BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


SDCC and the Avengers

 
 
Billuccho!
01:47 / 24.07.04
The info's up at Comic Book Resources, kids. Here's the rundown:

Ellis and Granov on Iron Man: Yeah, we all heard the rumors, but now it's official. Yippee!

Brubaker and Epting on Captain America: Now this I'm very interested in. Note the important quotes.

Here's the good part: "If you're a really big Cap fan, I'm going to piss you off in the first six to eight issues." "So, you've got this guy who works for these people, but at the same time when the President orders him to do something he thinks is reprehensible or not the sort of thing an American President should be ordering someone to do, he could actually tell the President 'no.'"

The bad part? "I'm honestly not looking to do a lot of politically-oriented stories in the book, because it is a super-hero comic, after all, but I also don't think writers should really push their own political agenda within their work for the most part." Bah!

And then there's Young Avengers, written by that guy from the OC. Well, hmm. Oh, and a MASH-finale-esque episode of the Avengers by Bendis. That could be interesting.

Your turn. Discuss!
 
 
chaos_15
10:54 / 24.07.04
Finally!! Managed to stop looking at Romita's Wolverine images. Amazing work.

I'm very interested in Ellis and Granov's run on Iron Man. I never gave a fuck about the character, but Ellis has been saying he's having a lot of fun working with the guy so...
 
 
The Natural Way
11:21 / 24.07.04
"I'm honestly not looking to do a lot of politically-oriented stories in the book, because it is a super-hero comic, after all, but I also don't think writers should really push their own political agenda within their work for the most part." Bah!

TBH, though, the goodness of a politically oriented story really depends on the writer's ability not to be too obvious, simple or preachy. I mean, that stuff was fine in the early nineties when I was a teen, but so much of the stuff I read now just strikes me as really embarrasing.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
04:59 / 26.07.04
non-conservative? I do'nt know, depends on what actually comes out. but to my surprise they're letting Ennis get away with a lot of things [thematically] I thought would never come out again after Jemas was exited from the President chair. for example:

Hate America "Superhero"? - By Michael Lackner - FrontPageMagazine.com | May 12, 2004

The Punisher, Marvel Comics? avenging vigilante, has become a radical. As well as taking out organized crime kingpins and thugs, he?s now taking on U.S. Intelligence and undermining support for the War on Terrorism. The publication of these comic book polemics coincides with the April release of the feature film ?The Punisher? starring Thomas Jane and John Travolta.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:19 / 26.07.04
"Young Avengers" -- Joe Q. seems to think this is going to be cool and not the crap we assume from the cheesy and ludicrous title -- I sure hope Joe's right.
 
 
FinderWolf
15:21 / 26.07.04
from Newsaram's Cup O'Joe coverage:

>> Warren Ellis said "As Joe Quesada himself reportedly hinted, it also introduces Icon, Marvel's boutique creator-owned line, into the frame as an opportunity."

This probably means Ellis will be one of the next creators with an Icon book, since Quesada said at the con that more ICON was coming in 2005.
 
 
diz
15:44 / 26.07.04
"Young Avengers" -- Joe Q. seems to think this is going to be cool and not the crap we assume from the cheesy and ludicrous title -- I sure hope Joe's right.

it's part of what looks like a larger push for young readers in January, with the debuts of Young Avengers and the X-23 solo mini, and the relaunch of Runaways with a new #1.

This probably means Ellis will be one of the next creators with an Icon book, since Quesada said at the con that more ICON was coming in 2005.

during the Cup O'Joe forum, someone asked about Warren doing creator-owned work for Marvel, and Joe Q. didn't sound too convincing when he paused and said "well ... it's a possibility. anything could happen." he was also sort of evasive about another question about ICON in general.

supposedly Avi Arad is against Marvel doing creator-owned work, because even if it's successful, Marvel won't own the movie and merchandising rights, which is all that's important to him and the current regime. also, Ellis has taken pains to specify that his new exclusive contract with Marvel only covers work-for-hire, and he's free to do creator-owned stuff wherever he pleases.

basically, i wouldn't hold your breath.
 
 
doctorbeck
12:25 / 27.07.04
that punisher as leftish action hero article, anyone reading punisher these days? is he in fact michael moore with a big gun? or are they just getting antsy because the posterboy of the vigilante right isn't qite so clear cut about who the bad guys are these days.

thanks for the link, nice reminder of what the world is like outside my liberal bubble

a
 
 
FinderWolf
14:27 / 27.07.04
There's a Punisher thread here about Ennis' new MAX series; I found it quite good and not at all 'liberally bent'. I think that article was stretching it quite a bit. The story mentioned features CIA black budget spooks trying to enlist Frank to take on Bin Laden et. al. (kind of a cool idea), but Frank says "No, I won't just take orders from you, because after Bin Laden etc. there will eventually be many people you want me to kill who aren't really evil, just to serve your political corrupt needs and be a weapon of the CIA & US gov't. No way will I sign up for that." That doesn't seem to me to be 'liberal', it's more common sense and characteristic of a rouge killer who doesn't trust anyone in authority.

Although maybe that Punisher: The End (which I believe has its own thread) was sort of liberal since it features the Punisher vs. 'evil corporate fucks' at the end of the world.
 
 
diz
15:43 / 27.07.04
that punisher as leftish action hero article, anyone reading punisher these days? is he in fact michael moore with a big gun? or are they just getting antsy because the posterboy of the vigilante right isn't qite so clear cut about who the bad guys are these days.

in the Welcome Back, Frank trade, there's a leftist vigilante who takes Frank's methods and applies them to corporate criminals. Frank eventually ends up killing him because he's sloppy and as a result ends up killing bystanders, but interestingly enough doesn't criticize the overall validity of what he's doing, which he does do with the uber-right wing wealthy vigilante and the religious zealot vigilante.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:34 / 29.07.04
Back to the Avengers - Bendis' 500 is out. It's ok, fun, nothing amazing but not bad either.
 
 
penitentvandal
09:51 / 30.07.04
Finderwolf - you do know you said 'rouge' killer there, right? It's just I now find myself haunted by the image of the Punisher in a red crushed velvet version of his costume, wearing clown-white facepaint, scarlet eyeshadow and lipstick, blowing kisses at perps as he dispatches them. In stillettos. Possibly with, I don't know, a magical 1970s glam rock guitar instead of a big gun. Or if it was a big gun, a big pink gun with roses painted on it. And lips on the barrel.

And it's all your fault!
 
 
FinderWolf
15:33 / 30.07.04
It was a typo; I didn't catch it. But now I'm in love with The (MOULIN) ROUGE PUNISHER!!! maybe he could be in the Punisher 2099 books. as part of the eternal Punisher legacy.
 
 
FinderWolf
18:23 / 05.08.04
I emailed Joe Q about Young Avengers and this is what he had to say:

>> Me: [I said something about how the Young Avengers thing looks cheesy but I want to keep an open mind, since Joe said it was such a brilliant pitch -- but that it seemed like an attempt to shoehorn a Teen Titans type book into the Marvel Universe] ..and memories of teen Tony Stark still linger in our minds.... >>

Joe: Oh this is nothing like that and it's nothing like the Teen Titans other than they're young characters. Calling the YAs similar to the TTs would be like
saying that the TTs are just like X-Men.

JQ
 
 
Mr Tricks
18:40 / 05.08.04
I don't know if that's reassuring or not...

The TT/X-men comparisons have been made for AGEEEEEEEsss...

besides wasn't the NEW WARRIORS suposed to have filled that nitch?
 
 
FinderWolf
19:13 / 05.08.04
I know, I thought the same thing, Mr. Tricks. But it is nice that Joe Q. still responds (and rather quickly sometimes) to fan e-mails....

All I know is, this Young Avengers idea is either going to be really cool or really stupid. I've got my money, unfortunately, on really stupid.
 
 
FinderWolf
20:09 / 20.08.04
Interesting interiew over on Newsarama with the writer of Young Avengers (a writer on The O.C.) about the book...he sounds like he's got good taste and has a clue...so maybe the book might be interesting after all?

>> AH: Well, when Brian got off the phone, I felt obligated to tell Joe -- as politely as possible - that, although I was incredibly flattered by the opportunity, I actually had no earthly idea how to write a book called Young Avengers. I also confessed that I would probably never even buy a book called Young Avengers unless it was written by a writer I knew and loved. And, let's be honest, nobody in comics knows or loves me.

>> So, we talked about it. I presented all my reservations about the book. That it sounded to me like a blatant rip-off of Teen Titans - a book I love written by Geoff Johns, who's a close friend. Then, even if you figure out a way to do the book that doesn't rip off Titans, there's the problem of who are these young Avengers? Where do they come from? Marvel has no established teen sidekicks from which to build a team. And if you create a team of all-new heroes, why should anyone care about them? And furthermore what right do these kids have to call themselves Young Avengers? Joe agreed with all my points, but he said he felt confident I'd find a way to address them. And if I couldn't, he promised we'd find something else to work on. He was incredibly cool about the whole thing.

That said, I still couldn't figure out a compelling premise for Young Avengers. I'd get frustrated, thinking, "If only the original Avengers had had teen sidekicks..." I kept having this terrible vision of readers at comic book stores across the country - myself included - seeing a book called Young Avengers on the stands and rejecting it out of hand, saying, "Who the hell are the Young Avengers?" And, without giving away anything, that question became the soul of my pitch.

NRAMA: Joe’s also been saying that your pitch for Young Avengers just blew him away, and that it’s the best pitch he’s read since he’s been in the EIC chair at Marvel. C’mon – tease….what are some of the beats that you put in there that freaked Joe out?

AH: Joe's been very kind about the pitch. I can't say much without spoiling the story, but new characters are introduced, old characters are reinvented, Avengers continuity is honored, and new readers won't feel left behind.

I know there are cynics online who are already saying that Young Avengers is a desperate attempt to capitalize on the success of Geoff and Mike McKone's Teen Titans. The truth is, I don't know how you can do a book about a team of teen super heroes and not be compared to the Titans. So, as a huge, lifelong Titans fan, I want the book to acknowledge its debt to Teen Titans even as it reveals itself to be something entirely its own. In the end, though, it's always comes down to characters and the storytelling. I'm hoping readers will give us a chance and allow themselves to be surprised.
 
  
Add Your Reply