| |
|
Cool, just wanted to make sure we aren't stepping on any toes here.
Indeed, as mentioned by Deva above. It is hinted but not stated that Ivanova and Talia were physically intimate. Why is this, when for example there is no such coyness in admitting that, say, Sheridan and Delenn are making with the sex?
Apparently TNT refused to broadcast a same-sex kiss. This was meant to be in "Divided Loyalties" where Talia and Ivanova "sleep over" but JMS couldn't get TNT to agree to it. Still, in that episode, after awakening Ivanova rolls over and reaches for Talia in the other side of the bed, only to find it empty. While some might rationalize that away, anyone with a modicum of sense can see what's going on there.
On an interesting note, originally Takeshima (Lt. Cmdr. from the pilot movie/episode) was supposed to be not only Ivanova's long-time partner and boss, but also the traitor that shot Garibaldi. Unfortunately the actress pulled out of the series after the pilot, so that plotline sunk.
Sheridan and Delenn doing the "Head-Ridge Hump" was primarily used as comic relief, due to the rituals etc. of her people. But I do take your point, adding only that we never see Ivanova sleep with anyone in the series, even though we know through inference that she has had sexual relationships before - still, no fans are claiming that she's a virgin.
Ultimately, I think that it's a question of the less savvy, more conservative fans wearing blinkers to something that clearly happened.
That doesn't make Ivanova canonically bisexual - it means that there is a possible interpretation of her as bisexual.
Most obviously, Ivanova is not identified as bisexual or queer
The writer of the series and the actress that portrayed Ivanova seem to have a different interpretation than you, Haus, both speaking about Ivanova as bisexual. When asked by fans "Did Talia and Ivanova have a sexual affair?" JMS responded simply "Yes."
It could have done with being more explicit in the show, but JMS did what he could, and making it even more clear when asked after the fact should remove the doubt here.
but the price of this is to suck the possibility of anyone having the kinds of relationships which are providing the metaphorical petrol - most obviously, interracial (in a more conventional sense) or queer relationships.
Except for Talia and Ivanova, who had a same-sex (although short-lived) relationship. But yes, I was also disappointed with how few of this sort of relationship we saw.
Actually, we did have one human interracial relationship - Sinclair and his long-time girlfriend - but because Sinclair is such a horrible thing to remember, perhaps we should pass on that.
barring a few nebulous comments by Ivanova about how much she liked Talia Winters.
She said "I think I loved Talia" and in the context, it's difficult to construe this as platonic love, although not impossible.
it is first obscured and then quashed by the power of Marcus Cole, who functions perhaps as both a physical and metaphorical beard. When we get to "Sleeping in Light", we discover that Cole's body is still in suspended animation at Ivanova's request in hope of the resurrection - his sacrifical reinscription of Ivanova as the recipient of heterosexual love has been enshrined as her romantic arc.
I disagree. Even after Marcus's sacrifice, Ivanova never gave any indication that she had been in love with him. Certainly they became close over that story arc, but Ivanova herself said that his love was unrequited, and her statements after his death "I should have at least boffed him once" are more about her inconsiderate and hostile attitude towards him most time, I think. She felt regret for not being more kind to him, and felt unworthy of his sacrifice, perhaps. Obviously the opinions that you state above are also something that is inferred, not something explicit. How the arc manages to override an intended sexual relationship with Talia through an explicitly non-sexual relationship with Marcus, I don't know.
But this is the problem, isn't it? The assumption that once a bisexual is romantically linked with someone of the opposite sex they are now hererosexual. Obviously I have a personal stake in this, but as a bisexual man that is in a monogamous relationship with a woman, too often people assume that somehow makes me heterosexual. It doesn't, and neither does it similarly make a fictional character magically heterosexual.
Compare that to the number of episodes with visible heterosexual relationships), I'm inclined to be a bit less forgiving.
I take your point here. I gather that a lot of queer content fell out of B5 for a number of reasons, for example, I just found this:
"Delenn was originally going to be a male character. The "transformation" at the start of season 2 would have been from a male character to a female character - both incarnations were to have been played by Mira Furlan. This is why, in the pilot, Delenn's appearance is much more severe and masculine than in the first series. The plan was to electronically modulate Furlan's voice into a lower register, so her voice would sound male. JMS wasn't happy with the results, so the male-to-female idea was dropped; Furlan's unaltered voice was used for the pilot, and her makeup was made more feminine for the series."
The more I read about this, the more disappointed I am that so much of this stuff didn't make it through to the actual show.
But yes, I also think that TNT has a lot to do with changes made in this respect. I don't know if either of you spent any length of time watching horrible US cable TV in the 90's, but I did. Not something to be proud of, I know, but I was young. TNT is/was an impressively mundane channel, carrying little in the way of home-brew programming and repeating the most dire TV shows of the past decade. I think they showed "Wings" if that means anything to you. As a result I never saw B5 when originally aired, as I assumed that any sci-fi show TNT made (or in fact anything the aired) would be cack. No surprise that they pussied out of some of this stuff, then.
I mean, lack of specificity about homo/hetero/bi is a symptom of raging heterocentrism as well as of queer utopia, isn't it?
Really? I tend to find most heterocentric types feel the need to constantly and loudly proclaim their hetero status. But this is my personal experience.
Now I have to wonder, since people are seeing B5 as a failure in this sense, what about Buffy? There is one "main" character from a racial minority in the entire run of the show, not a single hispanic character (Kennedy? Who's Kennedy?) even though the show is set in California which has a sizable hispanic population. I also have problems with how Willow's sexuality is approached, but that's a whole other kettle of fish. |
|
|
