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Millennium

 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
09:56 / 31.07.04
Millenium. Chris Carter (no, not That etc...)'s first (afaik) thing that wasn't the X-Files. Lance Henriksen plays a profiler with almost-psychic abilities.

To be honest, Season 2 of Millenium was some of the best TV I ever saw (especially the last episode... without a doubt, the greatest episode of any programme ever, with the possible exception of the last episode of Edge Of Darkness) which made Season 3 seem a little pointless and anticlimactic to me at the time. As a result, I tended to chuck the first season back in the bucket of "nice idea, but the same every week bad TV shit".

However... season 1's just come out on DVD, and I've started watching 'em anew... and they're fucking ace!

Yeah, the script's a bit woolly (but, y'know, so was that X thingy that Carter did too, and nobody dissed THAT for it)- also in retrospect, there's a lot more going on in each episode than I realised at the time (the Polaroids, for example, which IIRC don't actually mean shit until Season 3)...

...and it's all horribly dark, and yet made it to three seasons, which is better than most programmes I like. At its worst, it was like a shortened "Manhunter" every week... at its best, it was like the most sinister of the X-Files but without the comic relief.

And Lance Henriksen is ace.

Ups and downs, obviously, but it really should have been given more time to develop (especially Season 2, which should have presaged an entire Apocalypse series on its own, but they had to play it kind of safe...).

I'm just looking forward to the Season 2 box- because, lest we forget, that season's last episode had the BEST EVER USE OF PATTI SMITH'S "HORSES" IN A TV THINGY EVER.

Did anyone else watch this? Or was it just me, which is why it's been fucking hard to get hold of until they decided that X-Files fans, having run out of their fave stuff, might be up for buying some more stuff from the same guy?

Obviously, post-millennium, the sense of impending doom should have dated this right back up its own ass... but it's (actually not that) surprising how well the pre-Y2K paranoia can map onto the post-9/11 paranoia.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
10:34 / 31.07.04
Well, the people that wrote most of season two went off to do Space : Above and Around and Through the Square Window which accounts for the tits uppedness of s3. They were the ones that helped to establish the bones of the proper conspiracy in X-Files that emerged during the late second and third seasons.

But there's a mini-arc towards the end of the first series involving what appears to be the genuine, shit-yer-pants scary devil taking an interest in Frank, with a very amoral and not cuddly at all heaven stepping in an episode later to save his soul, I'm amazed it made it to the end of s.2 before network forced it to turn shit.
 
 
Catjerome
12:14 / 31.07.04
Season 2 was _fantastic_. "Midnight of the Century" is still one of my all-time favorite episodes of anything - so beautifully done, so haunting.

My friends and I used to watch the show every Friday in college - it was rock solid! We still quote "Awright! My gun jammed!" from time to time (from the Jose Chung episode). I loved how the miniarcs - Owls and Roosters, the occasional ominous warning about bad stuff coming in the future - gave hints at something vast and awful but could still be enjoyed in their own little space.

I didn't watch enough of season 1 to appreciate it. It always seemed a bit too serial-killer-of-the-week for my taste. But now that it's on DVD, I think I might give it another shot.

And the less said about season 3, the happier I'll be. After season 2's finale, season 3 felt like bad fanfiction.
 
 
doglikesparky
19:51 / 31.07.04
Gotta agree with everything that's been said here. Loved the show, watched it avidly when it was on and could never really understand why the X-Files was so much more popular than this. (I mean, I understood why it was but just didn't agree.)
The second season finale was indeed, some of the very finest television ever. Apparently, the guys (Glen Morgan and James Wong) who were in charge of the 2nd season were removed from that position when the X-Files finished and Chris Carter announced he'd be 'properly' returning to Millennium to helm it again as he had at the start. By all accounts M&W were less than pleased and thus wrote the finale as one of the most destructive pieces of TV ever as a protest of sorts and to leave Carter the unenviable position of having to pick up the pieces and carry on.
Of course, that whole story could just be TV myth, I dunno.
Either way, classic stuff all round.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
22:33 / 31.07.04
I thought Space: Above and Beyond predated Millennium? It was certainly screened first in the UK.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
05:07 / 01.08.04
I've been waiting for years for the DVD set to come out...so of course I was there on release day to buy it! I'm so happy now that I can relive probably one of my most favorite shows.

Season 1 definitely has some stellar episodes: Gehenna, Wild and The Innocent, The Well-Worn Lock, Maranatha, Powers, Principalities....Jesus, Lucy Butler, Frank's continuing nemesis...my god, that episode is Frightening.

It's good that Season 1 finally broke the habit of serial killer stories about half way through...leading to the amazing Season 2. Owls is probably the best episode out of all 3 seasons for me. It just rocks from the first scene...I wish the whole show had been like this. Roosters is amazing as well...simply because half of it is old guys talking about philosophy, and the other half is vicious nazi killers and big explosions.

er...sorry...went all fanboy there.

The much maligned Season 3 did have some really cool episodes. "Through A Glass, Darkly" is definitely one of my all time favorite bits of TV...some powerful writing in that one.

Anyway...I was so glad to see a thread about this show. It certainly deserves it!
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
05:09 / 01.08.04
Oh, and I like the use of Patti Smith's "Dancing Barefoot" better. That episode is spot on...just completely solid from top to bottom.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:01 / 01.08.04
My viewing of it first time round was a little patchy (about half of Season One, bits of Season Two that a friend had on cable and showed me his favourites, and very little of Season Three)... I have yet to see a couple of the things you've mentioned thus far, but I'm WELL looking forward to them.

Something occurred to me while watching 5-2-2-6-6-6 (the bomber one, I think it's episode 5)- Black's a lot like John Constantine, not so much in his character but in the way that different writers have different takes on him- sometimes he's almost a prophet, at other times merely an uncannily accurate profiler. None of the interpretations fuck with any of the others, but they make for more variety, and ultimately better stories.

I'm really pacing myself with this one. I still have 17 episodes to go, and I don't wanna spoil it all by splurging.

On a related note- why THE FUCK is Space:Above And Beyond not out as a DVD set, eh? My VHSs are getting REALLY fucking old, now. And yes, the critics who said it was merely Tour Of Duty in space were right... but, imho, the only thing wrong with Tour Of Duty was that it wasn't in space; ergo S:A&B RULED. (And Vansen was hot, obviously, but that's a minor point.)
 
 
Pants Payroll
04:06 / 02.08.04
Fantastic! I didnt know the dvd's were finally out. I searched around online a few months ago for info, but all I could come up with was chinese bootleg dvd's of dubious quality. Earlier this weekend it had crossed my mind again "when will they get around to...". I'm heading out to buy this tomorrow.

Season 3 wasnt total shit, but it sure wasnt the same. They might as well have changed the name of the show. As far as Im concerned, that final shot of a white-haired Frank in the woods at the end of season 2 was the end of the series. I still remember my shock and dismay as I watched the first episode of season 3. "...what the hell..."

and ps - whats Chris Carter up to these days?
 
 
cusm
21:48 / 02.08.04
Its out on DVD?

*JOY*

Rushing off to Amazon with me...
 
 
MJ-12
03:36 / 15.02.05
So I was sick this weekend, barely able to breath, sweating my own body weight about once every 12 hours, when the doorbell rang. I threw on some pants and staggered down to the front door, to find that my season 2 DVD's had arrived, and figured, well, I'm sure as shit not going to get any work done about now, so let's just suck down some cough syrup and go through these bad boys.

A few thangs on S1 & S2

Trivial:
Giebelhouse could totally kick Sipowicz's ass, but that really is so obvious that I don't feel that I need to belabour the point.

Henrikson is such a talented actor, why, Oh Lord, why has he been relegated to so many sub-B films?

A couple probs:
With the group being as powerful/influential as it is, why the hell do they end up sequestering Lara in what is essentially a Motel 6? Surely this isn't the first time that they've had a newly initiated member freak? They could at least put her in a Days Inn...

I'm really not clear on how the Owls could develop from the tradition that is suggested in the background/mythology of the group. Help me out on this one, Stoatie.

Less trivial:
Having watched it about eighteen times in the last couple of days, the end of S2 with Lara still is stunning, but in a context where I'm used to seeing movies as opposed to TV it seems less so. I think that to get the full impact you need to see it sandwiched between the utter banality of commercials for SUVs and toilet paper. 'still damn near blew the eyes out of my head, though.

I actually think S1 holds up surprisingly well in comparison (having watched that over Christmas, because what better way to celebrate the Nativity of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ than to sit through 14 hours of extreme psychosis?). The "serial killer of the week" bit seems like it's been overplayed. I'm only really seeing it in less than half of the episodes of s1. The basic story of Covenant could have been played as an episode of [insert series name] without losing much (except of course, Lance). I'd really recalled S2 as superior to S1, but I'd seen them rather spottingly, and looking at them now I can only say that they are different, but really can't say that one is out and out "better" than the other. Of course some of this probably is due to the departure of Morgan and Wong, and resulting lack of continuity/closure in S3.

I think Frank Black may very well be one of the most fully developed characters I've ever seen, in his melancholy, his love for his family, his anger. All of it feels completely natural, and I really can't seem to think of another character than has been so well used the meduium of the long (c. 14 hrs/season) to delve into the character, and certainly not without feeling like it was a ham-handed "let's explore the depths of the character" gimmick.

Beyond the series, itself, and possibly threadworthy, but I'm still fried:
Okay, here's my thing - I don't think anyone can doubt that it was an innovative show. My question arises when thinking about going to people who didn't see it the first time 'round. In a certain sense it seems dated, but that is probably because it was groundbreaking and pieces of it have been mimicked by others. Anytime I see CSI with the double beat coming back from commercial, I have to choke back a cry of "thieves!" I think it ages better that some other expamples of the same phenomenon (Clerks had influence but really doesn't feel to me like it stands up over time at all), but given it's relative obscurity, does the influence it seems to have had detract from the long term of appreciation of the series?
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
14:58 / 15.02.05
Yay, glad to see someone dug this up.
Not sure if i can comment on your comments, but i tend to agree with most of it...frank is definitely a more developed character than any i have seen...watching these sets is like visiting with an old favorite friend...and that's mostly due to Frank's character just being kind of a cool guy that is interesting to talk to...

he's totally this regular insightful guy that is just trying to survive events surrounding him...

and watching these on DVD reminded me that Owls and Roosters are simply the best 2 hours of television ever put on the screen...completely well written, played, and plotted...
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
17:21 / 15.02.05
I've just started watching Season 3... and yeah, so far there's a BIG drop-off in quality. Henriksen's always watchable, though, and I'm still enjoying it.

Strangely, I was flicking through some of the official Millennium boards, and a surprising amount of people thought the ending of Season 2 was bollocks, and that Morgan & Wong had fucked up the show totally with that entire season... these people are clearly insane, and I don't need any supernatural profiling ability to tell you THAT.
 
 
netbanshee
02:54 / 17.02.05
I went to go visit family this weekend and ended up in the DVD aisle staring and S1-2. Picked 'em up and haven't looked back. I too have the cold bug going around so it looks like the rest of S1 is in the bag over the next 24hrs.

I've been talking it up with friends who hadn't paid attention to its existence and am getting a lot of noncommittal responses so far. Just wait till they catch an episode, I guess. It passed me by for the most part due to some shitty scheduling stateside. I mean, Friday evenings aren't the time to capture the college demographic. Like Twin Peaks though, I waited till I could really watch them before I would commit. Now's the time and I'm pretty happy.

Will gladly discuss plot stuff when I got enough of them in my head. Time to visit with Lance...
 
 
MJ-12
18:47 / 17.02.05
and a surprising amount of people thought the ending of Season 2 was bollocks

The poster doesn't see the world the way we do.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
19:16 / 17.02.05
I think that to get the full impact you need to see it sandwiched between the utter banality of commercials for SUVs and toilet paper.

Or on acid. The first time I saw it, I'd missed most of Season 2 (didn't have cable) and a friend of mine called to tell me that the last two episodes, shown together, were the best FILM he'd seen in years. I duly went round tom his house, dropped the acid, and watched some of the more important ones (Owls & Roosters, etc) to get up to speed. Then... oh fucking hell, it was amazing.

Strangely enough, I'd long put a lot of this down to the drugs. On rewatching it recently, it's still fucking amazing. (Except this time I had more emotional investment in Lara's character, having watched the whole series). It's beautiful, and terrible, and makes me cry. It fits the music so well- the fast cuts in the song's middle section, right up to Frank coming in in the final breakdown of "just a boy... dancing... to an old... rock and roll...song". Why nobody won any awards for that, I just don't know. It managed to do the seemingly impossible, and finally deliver on all the "impending doom" of the first two seasons. In short, it ruled.
 
 
Shrug
17:22 / 20.02.05
Too much tv goodness in millenium to actually rave about with any clarity. But in particular I loved Anamnesis and A Room with No View both were near perfect television.I mean Lucy Butler's horrible unstoppable menancing love and the begining of Lara's drift into insanity coupled with
both episodes brilliant use of music, Fucking Ace!
Season Three wasn't too bad although there were clearly some duds. Still I loved Klea Scott in it. Thirteen Years On in Season 3 was also Fucking Ace on par with Season Two stuff like Jose Chung's Doomsday Defence.
Frank profiling Michael Myers from Hallowe'en and Jason from Friday The 13th and I think categorising Freddy Krueger also was comedy gold.
 
 
Shrug
19:44 / 21.02.05
Hey Stoatie, just to add seemingly there are both alternative series 3 and virtual season 4 fan fiction sites out there. Who's quality I cannot comment on, but if you're interested might be worth a check.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
13:45 / 22.02.05
season 3 has "through a glass, darkly" which is just a gorgeously plotted and acted episode. it's really affecting. super hight quality.

there were a few others i really liked in s3, but that's the only i can remember. i liked the last episode quite a bit, but was really freaked out by the "frank drowning in the tub" one... it's so... creepy.
 
  
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