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Alan Moore interview

 
 
LVX23
04:23 / 23.07.04
Salon has a new interview with Alan Moore. I've made a pdf of it here. I'll comment later...
 
 
Joetheneophyte
07:18 / 23.07.04
thanks very much for posting that....I realy enjoyed it

That was probably the most political I have ever heard him.
I agreed totally with what he had to say about Bush and the current 'regime'......in particular, I was most interested in how he mentioned that only two generations ago, the Bush family were making huge sums of money from trading with the nazi's.
Moore's comments about the seeming short term memory problem of the average US citizen (which he qualified as a gross generalisation) might be as he admitted an over the top assertion....but to the rest of the world, it sure looks that way. It is the only way we can understand the poll figures that we oft get reported about peoples views about who commited 9/11
(I know polls are flawed and used for propoganda purposes but some of the figures I have read, if true are frightening....thirty odd percent of those polled believing Saddam was involved in 9/11....scarey)

Where I thought Moore didn't go far enough was that he never took any pot shots at Kerry. Whilst I agree that Kerry cannot be as bad as another four years of the war monger....the whole upcoming US election is a joke and Kerry can best be descried as Bush Lite. Moore never brought this up but did briefly state that he thought our whole 'democratic' process required overhaul

Very interesting article....not enough about his views on magick but it was a nice change to get him on a more 'Malkuth-y' related topic

Thanks for posting
 
 
Joetheneophyte
07:24 / 23.07.04
just thinking of Bush , sitting there reading the article

"Scott Scott.....call me press conference.....I am annoyed as heck.....first the fat guy from Michigan comes out and makes a movie that makes me look like an idiot and now his Engerlish cousin starts badmouthin me an' my daddy....call the CIA......call the NSA ....GET WHAT YOU CAN ON THIS LIMEY .......He looks like a hippy....I bet he takes drugs...see what they can dig up to disincredit the fella"
 
 
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09:18 / 25.07.04
I think this interview was brilliant, especially the last page. I'm going to quote a good bit of it because i think it's relevant :

"With reference to my interest over the last 10 years in magic, one of the most useful formulas in alchemy, specifically, is "solve et coagula," where "solve" is the act of dissolving something, where we take something apart and study how it works -- what in our modern terms would be called analysis. In a scientific framework, it would be called reductionism. The other part of the formula is "coagula," which is synthesis rather than analysis, holism rather than reductionism, the act of putting something back together in a hopefully improved form. Once you take the watch to pieces and see what was making it run slow, you put it back together and hopefully it works better.

I'd say that we've had an awful lot of "solve" in our culture, but far too little "coagula." There are people who seem daunted by the complexity of our culture to the point that they'll shy away from it rather than try to put those thousands of jigsaw pieces together into some sort of useful, coherent picture. Which is not to say that everybody is like that. You mentioned Thomas Pynchon earlier, and he would be one of my primary inspirations for that worldview. Reading "Gravity's Rainbow" first alerted me to the fact that yes, you could work with this sort of complexity and richness. Pynchon was an authentic 20th century voice adequate to his time; the same with writers like James Joyce and Iain Sinclair."

Writers who have not shied away from the complexities of the world.

"Right, and I've tried to do the same in my work. Connection is very useful; intelligence does not depend on the amount of neurons we have in our brains, it depends on the amount of connections they can make between them. So this suggests that having a multitude of information stored somewhere in your memory is not necessarily a great deal of use; you need to be able to connect this information into some sort of usable palette. I think my work tries to achieve that. It's a reflection of the immense complexity of the times we're living in. I think that complexity is one of the major issues of the 20th and 21st centuries. If you look at our environmental and political problems, what is underlying each is simply the increased complexity of our times. We have much more information, and therefore we are much more complex as individuals and as a society. And that complexity is mounting because our levels of information are mounting."

Information is the 21st century's primary currency, it seems.

"Information is funny stuff. In some of the science magazines I read, I've found it described as an actual substance that underlies the entirety of existence, as something that is more fundamental than the four fundamental physical forces: gravity, electromagnetism and the two nuclear forces. I think they've referred to it as a super-weird substance. Now, obviously, information shapes and determines our lives and the way we live them, yet it is completely invisible and undetectable. It has no actual form; you can only see its effects. Information is a kind of heat. I would suggest that as our society accumulates information, from its hunter-gatherer origins to the complexities of our present day, it raises the cultural temperature.

I feel that we may be approaching a cultural boiling point. I'm not saying this is a good thing or a bad thing; I really don't know because I can't imagine it, quite frankly. But I think we may be approaching the point at which the amount of information we are taking becomes exponential, and I'm not entirely certain what kind of human culture will exist beyond that point. Except it will happen sooner than we expect, and the difference between us and the kind of people that will exist after such an event will be vastly different than the difference between us and the hunter-gatherer society we've evolved from."

You're saying we might not be able to recognize human beings of the future that well.

"Yeah, it could be a quantum leap, a sudden, massive and unprecedented leap. Boiling point is a good analogy, because what you have before that stage is water. What you have after it is something that does not behave at all like water; it's a completely different substance altogether. And that's what I see looming for society -- and it's probably necessary, probably inevitable, probably scary. That's my prognosis. I suppose, as an artist, one of the obligations upon my work is to try and prepare people for the more complex world, to try and make it more palatable and accessible to them and not quite so frightening. That would seem to be a worthy goal, illuminating reality."

That's the "coagula" part of the formula. Synthesizing the future.

"Yeah, that's it. If you can find a new synthesis, as I try to do in my work, you can help people find new ways of seeing, thinking and dealing with the times in which they find themselves. That's my intention. Whether or not I've succeeded is up to the readers."





I think this is amazing. The explanation of "solve et coagula", the talk about processing and linking up information reminds me of something that Crowley said that always sticks in my head aswell. He said something like the most important thing to do is to find the connections things have between them, and i think he's echoing this here. I was surprised to see that he believes that we could be approaching some kind of boiling point aswell, and the way he explains it sounds a lot like what some of us are referring to when we talk about 2012 and a possible supercontext or shift in mass consciousness too.

So does anyone agree with what he suggests about so many people today having all of this information but not taking the next step and linking, or finding the links between it all?

I think i agree personally, because i have the idea that one of the biggest problems we have is that as a race, a lot of us tend to pick out the pieces of information that we agree with a lot of the time and then discard most of the rest of it. This also seems to link back to what i've read about the Buddhist idea of discrimination aswell, that people cling and grasp to what they like, and then discard what they don't like, probably without taking a good enough look at the big picture. (and no, i'm not excluding myself from these problems, i'm guilty of this too, obviously.)

So does anyone agree that this one of the main problems that we have? Do people as a whole need to start looking at and linking up a lot of the stored information in their heads? And if so would this be turning knowledge into wisdom collectively?

I think that possibly, in Kabbalistic terms, if we need to heal the sphere Daath, we maybe have to process and link up big chunks of this collective information that we have and that this could be one of the ways that we could heal the broken sphere, if it is actually broken, which it's supposed to be. (I'm not learned well enough in the Kabbalah to say that i know exactly what Daath is.)

So if in this interview Alan is right about this, would this mean that none of the information we have can be called junk? Is there a way that each piece of information can be potentially useful and a possible link to something else? Indras net comes to mind here aswell. And if so, does this mean that we should place a lot more importance on fiction than we actually do?

I also love another thing he said on the last page :

"What I'm trying to do is give a bit of coherence to that complexity, to say that it is possible to think about politics, history, mythology, architecture, murder and the rest of it all at the same time to see how it connects."

So, i guess after all that, if you want to avoid going back through my ranting : Do you see connecting information as one of the most important parts of magick, and if so, do you also think that this could be one of the defining processes that leads to a collective 'boiling point' in the near future?
 
 
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09:20 / 25.07.04
I forgot to say thanks LVX23 for making this thread aswell, i probably wouldn't of found this interview otherwise.
 
 
LVX23
21:09 / 25.07.04
Yeah, I agree. We are making a mirror of god in language, technology, and imagination. The closer that mirror approximates god, the nearer the kingdom of heaven gets to earth (to get slightly biblical, but I like the metaphor). The more possibility we make undergo the formality of occuring (to paraphrese Whitehead), the more the microcosm mirrors the macrocosm. The western path is one of drawing spirit into matter, making the kingdom holy (it's always been holy, of course, but our fall into duality prevents us from realizing it - the kingdom of heaven IS on earth, we just don't see it). The evolving technological command of matter represents the species trying to wrestle control from the heavens - to become gods. My questions about the singularity are:

Does it all happen suddenly, or over some degree of time? Is it like turning on a lightswitch, or the crashing of a wave?

Does everyone move up a level, or are many left behind? Is the singularity and evolutionary process advancing some, while leaving the rest to drop off the genetic tree?
 
 
+#'s, - names
21:42 / 25.07.04
You can find the interview here. Sure, if you aren't a subscriber you have to watch an ad, but it's a very small price to pay for a good product.
 
 
illmatic
08:25 / 26.07.04
I think we can take for granted that AM is quoting Terence McKenna here. My question - What's the difference between this singularity and any other prophecy of the "end of time"? Isn't this just Chritian eschatology in psychedelic clothes? In terms of imminent societal change (ie the next 25 years), I think we have a lot more to think about in terms of say, ecological decay or resource consumption than the effects of the "singularity".
 
 
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09:04 / 26.07.04
That reminds me of something i read in a Terrence Mckenna speech somewhere on Deoxy i think. I think he had the idea that we've used up all of the natural resources to such an extent that there's no other option for now us except to go into a singularity. I think he believed that it was definately going to happen because there was no other possible route available to us anymore.

He didn't say it in those exact words but he explained something that led along those lines. I'm not saying i agree, but it made me think.

I'd just love to be able to see how, or know how people come to these conclusions, and why they think that this is going to happen. Maybe they all just got to a point of learning that allowed them to percieve this.
 
 
illmatic
09:13 / 26.07.04
myabe tehy just do a lot of drugs.
 
 
_Boboss
09:36 / 26.07.04
nothing wrong with doing lots of drugs, but letting them convince you that we'll be pulled through a fluffy black hole of fun and information just at the moment that we run out of fuel to run our extravagant lifestyles, well that could be construed as silly.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
09:42 / 26.07.04
pulled through a fluffy black hole of fun...
When you put it like that, I think I can almost look forwards to it, though a black hole made of lycra would be preferable.
 
 
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10:36 / 26.07.04
Yeah maybe they have just done a lot of drugs. Maybe they're just nuts, or maybe they've done enough to alter their perceptions and allow themselves to access something that a lot of us can't.

I remember being all supercontext ranty a while back, but i've reached a point where i can't just rant for something that i have no evidence for, so i'm kind of waiting to see what happens in the near future.

I know that a few weeks ago just after writing i went out to shop at about 12-2am and i felt like i was half in my story and half in reality, maybe continued exposure to that type of feeling opens up new channels to different energies, and it's just a matter of keeping those channels open and seeing what comes through.
 
 
_Boboss
11:06 / 26.07.04
what? care to talk english for a while fireman?
 
 
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11:15 / 26.07.04
NO! You speak French!

Ok, i thought i was, what do you want me to be more clear about?
 
 
_Boboss
11:26 / 26.07.04
i speak bayou french, not french french.

okay, problem words you have are 'energies', 'channels', 'access'.

i know i'm being a bellend, but these words don't really mean much do they? you chuck them around a lot and i think your habit of going 'woah. spooky energy' a) annoys some people and b) occludes your own appreciation of what you think you're trying to get at.

or: can you measure it in terms of 'work done'? then maybe you need a better word than 'energy'. method-science, aim-religion is a good one to remember here.

so to truck with 'energy' - all the hip kids are talking about 'energon cubes' these days, which are like aethyric watchtower-ziggurats, necker cubes or hypercubes, only more transformative.
 
 
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12:01 / 26.07.04
Ah, ok i get you man.

Sorry, i'm the first to admit that i'm not very good at words, and this is hindering me as i'm writing. Ok, i'll try and word it differently.

okay, problem words you have are 'energies', 'channels', 'access'.

I said 'access something that a lot of us can't.' What i meant was that when you write, you can get really absorbed in what your doing, as you'll know already if you write or have written yourself. So you kind of go into this world that your creating and when you've finished your still in that world to some degree, and your kind of shifted from this reality and more in tune with the imagination. So when i said 'opens up new channels to different energies', i meant that sometimes, and this might be an art that you can get down the more you write, when your done writing your imagination, your creative faculties, are still honed in on that place and it loosens up the boundaries between what's real and what's not. So the more you do this 'reality' becomes less familiar to the degree that your mind feels like it's playing tricks on you, because you've opened up this flow of energy and ideas are still pouring through. It's possibly when you get to this stage that magick becomes more easier to manifest and you can see and perceive things that you didn't or couldn't, see or perceive before.

I hope that explains it a little bit better than i did last time around.
 
 
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12:07 / 26.07.04
Sorry, i still used the word energy, but that's really the best word i can use to describe it. It's like when i feel it i just think of it as a different type of energy, and to me it seems to fit best. I'll have a good think on that one and see if there's any other words i can come up with.

I do need to work with words though and thanks for pointing this out, because i can't write with my present vocabulary.
 
 
_Boboss
12:23 / 26.07.04
pay no attention to me sun i'm just being monday. you know you're still my beautiful baby boy doncha?
 
 
_Boboss
12:43 / 26.07.04
oh, and this is a pat answer and in no way intended to be definitive or even particularly useful, but the kind of non-local unifying force i think you're thinking around, try 'information' or 'implicate field'. depending how hippy yr feeling maybe 'consciousness', 'intelligence' or the like.
 
 
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12:58 / 26.07.04
you know you're still my beautiful baby boy doncha?

Well that's what got me through the last couple of posts, yes.

...

try 'information' or 'implicate field'. depending how hippy yr feeling maybe 'consciousness', 'intelligence' or the like.

Yes, yes, that's a big help, i'm being too one-dimensional, i see that now.
 
 
Chiropteran
13:54 / 26.07.04
Banana Bit: If it's any consolation, I knew what you meant.

And I don't see how "energy" is any less specific than the suggested alternatives (as "sciencey" as they are).

~L
 
 
_Boboss
14:20 / 26.07.04
except energy can't travel faster than lightspeed. through madge-ickle practice events are sometimes perceived that seem to require a faster-than-light component in order to explain them. you can call this energy if you want, but i feel its basic scientific inaccuracy renders the term insufficient. i don't think the terms i gave are sufficient either, quite clearly from the wording of that post i would have thought, but at least these terms leave room for further discussion.
 
 
illmatic
06:37 / 27.07.04
There's an old thread here about the word "energy" - I think it's a problematic term as it can mean so many different things - from states of mind to something as tangible as electricty. I think it's useful and important to examine these terms - if we want to have any kind of dialogue we've got to try and get an idea of each others assumptions etc.
 
 
illmatic
07:14 / 27.07.04
And to backtrack earlier in the thread, there's some interesting discussion on Gyrus's blog about the "singularity" spinning off from the Long Now Foundation's free audio of Bruce Sterling's recent talk "The Singularity: Your Future as a Black Hole". (I don't have audio access on my works PC and I'm not online at home so I'm not going to be able to listen to this for awile. Bugger.)

His hugely important point, though, is to ward off the kind of complacency that concepts like the Singularity can engender. "We're all heading towards something we can't conceive... It's inevitable... It's beyond us..." ...so why bother trying to understand what's going on now in the world, let alone do anything about it? With our info-obesity, it's always tempting to forgo exercise and just kick back on the couch, hoping our digestive juices will render all those fragments of information into something we can healthily absorb.

Wise words, I think.
 
 
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08:30 / 27.07.04
Yeah i agree with that. If we have no solid evidence for a singularity there's no point in just trading a belief for the here and now, even if something is going to happen.
 
 
LVX23
00:08 / 28.07.04
Odd though that so many mythologies point to an apocalyptic or transformational end-point of history. Do the myths invoke the event, or do they reflect it? In the hypercontext all time is stretched out like a line. any point is accesible. Could the myths be momentary intuitions & visions of a huge transformational point in our history? To paraphrase Joyce: History is the nightmare from which we are trying to awaken. Though I like McKenna's notion of fractal time. The eschaton is so huge that it casts ripples back into time. Are we nearing the source? Even GM suspects this. His alien buddies showed him the hypercontext awaiting our maturation into 5D beings.
 
 
Charlie's Horse
06:35 / 28.07.04
Do the myths invoke the event, or do they reflect it?

When we get into this loopy, noncausal and rather quite circular view of time, and you ask a question like this, I have to ask - what's the difference? Paul Laffoley, a great modern artist, has an interesting idea regarding time travel. (swear to gods this is relevant.) He thinks that if one enhances precognition to an extreme level on all senses, you essentially get time travel. You perceive the future so well you're essentially a part of it. I never knew that I would ever relate this random fact to anything else, but what a better thread for it, eh?

The relevance is - if the myths simply reflect the future situation, and they get popular enough, we'll see people working to make the myths real. If lots of people perceive the ideas as true, and are willing to act accordingly, then they have a nice chance of becoming true. These 'reflective' devices, when made extremely popular, invoke themselves. Essentially, anything reflective enough becomes an invoking device, regardless of original intent. Does this make any sense?

Are we nearing the source? Gods, I hope so. And it certainly creates an empowering sense of hope in me, and in many people who accept or entertain these myths. But I agree with Illmatic - it seems that the best way to prepare for the world's end/transition would be to act like it won't happen. I mean, it's a very optimistic idea. People have had mighty and interesting visions about it. But I'd rather lean on action and tangible results than an idea. Less likely to land on my ass that way. People who've put stock on the world's finale have landed on their asses throughout history.

Maybe these tangible results will lead to the singularity. Maybe they won't. But they certainly couldn't hurt.
 
 
_Boboss
08:22 / 28.07.04
Do the myths invoke the event, or do they reflect it?

sure, both, but the it, i can't help but think, is each individual's mortality, not the end of the actual out-there everything. there's not really a difference between the statements 'my own death' and 'the end of the universe'
 
  
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