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Pagans...C4 programme

 
 
ghadis
14:43 / 19.07.04
Thought i'd post this up for anyone who hasn't seen it...New 4part C4 series on Pagans starts tonight 9pm...Looks interesting...(could be complete bollox of course)

'This series of four Channel 4 programmes looks at the origins, history and traces today of pagan beliefs and practices.

Programme 1: Sexy Beasts

Looks back to a time before sex was taboo, when humans saw themselves as an integral part of the natural world.

Programme 2: Magic Moments

We still can’t believe our eyes, even though we know it’s a trick. But for pagans, magicians were the consultants of their day.

Programme 3: Band of Brothers

Were the pagans of the British Isles really barbarians or was that just Roman propaganda?

Programme 4: Sacred Landscape

Why did pagan peoples build monuments? Were they simply burial places or were communities staking their claim to the land? '
 
 
illmatic
14:44 / 19.07.04
Anyone who knows me, and still likes me, could you tape it for me? Ta.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
14:53 / 19.07.04
I think that the use of the word "pagan" to amorphously and collectively describe the various pre-christian beliefs and religions of europe is really dubious, especially when it occurs in television documentaries like this. "The Pagans". Who the fuck were they exactly? Where did they live? What did they believe?
 
 
trouser the trouserian
15:36 / 19.07.04
pagan - from the Latin paganus - originally a rustic or villager. It took on the designation of meaning a "Non-Christian" by about the 4th Century A.D. I'm sure a certain Classicalist barbeliod can wax lyrical about the term and its meanings. Is there a Haus in the house?
 
 
brokenbiscuits
16:11 / 19.07.04
i have always understood that pagan, in its broadest sense, generally means a "follower of a non-monotheistic religion".
 
 
Aertho
17:06 / 19.07.04
I think I feel the same as Gypsy on this. In premise, it feels as though someone feels its time to "honor" the "noble savages" of Ancient Britain. They'll wax on and on about the quaint cultural differences between then and now, and how the big bad Roman Empire destroyed their "one-ness with nature". The simple fact of the matter is, they probably WERE brutal people, because they HAD to be. They obeyed animistic belief structures that had LITTLE to do with any "Gaia-force" that permeates crystal worship. Yes, I'm being condescending, but it's for a reason.

Now, I'm all interested in the cultural differences between the pagans and contemporary times, but if this turns into ANOTHER subversive anti-establishment New Age political piece, I won't be surprised.
 
 
Olulabelle
21:10 / 19.07.04
According to the programme, Pagan actually means 'country folk' and was a term used by the Romans and Christians to effectively make the local peoples seem unintelligent and savage.


I wouldn't count on it as truth though, this is the programme that used a blood dripping, four-clawed slash image as it's 'out' reel for advert links, and that repeatedly used images of either naked 'Pagan' women being beaten about the bottom with birch twigs (complete with the background sound of Estonian/Danish/Swedish crossed 'Ooo's' and 'Ahhh's') or the yellow and red graffitied words 'bestiality' and 'SLUT!' when in need of any visual image for the V/O.

Some of it was interesting. But most of it was basically saying; "Why do we think the Pagans shagged animals all the time, obsessed about sex and killed each other ritually, and often? Because they DID! But hang on, we're not saying it's a bad thing, oh no. It's just that today's modern society doesn't understand this way of thinking."

Hmmm. Perhaps I'm being a little unfair.

But only just a little.
 
 
_Boboss
10:42 / 20.07.04
it was a reasonably entertaining show, but more than that it was a right load of old bollocks. why can be shown best i think with the huge confusion over the wolves in the first segment. so basically they find lots of wolfy iconography in pagan tombs, there's a connection between wolves and death which found its way into many contexts, death rites, warrior conventions, all that. so he goes to a wolf sanctuary and gets to know a few wolves upclose and personal for a weekend. so, are we meant to think that pagans actually liked wolves? knew them? hung out with them cos basically they're just big dogs with bad press? what a twat. not once did he stray near the possibility that, despite no record of a wolf ever attacking a human in europe exists, a wolf was about as scary a thing as a village could deal with. if a wolf killed one sheep, an entire family could die. five sheep, a whole community could be wiped out. so the connection between wolves and death should be pretty obvious. no. it's just, they lived next door to wolves and knew how groovy they were and wanted to be like them and hung out and everything. fool.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
11:14 / 20.07.04
According to the programme, Pagan...was a term used by the Romans and Christians to effectively make the local peoples seem unintelligent....

Insert snarky comments about the London pagan scene here
 
 
Bear
11:56 / 20.07.04
The presenter/narrator guy was pretty crap, seemed quite flustered by the various woman he was interviewing and their scripted questions seemed too forced.

He's seemed so shocked by the almost unthinkable act of sex with horses, dude that still happens - maybe I should send him some links.
 
 
Potguns
14:03 / 20.07.04
Thought it was utter toss throughout, mainly due to it's incredible vagueness. And that Adobe after effects filter they put on EVERYTHING really pissed me off.

Shame, I was really looking foreward to it.
 
 
penitentvandal
09:59 / 21.07.04
I thought it was interesting that he argued that the guy having sex with a horse was showing how hard he was - 'a man who was man enough to have sex with a horse was man enough to lead the tribe', or some such bollox, iirc.

Interesting, you see, because it makes you realise that that's what Prince Charles has been up to with Camilla...

Presumably when they make him king, he will mov on to the next stage of killing her, bathing in her blood and serving her up to the rest of the royal family in a stew...
 
 
SteppersFan
10:58 / 21.07.04
Pagans are so hard to please.

Rudgeley's alright, got good form (his Secrets of the Stone Age book is ace). I thought the programe was OK. Remember this is TELLY. It's SUPPOSED to be entertaining. And it was.

But still, pagans get uppity cos it doesn't take the whole thing TERRIBLY SERIOUSLY.

And yet he still managed to get a few serious points across. One of which -- and he repeated this about three times so people wouldn't miss it -- was that (historical) pagans clearly weren't obsessed by sex, but they did have a different and healthier attitude to sex and fertility.

And what do pagans whinge about? "He says they were obsessed by sex!"

Give me strength...

Ills, I taped it, probably have the lot of 'em by time I next see ya...
 
 
osymandus
12:33 / 21.07.04
Re The sheep herds at the time , they sheep wernt the timid things they are now (especailly Rams of which you'd get maybe 2-5 in a herd) and the reason Wolfs hunt in packs and go for the slow and weak ! Wolfs and dogs have very weak ribs for mammals their size !
 
 
Bear
13:37 / 21.07.04
I think next weeks should be better focussing on the magick side of things.
 
 
Glandmaster
15:18 / 21.07.04
Drop that K

Programme 2: Magic Moments

We still can’t believe our eyes, even though we know it’s a trick. But for pagans fnord, magicians were the consultants of their day.


It wasnt as bad as the Crowley doc...

Ive spent a fortune in picture texts of horses to my pagan pals, the religeous sons of bitches that they are ;0p
 
 
Tryphena Absent
15:43 / 21.07.04
Well it was incredibly vague but they are trying to interpret what basically amounts to some pictures and myths and make it real. Considering that I thought it was okay, it wasn't a programme about magic, it was about pagans.
 
 
Unconditional Love
20:02 / 21.07.04
anybody fancy making them avalible to the edonkey community?
 
 
The resistable rise of Reidcourchie
09:13 / 24.07.04
In defence of the presenter who I suspect may know his stuff I suspect this documentary has been extensively, digitally vandalised during post production to make tabloid eye candy.

I'm not entirely sure wht the pagan community would get so upset as the modern pagan scene seems to have more to do with the late 19th century with only a romantic link to pre-christian religion.
 
  
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