BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Underground > Conversation >

Depression: How to deal.

  
 
lekvar
01:30 / 10.07.04
Apologies in advance if this is in the wrong place, but it didn't seem to fit in the other areas.

So. Depression. I've known for some time that I'm not one of the "happy" people but I've managed to get by. I go about my business just fine as long as nobody expects me to be cheerful. Some months it's hard to get out of bed, but the bills don't pay themselves. I asked my dad if anybody in our family had ever been diagnosed and he confirmed my suspicion that there's some kind of inheritable bad headmeat in the family, going back at least as far as my great-grandfather.

I've recently been toying with the idea of getting treatment of some kind, but I'm not enthusiastic about it. I have friends who've gone on Paxil/Zoloft/Saint John's Wort/What-Have-You, and none of them seem the better for being medicated. They complain of missing the highs, the creativity, etc. Then there's the issue of coming off the meds....

To clarify, this isn't some fly-by-night thing. I have a career that pays the bills, a loving Significant Other that has to deal with my misery, a beautiful daughter... all the trappings of The American Dream.

Have any of you gone through this? Can you make the transition from medicated to non-medicated? What level of success can I expect without drugs? Can I make do with psychiatric help alone?
 
 
Lord Morgue
04:48 / 10.07.04
Pig out on sunflower seeds. You might just need selineum or whatever.
Food link

Another food link.

I always say, start with the basics. If your life is alright, and you're still freaking, it may be some deficiency in your diet. I'd at least give it a shot before putting yourself in hock to the headfuckers, who in my experience charge you an arm and a leg for doing exactly jack shit.
Better to take control of the reigns of your own being and study Psychocybernetics, no-one will ever know your mind like you can, and all another can do is coach you on the path to change.
 
 
neukoln
10:17 / 10.07.04
Yep I know where you are coming from.

The ideal being intoned is a 3-pronged approach of medication, counselling, self-help. For those of us who refuse to be medicated it means that we truly have to rely on ourselves, and/or get input from someone qualified. Depending on the type of depression you have you *may* be able to turn the boat around by yourself. If it is long-standing/endogenous depression then I suspect not. So, you'll have to involve someone else, who hopefully will support/guide you through/out of the head-space you are in. Or at the very least help you manage the symptoms better.

Good self-management though can truly improve your quality of life. As an absolute bare minimum you should eat properly (removed processed sugary shite) and do some exercise. Even my (very conservative) GP had to concede to the studies demonstrating that taking moderate exercise has an impressive positive impact on depression. Exercise doesn't mean sprinting up 45 degree inclines, walking for half an hour DAILY is good. I'd also reinforce what Mordant says, by suggesting that you take a decent (expensive) multi-vitamin.

God, there are a dozen other things you can utilise to support, and help yourself. But I guess the main things I'd suggest are overhaul your diet, exercise and involve someone else. It ain't easy, but it will improve.
 
 
neukoln
10:29 / 10.07.04
1. I meant 'Lord Morgue' not 'Mordant'
2. For me exercise has the single greatest impact on my mood. It doesn't get rid of the bad genes, or the causal agents, or the likelihood that the whole mess will re-appear but it does stabilise me, and lengthen the cycles (by this I mean distance between very bad lows).
 
 
Papess
16:24 / 10.07.04
I have depression as well. It certainly helps me when I exercise and eat right. I do not like the medications I have tried from my doctor, as they have usually caused some side-effects I just found distracted me from my depression instead of treating it. A Have-a-problem-with-your-head?-Let-me-kick-you-in-the-gut....type of remedy.

Exercise works well for me, especially if it is outdoors (when possible). Sunshine is a big factor for me, as part of my depression is caused by the appropriately named S.A.D, or Seasonally Affected Depression. However, it is not only caused by the changes in the weather. Sometimes, it can also be affected by working late shifts and not getting enough day time.

Any other depressionsI can help (but not cure) by removing as many stressful situations from my life as possible. This isn't that easy, as some things that bring stress are necessary to our survival, ie: a job, and that can cause anxiety...rinse and repeat... However, whenever possible, at a time of crisis (when I am feeling self-destructive) taking a step back from unnecessary responsibilities and stress factors can give me time to balance myself out. In order to make room for the positive, one has to remove the things that prevent, or are in opposition to the positive.

If I do not eat meat when I am depressed that, while the animal was alive, had a very depressing and oppressive existence, I find it helps too. Firstly, I find meat is very heavy causing me to be lethargic. Cutting most dairy and red meat out of my diet can make me feel "lighter". I suppose there are a number of factors as to why, but I have say that I do not feel as weighed down after I eat a free-range chicken or salmon. Secondly, I really believe there is some transference of misery from animals that have been killed en masse, and lived an inhumane life.

Maybe I shouldn't be so surprised, but I also find I instinctually crave sunflower seeds and some of the food mentioned on the links that Lord Morque provided, when I am depressed. Sometimes, between the stress and hunger I choose my food out of convenience though, and don't take time to listen to what my body really wants. Fast food has such low nutritional value and I find it drains me rather than giving me energy. Making healthy snacks to take with me, like celery sticks and sunflower seeds helps me to stay away from highly-processed food that offers my body and mind nothing of value.

Also, and this is a bit taboo to talk about, but I truly believe in colonic therapy. Walking around with waste product in our bowels couldn't possibly be good for us, physically or mentally. It helps me to clease myself of a physical heaviness that only exaggerates the depression. However, there are opposing opinions on colonics, and probably talking your doctor (if they are open to wholistic practices), or consulting a wholistic physician to learn more. I recommend Tissue Cleansing Through Bowel Management by Dr. Bernard Jensen. (That link, believe is actually the entire book online, with a link to the next chapter at the bottom of each page.) Colonic therapy is not for everyone, but educate yourself and talk to a doctor, it may help you in more ways than one.

This reminds me of a scene in L.A Story...

[After they get high colonics together]
SanDeE*: So, what do you think?
Harris: I think it was a total washout.
SanDeE*: God, it really clears out your head.
Harris: Head? Head? You should go back in there and tell them they're doing it wrong.....Well, it was a great lunch and enema, thanks.

BTW: There is a difference between an enema and a colonic.

Lekvar, I am not a doctor, these are just things I have tried with some guidance from doctors and self-education. It really is the maintainence of several remedies, as t.i.m.r said, a "3-pronged approach of medication" that works well for me, a healing on all levels.

All the best, and do take care of yourself, Lekvar.
 
 
Lord Morgue
04:46 / 11.07.04
Yeah, some kind of exercise is good, get the endorphins running.
 
 
misterpc
07:42 / 11.07.04
As well as taking exercise and looking after your diet, I think it's possible to positively reinforce yourself by doing things that you feel good about.

Exercise is a good example - find something that you enjoy doing (preferably a group / social activity - swimming is a solo sport, but if you're doing it at a nice pool surrounded by people, it counts as a social activity), and do it regularly.

Listen to music that picks you up rather than puts you down. This means no Travis, ever, which is a good thing - instead, try listening to African or Latin music. Maybe take up dance classes with your partner - it might sound lame, but it can have an impact.

Get outside more. Get into fields or forests, and go for long walks. I find that being in the countryside has a massive positive impact on my depression, especially when you find yourself on a hillside looking out across the green, or in the middle of a clearing with the sunlight streaming through the trees.

(Akshully, I combine all the above with going running in the countryside while listening to very loud Latin music.)

Finally, and this is important, is having somebody to talk to. It doesn't have to be a professional, it could be a friend, or even your partner. When you start on the downward spiral, let them know, and they can help you to pick up. People still don't understand depression (and I think it's being oversold these days, as well, looking at the statistics) but if you have people you can trust, let them know. Then you might be down, but you won't be alone.

Oh yes, and with apologies to Barbelith (the entity) and the 'lithers, spend less time on the internet. Latest research shows that too much logging in increases a sense of isolation and can contribute to depressive patterns. However, if you ever need to chat, I'm sure that the people that have posted here will be happy to chat back.

Good luck.
 
 
gravitybitch
14:33 / 11.07.04
I'll add my two cents, even though most of what I do has already been covered above. (I've got a history of depression on both sides of my family and I think both of my siblings have been on meds; I'm in the process of getting off them right now... If you want to chat, pm me.)

The things I find helpful are exercise and meditation (if I'm in an actively ugly mood, doing what's known as a body scan helps pull me away from the "bad thoughts"), regular meals of home-cooked healthy food and no alcohol (sad, but true - I really enjoy a glass of wine with dinner, but if I skip that three days in a row, I find that my mood lifts noticeably), and sitting down with a therapist on a regular basis has been incredibly good. I highly recommend finding somebody who (a) you can get deep rapport with, and (b) will push you just a little bit too hard now and then.

And, being on meds is not the end of the world. Drugs are tools, and humans are tool-users... I've been using the metaphor of "life with training wheels" to remind myself that this is a time to polish up my coping skills, that there is a next step (life after meds), and that I probably will get a little banged up without the meds...
 
 
Papess
14:34 / 11.07.04
Lots of helpful advice here.

One thing I forgot to mention is sleep.

While I do not have insomnia, I do have no choice but to exist everyday on about 4 hours of sleep. This, it has been mentioned to me, is one of the most important factors in my depression. It may be something others feel is relevent to their depression as well. There is a seemingly strong connection between insomnia and depression.

Here is a transcript from a webcast about, "The Link Between Sleep and Depression"

From the transcript:

"I think almost everybody's had the experience of a bad night leading to an irritable, mildly-depressed day. It's now been shown that insomnia is a risk factor for depression, which means they looked at patients who had insomnia, and then looked at what proportion of them had depression a year later. And the ones who got help with their insomnia and didn't have the insomnia later weren't depressed, whereas the ones who continued to have insomnia had a greater degree of major depression.

People start to feel very lousy about their life, and in fact start obsessing about their insomnia and start to feel like they're not in control, they're not well-regulated, and this can start a spiral of negative thinking and negative functioning and negative performance, which is enough, I think, to then trigger a real depression."~Dr.ARTHUR SPIELMAN, PhD

I hope that is helpful too.
 
 
MsCirmish
23:06 / 11.07.04
I have found yoga and meditation to help me. Sleeping, breathing and eating right are critical to functioning positively.

Be strong and talk. Be open and trust those you love.
 
 
Simplist
01:17 / 12.07.04
Popping in late here, I see my suggestions have already been made, namely exercise, sleep (both amount and depth of) and meditation; still, I'll add a bit on the latter...

I've lived with depression as a constant background condition for as long as I can remember. Of course it's worse when I don't eat well, when I don't exercise, don't relate somewhat consciously with other people, etc., and I certainly feel better when I'm "good" in these and related areas; but still, the depression is always there, however healthily I live on various levels.

Meditation has also not eliminated my depression, but the practice has to a large extent neutralized its power. As the years have gone by and I've practiced zazen more or less consistently, I've been increasingly able to relate to the depression from an observer position; it no longer feels like it's "me" that's depressed, rather the depression has gradually become something that's just going on around me, like weather (usually, that is; I'm only so far up the E-curve just yet). And as I've been able to observe the depression, I've been increasingly able to just leave it alone and let it do its thing, saving an enormous amount of psychic energy formerly spent resisting the depression. Really, I can't recommend meditation strongly enough, when it comes to this particular problem. Zen or Vipassana recommended based on my own experience, but obviously look around and see what grabs you.
 
 
gravitybitch
02:07 / 12.07.04
Meditation is wonderful. I (try to) do it regularly... However, "empty the mind" meditation may not be the best thing for an already depressed person to try if ze doesn't have much practice in meditation. "Doing something" meditations, whether it's a walking meditation, yoga, or having somebody flog you until the only thing that exists is your breath and that impact, are all less likely to provide the blank slate that can so easily turn into a black hole of negative thoughts.
 
 
lekvar
06:12 / 12.07.04
Thank you, everybody. I've been thinking about all of your suggestions, and most of them had already occured to me, but it's good to hear the words form people who actually know what they're talking about.

My diet is actually pretty good, it's something I try to actively pay attention to. I think I'm getting hit especially hard right now because I'm on night shift at a desk job. No sunlight, no exercise.

I've been trying to get into meditation, but I think May hit the nail on the head- I've done better with tai chi than transendental/zen meditations.

So, time to look into a gym/thereapy of some kind.

Once again, thank you all.
 
 
HCE
14:09 / 12.07.04
Question: what to do for somebody who's depressed and is withdrawing? This is a friend who lives in another city, and I don't know his close friends who live there. Planning a trip to visit him but it'll be a few months before I can do that.
 
 
Whale... Whale... Fish!
14:33 / 12.07.04
Talk to him. I find it helps when I start to withdraw to talk to friends, not about the reasons why I'm withdrawing or the reasons for my depression but about random crap. But what works for me might not help with him so I don't know but I won't hurt to speak to him every so often until your visit.
 
 
misterpc
16:39 / 12.07.04
I second that - call him regularly, just to say hi. Encourage mutual friends to call him as well, just to say hi. It'll help him just to know that there are people thinking about him.
 
 
HCE
23:28 / 12.07.04
That's just what worries me -- it used to be that he'd get on the phone with me and talk for hours about whether he should throw himself out the window, etc. I wasn't thrilled with my giant phone bill but right now I'd give anything for one of those long talks. I call him and he just rushes me off the phone.

Would it be really unethical to invent (really bad) problems that I needed his help with? I have a gut feeling that it would be kind of shitty but I'm a bit desperate, this is worse than I've ever heard him.
 
 
Olulabelle
23:38 / 12.07.04
Fred, that would be unethical, but worse than that you'd make him sadder.

If you make up problems then he'll be worrying about his friend (you) who he can't help because you're miles away, as well as everything else in his head to do with him.
 
 
Papess
02:30 / 13.07.04
fred, it sounds like your friend could be using again. They do not want to talk to you, because they cannot face you. Especially after you have shown them kindness and support.
 
 
HCE
17:16 / 13.07.04
Thanks for the feedback. I am trying to get hold of everybody I know in his town and after that I guess I just have to accept the limitations on what I can do.
Gah...
 
  
Add Your Reply