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I'm cutting and pasting over a conversation between myself and Joe from here as I felt it was going off topic a bit. More contributions welcome, especially strategies used to beat addictions. Anything from the AA (the alcholics group that is, not the Thelemic Order - though if it works....) to the evocation of Goetic Demons. Also general comments on peoples experience of addictions and theories underlying the "why", though it would be nice to have some kind of focus on strategies (or anecdotes, whatever) to beat these behaviours.
Joe:Hi Illmatic
I don't know. There is part of me that wants to recoup my losses....a silly idea I know but there is nothing rational about gambling addiction
It really is like having a split personality, I have on numerous occassions walked into a pub and been saying to myself "I am not going to gamble today" and at the same time ...I have been rummaging in my pocket for change to stick in the machines
Totally illogical and I have no explanation. It also comes down to greed. Even when gamblers win, we have this really weird outlook that our luck has changed and we are on a winning streak.
I have tried to make deals with the spirit of gambling (I went over the head of th spirit of fruit machines as that didn't work...well that is not entirely correct, for one whole month I totally lost the urge to gamble and then it came back with a vengance)
I have done some recent magickal work that I am waiting to bear fruition but I suspect that my greed and overriding wish (at whatever level) to recoup some losses will override any positive intentions
Crackers I agree but to date, it seems to override willpower
Was it Coue who said something like 'when the will and imagination are at odds, the will nearly always loses'
I don't know, I am probably living in denial but honestly, I have had the experience so many times where I intend NOT to gamble but at the same time my motor functions are carrying out the actions of looking for change to play a machine. It is bizarre and I know it might even be denial/justification of my own lack of willpower but it seems like I am split in two minds
Once that first pound has gone, then it is 80% probable that I will lose several more before the fear of girlfriend retribution takes over and I leave the machine alone
Me: I've never read anything on the psychoogy of addictive gambling (though the books must be out there) but it strikes me that urge to recoup losses must be a key factor, which on analysis does not serve any logical purpose, but is one of the lies the addiction tells to you to justify itself and keep going. Same as we fib to ourselves about our reasons for smoking etc.
Think about it - recovery of losses - in the long term, if you actually give up NOW, in five years time, you will have saved yourself an enormous amount of money, possibly equivalent to the amount that you have blown. I daresay though if you apply this logic to your arguement, you'll soon come up with a new justification, our addictions being inventive little beasties (ie smoking - having a fag "to prove you don't need one"). Possibly with gambling it'll be - "No, but I need to have WON by that amount! Got ahead! To pove it wasn't a waste of time!"
I also stuggle with compulsive behaviours from time to time. I think of these as behaviours as routines that we've done so often that become wired in, ingrained. And then some part of ourselves supplies the energy/libidinal force (I hate to use the word subsconscious here, it doesn't seem entirely accurate) to keep our behaviour running along these grooves, much akin to the experience I've had of hypnosis. I think these behaviours are more powerful if they are built around a somatic core ie. the pleasure of nicotine, food, drugs etc.
The best way I've found to deal with it is to try and remain conscious of what's happening, relax and observe the urges as they rise and fade - what thoughts justify them? What emotions occur? What bodily sensations arise? I observe these and try and remain seperate from them - they're not me -and remember that the urge will pass. This "not me" thing is why it's easy to talk or thing of these behaviours as spirits or demons - and they can only possess us when we're not conscious of them. It's a pity I can't ever seem to remember this when I get past my fourth pint if there's a box of fags on the table, but there you go.
Joe again: Yeah same here
I can be as strong as anything, then about 3-4 pints in I think "I'll just try one pound"
talking of hypnosis there is a good book called Mind Body Therapy by Ernest Rossi and Dr David Cheek that deals with State Dependant Learning
they reckon that at certain stressful times , our brains encode behaviours and loops and these are inaccessible to conscious intervention ...they use the occurrence of Post Traumatic Stress Ssyndrome as an example
They postulate that when something traumatic happens, the brain releases chemicals and hormones or more accurately the mind and body acting as one unit, is flooded with epinepherine that basically encodes behaviour
So in a nutshell (I am not doing this justice here) something bad happens, the brain is flooded with various substances and a little subroutine is created. The person might even be able to consciously recall events but they are not open to reframing or conscious intervention as they are chemically encoded
Something happens to remind the person of the initial traumatic incident and BOOMPHHHHH the person's brain is flooded with the same chemical 'key' that unlocks all the panicky feelings and initial trauma
(as a sideline, Rossi and Cheek assert that they can reach these areas via Ideo Motor questioning and ergo reframe the initial traumatic event)
Now what has this to do with addiction?
Well I believe that you (Illmatic) have hit the nail on the head. I strongly suspect (this is just a theory) that as you state, we addicts , of whatever ilk like the chemical high or reward we get from our act. With you it is nicotine, with me I probably revert to the first time myendorphins or whatever other bloody chemical gave me a high the first time I won some money
Playing the fruit machine I believe sends me into a loop, or subroutine and I am trying to get back not only the perceived losses but unconsciously, I want that HIGH from the prospect of potnentially winning.
I can consciously override this on occassion but this is where alcohol comes into play (though it must be noted that it is more complex than that as I have lost money stone cold sober)
So I go into pub. I sit there for 3-4 pints and then either
a: My willpower is weakened as the alcohol removes some of my rational sense
b: The State Dependant nature of brain chemistry takes me back in time (ie Alcohol unlocks the earlier memories of winning and the high that accompanies Free money)
Or even a mixture of the two
this might all be bollocks...it is idle theorising on my part but I still think that there is a State Dependant part of my brain .....a subroutine of addiction that can often override common sense
Alcohol probably facilitates the slipping into this subroutine and let's be honest pubs are full of the bastard machines so the temptation is there
The easy answer would be to stop drinking as there are few times in my life where I have actually gone to an arcade to play. I have sat in pubs not drinking and still played the machines so the pub setting is a definate important factor
The sate dependant theory does ring true to me and does make me think that there is a chemical component to even this seemingly non somatic addiction
Hope this nonsense made sense to read even if you think the premise is crap
Me: To be honest, I don't think that there's necessairily a need to talk about the "state dependent" thing. I haven't read the book so I don't want to be overly dismissive but I think addiction doesn't have to reach back to one key tramatic/rewarding moment - I think of my habits as more grooves worn in over long periods of time. Repition as much as anything else. As to the somatic thing, I think this explains in part why smoking is so powerful and so a tough one to wrestle with - I'm sure there are somatic components to your gambling, even subtle cues just like the feelings in your bdy before you do it, excitment while you're doing it, whatever.
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