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Underground > Comic Books >

Why other comics message boards make me cry.

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Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

20:59 / 13.07.04

I've been looking about on message boards while at work, looking for the juicy feuds that erput between comics professions that Rich Johnson lives for, and I was subjected again to the horror that is John Byrne's message board.

The first thing that struck me was how weirdly petty people get on fanboy boards. An entire thread was devoted to people saying a variation of "Those people who like those revisionist books are getting there just desserts now that *older creator* has come in and wiped out all of their work." I don't know about anyone else, but John Byrne saying all the old Doom Patrol stories never happened doesn't affect me personally like Grant's version of The Chief seems to have emotionally crippled them, and Byrne erasing it has mended their broken lives. Good for them, I guess.

But I also read a post which stated without irony:

Most of the rabid fanboys out there aren't sophisticated enough to even begin to comprehend how sophisticated something like the Hardy Boys Mysteries are, let alone Doc Savage.

As a kid, I loved those books, and I still have a nostalgic fondness for Doc Savage, but sophisticated? It's children's literature, not Proust.

I thought the relentless "new stuff" bashing on Newsarama and the anti-Marvel biases of other boards was just a cultural thing, but are there really people who believe this? Are these the only people buying comics now? And if they are, aren't we incredibly lucky that ANYTHING with a shread of creativity and intelligence even gets published?

Geez, as someone who writes a comic strip, I look at this stuff (as well as what is being discussed on the message board for my strip) and wonder if I should just start writing for sub-literate mouth-breathers.

21:45 / 13.07.04

Yep, some other boards are pretty scary stuff.

22:06 / 13.07.04

I must say, I'm extremely grateful I stumbled upon Barbelith, because places like Comicboards make my head explode. At least here the majority, if not all, of the posters, read good comics, discuss topics intelligently, and, yes, are frequently hilarious.

So thank *you,* Barbelith! *thumbs up*

23:39 / 13.07.04

i'm waiting for someone to come into this thread and bemoan the Barbe-elitism, in traditional Barbelith fashion.

that someone, however, is not going to be me. if i read Barbelith stuff after spending too much time on other boards (i tend to spend way too much time at ComiXFan in particular, lord knows why), it feels like a homecoming after too much time behind enemy lines.

in general, most fanboys on most other sites are petty, vindictive trolls who not only wouldn't know a good comic if it bit them on the ass, but in fact generally react to good comics like someone just took a shit in their lunchbox.

what really weirds me out is the tribalistic loyalty to certain characters or creators, especially since it usually translates liking a character into wanting good things to happen to that character. this, of course, ignores the fact that characters who only encounter good things tend to be really boring. it also tends to give birth to weird persecution complexes, causing them to say things like "ohmyGOD, when is Such-And-Such Writer going to stop torturing us Remy/Rogue fans?!?!? last ish Rogue got punched in the nose, and Remy didn't get a chance to tell Rogue he loves her afterwards. WHY DOES MARVEL LET HIM DO THIS TO US???? HAVE THEY FORGOTTEN THAT WITHOUT FANS THERE WOULD BE NO MARVEL AT ALL? Cyclops and that bitch Emma got two kisses last month, and R/R haven't kissed in THREE MONTHS!?!?! i'm going to burn the Marvel offices to the GROUND!!!"

01:43 / 14.07.04

I agree. Although I am sometimes dissapointed in the level of petty arguments that at times show up here, I do enjoy the fact that it's usually avoided at Barbelith.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

07:04 / 14.07.04

Yep, we may get bad, but we don't get that bad. < looks nervously at some New X-Men threads > But as time has gone by and more and more people have got on the whole interweb the level of real discussion does seem to have gone down, to be replaced with more "I believe in x, if you don't then you're an arse!" "I believe in y, so you're obviously the antichrist!", more posing instead, and this isn't a comics thread-only issue.

That they're so hung up on continuity is sad (says someone who was complaining about Joss ignoring it in AXM 2, oh the irony!) but it doesn't stop Grant's work from exisiting, which is coming out in trades in the Autumn, and we'll have to wait and see where Byrne's new version lasts longer than the DP revival of a year or so ago. I remain doubtful.

Dan Fish - @Fish1k

07:46 / 14.07.04

The thing I've noticed about the Byrne board, is that the more vocal posters (including Byrne himself) seem to have a scorecard or rulebook which must be consulted to check if they can approve of the latest comic/film/whatever.

They don't seem to just 'like' something, or 'dislike' something - I've posted there a few times, to try and put over a more easygoing viewpoint, but it does my head in.

I still like to visit though, and read between the lines at Byrnes comments on the industry politics, etc. I can't imagine what his co-workers must think when he comes out with some of his gems.

09:13 / 14.07.04

I used to be a happy frequenter of CBR's message forum but in the past year it's gone downhill considerably and ended up just being a bunch of older posters complaining about the newer posters and threads being repeated ad infinitum.
Now I love a good debate/argument, I like to vocalise my opinions (I am very opinionated) especially if someone is blatantly being argumentative for the sake of it.

I used to consider CBR as one of the more "level-headed" forums but thats gone out the window and I do believe that it is in part to GM being off NXM. The (dare I say it) intelligent members of the community left the "old school fans" to Grant-bash and gloat at all the retcons.
A thread about the Grant interview on Popimage degenrated into a "Magneto in/out of character" flame war with one poster stating implicitly that comic books were inherently American.
I had to break my silence for his idiocy.

I've been a regular "lurker" at Barbelith for years. Here I never argue, I never really have to fight for my corner because generally most of you guys on here have something intelligent to bring to the table, even if I don't agree the argument is put forward with credible evidence to back it up.
In one way it makes participating on Barbelith a little less interesting as I haven't usually much to add but it also opens my eyes to myriad layers that places like CBR and X-fan can barely imagine.

I like my new (old)home, and I wouldn't even consider frequenting a forum like Byrne's. I've been told Millarworld is Barb-lite but (call me shallow) I'm digging the pink colour scheme here so I stay.

11:20 / 14.07.04

I just want to say that it's not always the board's fault. I co-mod one of the Comicboards.com boards, and for the most part it's pretty cool...but there are one or two posters who, despite the rather large graphic banning "VS posts", insist on bringing up whether Superman can beat up character X, usually posting rather frighteningly long "respect threads" to support their opinions.

Some days, I just want to chuck the whole thing....

Dan Fish - @Fish1k

12:50 / 14.07.04

I regularly post at Millarworld too, and though some threads can be fluffy and/or a little embarrasing, the majority seem ok - The members I've met seem a swell bunch too. V and AndyDiggle forums on delphi seem pretty cool too.

With all three, there is a healthy quotient of Pro's, but certainly not the arse-licking you will find on Byrne's board, or I am told was prevalent on the WEF.

Haus of Mystery

16:30 / 14.07.04

"Most of the rabid fanboys out there aren't sophisticated enough to even begin to comprehend how sophisticated something like the Hardy Boys Mysteries are, let alone Doc Savage."

Yes. And using the word sophisticated twice in eight words is very... sophisticated.

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

18:02 / 14.07.04

Not to say anything bad about the pros we have here, but I almost prefer that comix professionals don't show up. They tend to change conversations, with either people being too fawning or attacking them, rather than just accepting their opinion as that of another person.

For me, at least, it's hard to slag off on a comic if someone working on it is around.

Unless they are Chuck Dixon. He can go fuck himself.

See? I couldn't do that if he was around without a lot of drama.

18:23 / 14.07.04

Unless they are Chuck Dixon. He can go fuck himself.

I don't care how much drama it would cause, I'd say that to his face. The fucker.

17:07 / 15.07.04

speaking of people in other forums, i just went from the sort of measured, fairly critical, and rational discussion of Identity Crisis #2 and darkness/grittiness/"realism" in comics in general in here, and bounced over to a thread full of "OMG! Dr. Light is such a bastard! i hate him! he needs to die! they shoulda killed him instead of just lobotomizing him! i hope they lobotomized a lot of other scumbags, too!"

sigh.

17:17 / 15.07.04

Not all boards suck all the time, though. The OLD Bendis board (before it was absorbed onto Image Comics' site) was really good, fun, and had its own unique style and flair. Maybe not quite as intelligent as the 'Lith, but still great. But when it went onto the Image board a few years ago, it became kinda lame, but I still lurk & read there now and then for fun stories or just to check it out. It's not ALL bad, though lots of it is stupid. They often have news stories there that are interesting and not found in other sources.

Millarworld seems fun.

Comicboards were the first message boards I discovered years ago (back when they were probably the ONLY major comic book message board online when the Net was young) , so they kinda have a special place in my heart even though they're very different in tone from the 'Lith.

The Natural Way

19:22 / 15.07.04

Millarworld most definitely is not fun, Wolfox.

21:27 / 15.07.04

I've never ever been tempted to even dip my toe into other comics message-boards. Is there anything out there I'm missing?

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

07:27 / 16.07.04

Well, barbelith is horribly fucking smug with itself sometimes (and I have considered chucking in the towel only last week because of this, but a few choice threads brought me back), but on balance, yeah. Millarworld's cool as far as message boards I read for spoilers go.

08:08 / 16.07.04

Just curious, is millarworld still in existence?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

09:00 / 16.07.04

A swift googling tells me yes. It appears to have moved. I dunno... I never used to read it anyway.

When you say it's not fun... does that mean it's not fun to participate in, or not fun to read? Cos John Byrne's BB looks like it'd be a piece of shit to contribute to (although it IS very nicely designed... I like the whole "robotics factory" thing) but can be fun to read.

Actually, back to the John Byrne thing... I can't even read that for laughs anymore. It makes me sad. The guy obviously still loves comics, and his enthusiasm for the genre still shines through, even though he can't actually MAKE them for shit anymore. Unfortunately, he refuses to believe that anyone else does. I don't think he's a bad person... just a kind of "that bloke off League of Gentlemen who's always going on about Creme Brule and how 'they all used to know me round here'" type figure. And he's supported in this by his loyal henchmen.

I guess that's the inevitable problem with a BB based around one guy, really, isn't it? I never knew this place when it was "The Bomb", or whichever was its first incarnation, but I think the fact that it's gone beyond that, and that probably the majority of posters on here aren't even fans of George M, and certainly have lots of other things to talk about, is what makes the difference.

Dunno... don't actually have a great deal of experience with other boards, but the few I've checked out have always seemed a lot more insular. Barbelith may be cliquey, but the cliques very rarely have to do with a GM love-in, unlike the comic creator boards I HAVE looked at.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

12:05 / 16.07.04

Well, we had the advantage that GM doesn't really do the internet (I understand he does a naked cleansing dance every time Kristen updates his website because he thinks she's sold her soul to dark eldritch nasties) so never really turned up, and was writing a comic about tearing down authority figures but yeah, it could have got nasty.

Now we're just the best.

Dan Fish - @Fish1k

12:21 / 16.07.04

Millarworld is at millarworld.net at the moment. They had some trouble with the owner of Millarworld.biz apparently, so that address is expired for now.

12:46 / 16.07.04

But yes, lets not go smothering ourselves in self-congratulation. I don't know about you, but this place sometimes makes me weep for more tickets to selfawaria to dispense to the needy.

The Natural Way

12:52 / 16.07.04

Ok, Radiator, I used to post on Millarworld (and I still pop back there from time to time), so I think I'm pretty qualified to voice an opinion. Doesn't necessarily equate with smugness. I post on Barbelith for actual reasons, you know? And those reasons include:

- not having to sift through a million "Woah! Cooool! Wouldn't it be amazing if Superman and Wolverine....." comments before getting to the 1% of the thread that actually contains anything of interest.

- being able to discuss politics and religion, and anything else with a beard.

- not slugging it out with 14 yr old homophobes complaining about positive discrimination towards homosexuals in comics.

Alright, perhaps that's all a bit glib, but Millarworld does have a very low...err...intelligence bar. There's no sharing of ideas (there's very few *ideas*, TBH), there's a complete lack of the clanging and clashing of real debate. And, well, basically, it's just a *special* comics site, which is fair enough, but means there's very little interesting cross-pollination going on between forums. Oh, and that there's loads of eggy teenagers.

And there you go.

13:12 / 16.07.04

I'll take "smug" (which reads to me as articulate and very aware of the fact, not such a bad thing really) over "troll" (unintelligent, repetitive, bigoted) any day of the week.
Even if I do get burnt by some of the more intelligently aware members of this board from time to time.
It's much better than arguing ad infinitum about the merits of Beast's feline appearance over and over and over and over again. CBR has a lot of that.

I'm no GM fanboy but I do admit to a healthy regard for him and his work. I think it'd ruin Barbelith if he really appeared. The creators that do pop by from time to time just reinforce my opinion of this board as somewhere quite accepting and informed. Perhaps that says more about the people that Grant likes to work with rather than the people that frequent Barbelith though?

13:13 / 16.07.04

Oh scratch that. I am a GM fanboy but not to the same "fanboy-degree" of some of Claremont's most vehement supporters.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

13:30 / 16.07.04

Don't pat yourself on the back too hard now, your arm might snap off or something.

13:45 / 16.07.04

Oh and the obligatory sarcasm... I just LOVE the sarcasm.

15:19 / 16.07.04

aren't we all fanboys? i may like to think that i can give a critical and knowing appraisal of doom patrol #1, but i still bought it because it was the doom patrol and john byrne used to be good so maybe, just maybe...

it just comes with the territory

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

01:26 / 17.07.04

So who'd win in a fight between John Byrne and Mark Millar?

05:18 / 17.07.04

Everyone.

12:36 / 17.07.04

Stoat - So who'd win in a fight between John Byrne and Mark Millar?

Bio K9 - Everyone.

Bwa-ha-ha-ha. Does anyone know if GM and Millar are still friends?

Regrettable Juvenilia

14:20 / 05.08.04

If you've ever felt guilty for thinking Barbelith is just a tiny bit better than Millarworld... don't. I mean, really, don't.

14:29 / 05.08.04

omg boobs

Haus of Mystery

16:17 / 05.08.04

"Man I'm going to hate myself for saying this but Franks drawings of Mary Jane and Felicia are REAL TURN ON"S!!!! (I hate myself already

)"

RIGHT ON!
I'm leaving Barbelith for sunnier climes. I'll catch YOU suckers in the funny pages!

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