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Visualization impaired

08:45 / 30.07.04

hi, I got a question before weekend...

well, I've decided (Promethea, Illmatic and other sources are to blame

) to get into some practical work. I've only done some breathwork so far (no brain damage, thanks for asking) and some meditation. The problem I'm going into is that of visualization. After some years of study, I'm intending to do some kabbalistic workings, and I'd like to start with visualization instead of jumping right into ritual. The main problem is that, in NLP terms, I'm mainly sinestesic.

In more mundane terms I'm really bad at visualization, and it's very hard for me to keep concentration in one mental
image.

Does anybody know how to overcome this? Some techniques for training visualization would be very useful. On the other hand, it could also be that I'm simply stupid or coward, and, taking my limitations into account, I should go directly to the ritual thing, as it seem the most direct way.

Any thoughts?

09:43 / 30.07.04

Well, the best way to improve at anything is to do it. If you wait till your perfect at things, you'll never get anything done. I know this from years of wasted time.

As for practical help, depends on what your talking about - if you're talking about concentrating on single, simple images for a prolonged period of time, raja yoga style, this is bastard bastard difficult. I've been doing it for years and I still can't do it to my satisfaction. My ability to do this has improved with practice though.

If you're talking about just visualisaion of more complex scenes ie. real world images rather than abstract shapes, a technique I've found useful is to let a visualistion jst "arise" out of your other senses ie. imagine the texture of an object, the scent, sounds in the background etc - you might find the image just "occurs" spontaneously.

The keu to both of this approaches is the ame actually - RELAX. Don't strain, physically or mentally, prcede your practice with a relaxation exercise, Don't get annoyed with yourself, just allow it to happen - the concentration will come with practice.

10:17 / 30.07.04

I think that Bandler would advise (using the NLP terminology)that you get a feeling, locate it in your body and then 'wait' for an image to come up....as Illmatic said don't strain, just wait to see if anything comes up and then enjoy it

Then you could try to add things to the image

Bandler calls this Overlap of representational systems.

'Magick for Beginners' by J H Brennan also gives simple visualisation exercises ....he gets you to work with simple images of Tattvas and then try to work from there

Herbie Brennan even suplies a card with the symbols on for you to practice with

Hope that is of some use to you

Joe

10:36 / 30.07.04

Hmmm, don't really rate Brennan - his books are very old, and he states that the infernal raja yoga type exercises refered to above are easy. Having said that, might be a fun book to play with.

A better buy IMHO, if you're in book buying mood, would be John Mumford's Kundalini and Chakra Workbook - he emphasis the relaxation/"do easy" side of things.

13:33 / 30.07.04

I would also suggest some of the training techniques outlined in Liber Null by Carroll. Another thing is that you can always start small and work your way up. Ever have a picture on the wall, or something on a shelf that seemed to be there for as long as you can remember? Then you move it or something happens to it and it isn't there anymore, but sometimes you still see it there? Try creating that same feeling with something, anything on your own. I think another helpfull thing for visualization can actually be closing your eyes. Huh? Closing your eyes to visualize something? Yeah. Sit in a familiar room and look around you; then close your eyes and 'see' the same room, only this time add something that wasn't there when your eyes were open. Say Superman for example, something that would really stick out. Hope this helped at least a little.

05:36 / 31.07.04

Good advice so far. I'll add that it can help to take a small mundane object and study it for a time, and then close your eyes and try to reproduce the object in your mind's eye. After you work like this for awhile, it is challenging to try to see the object from different viewpoints at the same time.

Unconditional Love

10:36 / 31.07.04

an other approach take up playing 3d computer games for at least 1 hour everyday. your visualisations may become graphical and so will your dream content eventually, but it will help you to visualise. or watch movies in a darkened room with no other point of focus. for both become aware of the relationship between your eyes and the screen focus on how your eyes assimilate the information, become very aware of the act of seeing as you concentrate on these media, notice how it feels in your brain, after each session of intense watching retire to a darkened room and recall the content of what you have just been absorbing. poronographic material will heighten the focus.

13:00 / 31.07.04

In NLP terms, everybody experiences synesthesia. It's one of the ways we layer significance into our representation of life. I'd need to know more about how you specifically experience the synesthesia in order to suggest what might be worth trying.

*

16:24 / 31.07.04

Er, kinesthetic, I think, was the intention.

Anyone done any work on using senses other than the visual in kabala, western ceremonial ritual, etc? I know I work pretty kinesthetically, and I don't think it makes my work necessarily less effective. I agree with the suggestion that you might find it helpful to focus on the sensation and let the visualization follow. I don't so much receive visuals as impressions, myself, unless I'm "travelling" in which case the visuals are pretty necessary, but it's very strenuous for me.

Nietzsch E. Coyote

09:31 / 01.08.04

I too have trouble with the simple shapes. Try just describing a scene. Start describing what you want to see and maybe close your eyes or look at a white space like a large wall. The more you talk it out the more you can connect to it. Or so it seems to me.

07:53 / 02.08.04

Yes, kinesthetic it was...

I'll do some of that. The easygoing/use-the-other-senses feels right (and pretty "bandler" btw, now I think I rememeber something like that in one of the books).

No, I've never heard of kabala/western working that doesn't imply some level of visualization. That was one of the main reasons for asking. I wasn't really sure(and I'm not still) if it is REALLY a must or not. I think maybe each one should stick with the most comfortable option... In my case it's more a matter of personal growing. I feel there are some problems that I could solve more easily if I could do some visual work.

I think (getting more NLP now) that a lot of people (more than one third I mean) favor sight over other senses, and my classical lack of empathy actually resents from that difference...

well, I'll try and start working it. Thanks all

rising and revolving

14:07 / 02.08.04

I was completely, and I mean 100% unable to visualise even the simplest thing. I'm basically very, very, verbal and not at all visual.

However, practice and persistence will be rewarded. And, unfortunately (in my experience) that's the only thing that will - all the other hints and tips help, but frankly, you're not going to just "find the right method" and have an eye-openingly fantastic visualisation overnight.

Meditate and contemplate every single day. In six months, you'll get cloudy visualisations. It's hard work, but it does work.

There ain't no shortcut. BUT - there is hope.