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"Manhunt" not responsible for boy's death, say cops

 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:52 / 09.08.04
After a predictable tabloid frenzy folowing the brutal murder of Stefan Pakeerah (14) by 17-year-old Warren Leblanc, the game Manhunt has been pulled from a range of shops in the UK.

However... now the cops have said the game was found at the home of the VICTIM, not the killer.

And there's been a LOT less press coverage of that little factette.

Not that I'm worried the games industry's gonna suffer as a result of the lawsuit being taken out against Rockstar by the poor kid's parents, but it seems a little unfair, though not exactly unexpected.

Since the withdrawal of Manhunt, I noticed "The Suffering", only just released for PC, was knocked down to twenty quid in Virgin Megastores. Wonder if they're expecting an eighties "video nasty"-style clampdown and are trying to clear their stock?

Any thoughts on this?
 
 
Grey Area
12:17 / 09.08.04
I recall an interview with a police officer where he said that the game had an 18 certificate, so it shouldn't be in the possession of either victim or perpetrator. This just sounds like yet another case of the parents not caring about what their children buy and then trying to move the responsibility to the manufacturers with the tired excuse of "well if they didn't make those games we wouldn't have to watch out for them!". Parents have a duty of care, and this includes taking an interest in looking at what little Johnny brings home in those Virgin Megastore bags. Failing to do so and then saying it's not your fault when the lyrics of the CD with the Parental Guidance sticker, or the graphics of the 18-cert game, apparently send your offspring on a killing spree in the name of the great dark lord is simply trying to pass the buck.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
15:52 / 09.08.04
The police have said that the game had absolutely nothing to do with the murder pretty much from day one. Which was both unexpected and pleasing.

As such, the lawsuit's got as much chance of succeeding as similar ones in the US have had. Difficult to shake the feeling that the parents' emotions have been manipulated to an extreme extent by the Mail, and that this wouldn't have come to pass had the idea not been put into their heads by the editorial staff or whoever.

The price of The Suffering being slashed is probably just because it's not selling well. Either that, or Virgin have decided that it's the best way to market it - it *did* appear on the cover of the Mail as one of the "evil games", but probably still needs that extra push for shops to make the most of the extra publicity.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
16:32 / 09.08.04
There's a fair bit of a kerfuffle at our library branches that carry Playstation games to ensure we obey the rules regarding the certificates for the games, we're fairly good but you get to the point where a parent is obviously taking out a 15 or 18 for their kids so what can you do?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
17:41 / 09.08.04
This is a cut 'n' paste of a post I made on another board. It doesn't address the issue of how the Mail decided to try and stir up an anti-games (and anti-gamers) frenzy, because I didn't think I could say anything about that that wouldn't be stating the bleeding obvious.

The problem is that whenever this sort of thing happens, we - as gamers - go onto automatic pilot about how ridiculous the suggestion that the game might have influenced the killer's behaviour is.

And I don't think that should be a given. Gamers bury their heads in the sand wrt the effects of video games just as much as the tabloid press do, which is part of the reason why the press can get away with it.

Could there be an argument for a legally-enforced set of age restrictions that actually works in favour of the inustry? I think so. Right now we've got a complete mish-mash of a system. Some games get sent to the BBFC for evaluation. Most don't. Instead of the BBFC's (theoretically) enforcable ratings, the majority of titles end up with ELSPA ones (or PEGI now, unless it's changed again). These are quite obviously an absolute joke. I've got Pokemon Ruby sitting in front of me, and on the box is a 3+ PEGI stamp. Why? What kid under the age of 3 is going to be able to read the text in a game, let alone play the damn thing?

Here's where the industry really screws things up: no one standard. Like I say, go into any games shop and you'll see at least three different types of rating system in use, and that's without taking into consideration the import GBA titles that a lot of indie stores stock. The unwitting consumer can claim that this leads to confusion: what are the ratings? What do they mean? Is the PEGI system a sign of how difficult a game's going to be? Even if it's not true, it's still an excuse that can be - and is - used. And yeah, everyone should be able to tell a BBFC stamp from one of the others, but the point is that a standardised system would at least prevent them from being able to use confusion as an excuse.

I'd also like to see prosecutions brought against stores that sell BBFC 18 games to people under that age. You get undercover officers going into supermarkets and the like to make sure that other age-restricted items aren't sold illegally, but I've never heard of a clamp-down on places like Game, where it happens regularly. Everyone here's been in a shop when a parent's asked an assistant what the latest game is and if Little Johnny will enjoy it, only for the assistant to grab a copy of Vice City and say that Little Johnny's Christmas won't be complete without it. If not, then everyone must have seen Little Johnny poring over the box for Silent Hill 3, only for mum to tell him that he can't have it because he's not finished the previous one yet.

It's way past time that video games publishers showed some kind of responsibility. If it's left much later, I can see us ending up in a similar situation to that in other countries, where certain titles are removed from sale because of tabloid outcry. Especially given the current government's obsession with pleasing the Daily Mail.


I just think that a unified system of certification, while not stopping games from getting into the hands of people likely to be adversely affected by them, would remove the option of blaming the games industry from the tabloids' Big Book of Scaring Middle England. Maybe - as they have with videos - they'd start looking at the responsibilities of parents and those at point of sale instead of going for the easy blame.
 
 
Grey Area
17:59 / 09.08.04
True. Remember the outcry that erupted around violent videos after the Jamie Bulger murder. People were all up in arms about violent movies and calling for them to be banned. In the end, once everyone calmed down (read: once the tabloids decided they'd milked this particular mass panic enough) the quite sensible decision was made to enforce the age certs.

I think this whole mess leads back to the question of responsibility, and the way in which nobody seems to have the guts these days to stand up and say "OK, I fucked up." Everyone passes the buck until it vanishes from the public eye. People need to realise that you can't just blame an anonymous industry for your personal failings.
 
 
Warewullf
19:51 / 09.08.04
I thought this was a rather failed attempt at hyping up something that ws clearly nonsense. I don't read tabloids at all so I may have missed a big chunk of that oh-so profitable scaremongering but from what I saw on the news in general, and Sky News in particular, "their" hearts just weren't in it this time. Everyone was saying sick this and violent that but no one really seemed to believe
any of it.

Did make me want to buy the game, though...
 
 
Char Aina
23:26 / 09.08.04
mr area, i agree wholeheartedly on the issue of responsibilty.
his mum cant believe her son would do something like that, and she cetainly cant believe that it was anyting to do with her, and so she throws accusations at the easy target.

its a shame, and its maybe even more of a shame that the press encourage it.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
10:54 / 10.08.04
Yes, but it's easier for the Daily Mail to get foaming Melanie Phillips to write a page about how the evil left-wing Palestinian-supporting bearded transsexual European women are doing it to destroy our kids than doing any real research. In the past few weeks they've had a big article with a reporter wearing a fat-suit to show how prejudiced we are against people of size (next three pages: diets) and a big article with a reporter made up to look old to show discrimnation against the elderly, so probably they'll get a reporter to dress up as a teen and buy computer games.
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
13:42 / 10.08.04
There's a fair bit of a kerfuffle at our library branches that carry Playstation games to ensure we obey the rules regarding the certificates for the games, we're fairly good but you get to the point where a parent is obviously taking out a 15 or 18 for their kids so what can you do?

Actually this is something that is covered in precedent under similar circumstances. There is a case where social services prosecuted a parent for buying cigarettes for their child. Through the course of the hearing it transpired that it would have been evident to the sales clerk that the cigarettes were for the child and subsequently a case was successfully bought against the sales clerk.

Now as you say, you are in a difficult position and nobody in a customer service role wants to stand around accusing parents/guardians of turning their charge into a scheming little murderer. What is the key legal element is a "reasonable discharge of responsibility". As a librarian you have the responsibility to ensure that restricted material is only released under an understanding that it's usage will not constitute a breach of the law. Therefore, in the event that it is apparent that when mummy is taking out the latest slashgorezombierated18 game for little Timmy, then a reiteration that it would be illegal for her to allow a minor to play the game should suffice.

Admittedly you may come off looking like an interfering twat but probably better that than being implicated in a high profile civil lawsuit.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:56 / 10.08.04
Although in the case of video games, it's slightly different in that the ratings sytem itself is not compulsory, afaik. Once the game's been rated then yes, don't sell it to kids. But it's not like movies where you HAVE to rate everything. (Except exercise porn, apparently).
 
 
Spatula Clarke
12:25 / 11.08.04
This was linked to by a guy on NTSC-uk: BBFC FAQ

Under the Video Recordings Act, video games are exempt unless they depict (a) human sexual activity, or acts of force or restraint associated with sexual activity, or (b) mutilation or torture of, or other acts of gross violence towards, humans or animals, or (c) human genital organs or urinary or excretory functions, or (d) are likely to stimulate or encourage sex, violence, or criminal activity. Because most video games do not realistically depict humans or animals, they are exempt, but many video game distributors prefer to submit their games to the Board for classification in borderline cases. However, the industry itself has also become concerned with the accessibility and suitability of games and has introduced a self-regulatory system of classification for exempt videos which is run by ELSPA.

The ELSPA/PEGI ratings (PEGI being ELSPA's replacement) aren't legally binding and are merely recommendations. The PEGI system really confuses me - they use a set of symbols to indicate when a game contains specific content and one of those areas of content is "Discrimination: game contains depictions of, or material which may encourage, discrimination". I don't understand why that one's necessary - the only commercially-available game that I can think of which "encourages" discrimination is Hooligans: Riot over Europe, and that was widely disowned by the industry anyway.
 
 
Grey Area
13:55 / 11.08.04
Some games that are set in historic periods, such as Soldier of the Raj, would contain material that could be viewed as contributing to a negative perception of certain races (punka wallahs and rickshaw men kow-towing to a white officer for instance). There might be some use of symbols that are associated with racism or discrimination (such as the use of nazi symbols in the Wolfenstein games).

The logic would be that an individual playig these games could assume that due to their inclusion it is OK to continue making reference to or adopt such attitudes outside the gaming context. Admittedly it would take a very impressionable individual to actually end up doing this, but the need to cover for the eventuality exists.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
17:45 / 11.08.04
Yeah, but you wouldn't point those things out if it were a movie. My main problem with the discrimination warning is that it presumes that all depictions of discrimination are bad. Game X displays discrimination as a good thing. Game Y shows it to be a bad thing. Both games get the warning.
 
 
Jack_Rackem
19:20 / 11.08.04
These kind of hysterias over videogames are common but the outrage and hate for guys like Lieberman tend to dissapate as they tend to dissapate. At least that's the impression I get here with American politics, I'm not familiar with how it works in the U.K. and other countries.
 
  
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