 'em you love 'em three or four times an hour, give hugs and tickles on demand, and always put yourself and your partner first. It's all magic -- intention, letting go of intention and living in the moment, knowing every second of love lasts the whole of your kid's lifetime and all of their kids' lifetimes...

Gale, yeah I can't wait to meet this new one (aaaargh!). We haven't made any big decisions about teaching spirituality. Probably just leave it up to him to figure out but we'll see. Wife's done magic but is more of skeptical agnostic so we'll see. Funnily enough he overheard me talking about magic this morning and said brightly "Have you been doing magic daddy?" I just said I was doing something to help the new baby and he was satisfied. I was raised Catholic -- paedo primary and secondary schools, very nasty all round -- but have the luxury of not having to do the same for / to him.

Thanks people...
 
 
electric monk
02:33 / 27.08.04
Great thread, 2step, and it comes at just the right time. My wife and I are expecting our first and are just bathing in the excitement of it all, and magic and parenting have been much on my mind. I'm interested to see how this thread will grow over time and certainly plan to do my share of bumping hereabouts.

RE: your goddess. Sounds like you've gotten some great advice there, and it's reinforced something for me. My mother-in-law pulled me aside on my wedding day and said with tears in her eyes, "You take good care of my little girl." I took it very much to heart then, and still do. Lately, I've been thinking of it in the terms of "It is my True Will to take good care of Mrs. W's little girl and the child within her". So far it's working pretty well. Transcendental mundanity...best kind of mundanity, in my opinion.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
08:45 / 31.08.04
Just got round to reading this. Sounds like the ancestor stuff is coming through fine, but certain things spring to mind that you could do to re-enforce it, open the channels a bit more for them, and generally give them a nod.

I tend not to position ancestor work exclusively within a Voodoo or Santeria context, cos its not really. Most cultures tend to involve ancestors at one level or another, as like childbirth, its about working "magically" with a biological fact of life. Ancestor work can be as simple or as complex as you feel is appropriate.

The easiest thing to do is to clear a small space somewhere as an ancestral altar, which again can be as simple or as complex as you feel is appropriate. It might be a full Spiritist set up (white altar cloth, white candle, four stones from your garden, earth from where you were born in a jar, photos of ancestors, ancestral trinkets and heirlooms, glass of fresh water replaced every week), or it could just be a space on a shelf where you keep various items relating to ancestors, or you could maybe just continue using your Cairn as a focus. I'd reccomend the Spiritist altar if it's something you want to get into though, as its good to work with. It can become a really organic living space, where new items might be added on a semi-regular basis, a growing physical expression of who you are and where you came from.

Anyway, the point of that is to set up a focus where you can address your ancestors, make offerings and speak to them about stuff. And its as simple as that. Maybe light a white candle to open the channel to them. Give them something to eat and drink and have a chat. For instance, whatever you and your missus might be eating for dinner on a sunday, put a little bit of it on a plate for your ancestors, take it to the ancestral altar and share your dinner with them. After you've eaten, sit down for five minutes and tell them what's going on in your life. If there's anything in particular you're concerned about, you can ask them to look out for you, ask for their blessing, guidance and protection for you and your family, etc...

There's nowt overly "mystical" about it really, fairly straightforward process. Feeding them is a way of strengthening your connection to them. The more they get fed, the stronger the link becomes, and the more they are able to come through and interact. Give it a try. I'd reccomend it to anyone, regardless of magical path, and regardless of whether they are into magic at all, its just a good practice to do. Very supportive, nourishing, stabilising. Feeding the roots and branches of the tree of being that you, your wife and bairns are a part of.
 
 
SteppersFan
21:21 / 01.09.04
The baby came through OK.

Birth took from 11AM induction last Sunday to final delivery by ventouse (with one cut) at 7.58AM on Monday, at the Jessop wing of the Hallamshire Hospital in Sheffield (which is fantastic). Pain relief was gas and air, one shot of diamorphine, arnica (homeopathic remedy).We were back home 7PM on the Monday.

Baby was an eight pound boy, named Malachi. He's in fine form, and was breastfeeding happily within an hour of birth. Carolyn is doing fine, and I love her with all my heart and I am massively proud of her. Felix loves his new baby brother and just wants to cuddle him and coo over him, as we do. Malachi looks a lot like a sixty year old east end gangster, all serious grimaces and rolls of skin. He snores too.

During the birth I was naturally mainly focused on my wife, but when I felt the need, I mentally called out for the help of ancestors. When I went back to see them in the ward later on the Monday, I had a sudden vision of vast sets of ancestors arcing away into the sky above each of the cubicles where the new parents and babies were, with each set of ancestors having a vast party to celebrate the new arrivals.

I feel like I'm just coming up, all the time. My head and heart are twisting into new shapes to encompass this new life and this new love.

There should be photos of the baby up
here.

Thanks to everyone for all their love and support, it really made a difference.

paul.meme
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
22:39 / 01.09.04
That's fantastic mate! Congratulations! All the best to you and yours!
 
 
trouser the trouserian
07:00 / 02.09.04
congrats, Paul!
 
 
illmatic
07:23 / 02.09.04
CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Pour yourself and the missus a couple of king sized brandies from me.
 
 
gale
15:37 / 02.09.04
Excellent! Congratulations to you all!
 
 
electric monk
15:30 / 19.04.05
*bump*

Well, nine days away from our official due date and five days away from a full moon (which I'm thinking will inspire the tides within my beloved enough to bring on labor). We are both so excited to meet our boy and get on with this parenting business, I can't even tell you. It's already been an amazing experience for both of us.

One of the first things a first-time father-to-be learns is that cocoa butter lotion is a girl's best friend. Keeps away stretch marks, donchaknow. So every night since she started to show, it's been my job to rub lotion on wifey's belly. Our little boy's gotten quite used to this and will kick his mother unmercifully if we're late with the massage. He'll even play with my hand as I massage the lotion in, following my strokes with his hand (or arm or leg). In the last month, I've further ritualized this time by adding a prayer to the Triple Goddess to the proceedings.

For any other parents-to-be out there, I'd like to recommend 'Circle Round' by Starhawk as a great source of inspiration and ideas for raising children in a magickal household. While the book has an overt Wiccan basis, I think at the least it makes a great jumping-off point for your own intentions. My wife received it from her witches' circle a while back. I do not identify as Wiccan, but do take part in the Sabbats and such. We will most likely raise our children within the Wiccan tradition. They can learn daddy's G.D.-Chao-crap later on. ;-)

At any rate, I plan to bump this thread every now and again to keep you all updated and hopefully keep discussion of magickal parenting swirling. If I can get away from the changing table!
 
 
Sekhmet
16:15 / 19.04.05
Ooh, how exciting. Let us know how the labor and birth go!
 
 
electric monk
16:33 / 19.04.05
You bet!

And rest assured: There WILL be pictures. Of the baby. Not the birth.
 
 
electric monk
13:15 / 12.05.05
My son and I are now pictured in the Photos thread in Convo. He was born May 3rd at 1:11 pm (or 13:11 as noted on his chart) via C-section. 11's and 13's cropped up with great frequency after his birth, and the female cardinal that's nesting in our backyard has taken some small interest in the boy. It's a magical time all round and Mama and baby are doing just fine. (he's asleep in my arms right now. What a feeling!)

I'll write more just as soon as i can get some sleep. ;-)
 
 
electric monk
13:18 / 12.05.05
Pic Link
 
 
Sekhmet
14:08 / 12.05.05
Aww, look at the little cutie!

The baby's lovely, too.

Congrats!
 
 
electric monk
15:48 / 12.05.05
Thankee thankee!
 
 
Sekhmet
00:36 / 07.05.07
Bumpty-bump...

For selfish reasons in part, because I'm expecting, and also because it's an interesting and under-addressed topic.

Our daughter is due in September, and I haven't really engaged magically with the situation yet, beyond making a few small gestures toward certain goddesses (mainly Freya, but I'm getting indications that I should be talking to Hel and Frigga as well).

I'm a bit daunted by the whole thing, to be honest - my ballooning body feels rather alien, and I can't begin to describe the weirdness of realizing you have a person inside you. I'm kind of wanting to do some sort of working to forge more of a connection with the baby - on a spiritual sort of level, I suppose - because right now it's oddly like being occupied by a very cute parasite. Anyone have experience or suggestions to that end?

Would also love an update from monk, Steppers, and others!
 
 
electric monk
15:33 / 07.05.07
Ah, coincidence. I just bumped the Barbe-babies thread with some new pics. 'Lil monk is doing, well, super. He's just at the age where Wifey and I feel confident in bringing him into Sabbat celebrations. He's old enough now to pay attention during ritual, provided they're short enough.

The following is the prayer I would say while putting cocoa butter on Wifey's bulging belly. Maybe the three goddesses aspect may be of some use to you?

"Warrior Woman, help me meet labor wholeheartedly.
May we know all the strength of this powerful body, may our thoughts remain clear and focused, and may our spirits join effortlessly with the power of birth.

Mother Goddess, nurturer and sustainer of life,
grant this child safe passage into the world. May he be born strong, healthy, and alert, and may his spirit meet with ours in love and recognition once he is born. Help our arms to support him, these breasts to nourish him, and our bodies to warm him on the day of his birth and beyond.

Ancient Crone, Queen of Wisdom, Goddess of Ending,
once our baby is born safely may you guide the one who cuts the cord, and may you help the womb to close fully and quickly after the birth is done. With your blessings may our days of waiting and preparing end with a rebirth of joy of us, our baby, and our families. Blessed be."


Obviously a Wiccan thang (this is taken from 'Circle Round'), and possibly not applicable to the Goddesses you mention, but certainly helpful for us.
 
 
grant
16:17 / 07.05.07
Funny, we've got a copy of Circle Round lying on top of the shelf with the cookbooks next to the kitchen table. This is probably the highest-traffic bookcase in the house (of many, many bookcases).

It gets consulted often, though almost never followed to the letter.

We've (I've) found it more useful with the older kids than the younger ones.
 
 
Sekhmet
16:50 / 07.05.07
(*is slightly flabbergasted*)

It hadn't even occurred to me that the Freya-Frigga-Hel group was reminiscent of the Wiccan triune goddess construction, but... huh. That's a lovely prayer.

Must go check out the pics o' l'il monk. Does he still have the punk rocker hair?
 
  
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