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RE-INCARNATION? Life after death

12:46 / 30.06.04

Do you believe in life after death/re-incarnation and if so......is anythijg you have done in your Magickal life made you believe in such?

14:21 / 30.06.04

When people die, they turn into ideas. Now there's a big problem people may have with this, becasue there's no real coherent "self" that exists after the organics let go of consciousness, but there IS a "self" that exists in the minds of family, friends, etc. Like I have a sense of who my Grandmother is and what she would have done, who she would have me be... like the energy of her still exists as a motivating spirit in my mind. The reason this works for me, is because once you strip away all our personal and individual weaknesses, what's left to be? What's left to give the world once you let go of your individual "choice"? I would RATHER be an idea that motivates people sometimes than a sloppy and confused singular mind.

03:20 / 01.07.04

No, but then, I tend to believe some pretty wacked out things about the mechanics of this universe, and the sense of reincarnation simply doesn't tie in with those beliefs, but then again, neither do traditional ideas about death. In fact, notions of personhood, identity and "self" are also in err, imho of course.

05:51 / 01.07.04

thanks

I am glad that you responded

to everybody else:
I was basically wondering whether in your conversations with HGA's, Angels and demons, there has ever been an experience that convinced you of the continuance of 'something' after death

Not your consciousness but your soul .....(if there is such a thing) whatever

--

13:10 / 01.07.04

I think the divine spark inside us either gets tossed back to Earth by the Archons (this is only if they were not illuminated during their lifetime) or they wait in limbo for the universe to be born into the Fifth Dimension.

16:12 / 01.07.04

I believe that whatever is at the core (Self, soul, tiny bit of fire, whatever) will return from whence it came, having finished experiencing a lifetime through this particular body, at this time, in this place, etc. etc. What's next?
I don't know. Let's watch and see what happens.

Shanghai Quasar

02:01 / 02.07.04

How do you define Self?

Self as a thread that connects one point in time to another along a linear progression. Non-linear thinking may modify the question: Does a person continue to exist before they are born? Yes. You exist at this point, you will continue to exist at this point.

As far as people turning into ideas, would it not be equally valid to suggest that people exist as ideas before they are dead? Indeed, a person may exist as an idea well before they are even conceived. Perhaps death just gives more opportunity for an idea to change into something bigger or smaller.

13:28 / 02.07.04

That's exactly my point. People, in their living years, are material/conceptual "knots" in time. They exist as ideas PRIOR to birth (example: the children I'll one day have), and then continue to exist AFTER death (example: James Dean).

For me, the only way to gracefully exist as a knot is to align myself with my "memetic" self. What does my existence, as a knot in this time and space, do for the world? How can I help keep the world moving forward?

17:45 / 02.07.04

THERE IS NO REBIRTH. PREPARE TO BE EATEN BY YOG-SOTHOTH.

Naw, I think I dig reincarnation. Although I don't happen to believe it's a neat and tidy process whereby an individual soul goes through a series of lives on its individual way to individual enlightenment.

It's more like... the consciousness that is the Universe incarnates parts of itself to live in itself to learn more about itself. As Bill Hicks so eleoquently put it, the Universe experiencing itself subjectively. When we die, we rejoin the superconsciousness which reabsorbs the soul and the knowledge and experiences it has acquired, and things swirl around and little droplets break off into the world of substance again... to be trite, much like drops of water flowing into the sea and then vaporizing and reforming again into drops. Is the drop that merges into the ocean the same drop that forms again and falls from the sky? No, at least not entirely. Life energy/consciousness/soul is all the same stuff. When we're not broken out into this illusion of individuality, we know and are everyone and everything.

At least, that's what I think today. Ask me tomorrow, or next lifetime, and I'm likely to say something entirely different...

Unconditional Love

19:49 / 02.07.04

There is no life there is no death if it can be named it isnt real.neither neither.

Shanghai Quasar

03:50 / 04.07.04

Chad: The two exist as counter-parts to one another, one feeding off the other, yes? The True Self is shaped by the Idea Self, the Idea Self is shaped by the True Self.

So the goal is to make the Idea Self as good and useful to future generations as possible? Would you say it is unfortunate that once you've lost one half, the other half is prone to manipulation by the ones who are left behind?

Ideas are impossible to kill but easy to subvert.

03:32 / 05.07.04

Shanghai: Hmmm... I'd hate to suggest a duality, but I think you understand what I mean, yes. There's the YOU that you know, and then there's the YOU that I know. Once the YOU you know(True Self) dies when your brain dies, all that's left is the one I know(Idea Self).

The goal isn't so much making sure your Idea Self is a good one, but that the idea of you and the true you are integrated and working together. Like the Napolean idea is much different than the man's idea of himself. It's a matter of living -and then dying- gracefully.

I think you and I may run into problems eventually during this conversation becasue I think of these terms as verbs and activity, and I think you want to solidify them as nouns(Self). In any case, once one verb(you YOU) dies, the other(us YOU) is fired into the future... so yeah, WE could fuck with the idea of you, but so what? it's OUR idea of you. We can do what we like. -And that's the crux of the argument and the role of Jesus-types.

IF you align your YOUs not so much as concrete iconic personality types, but more like emotional and rational directional energy (For example, suppose our idea of YOU is the a compulsion to always do the right thing), then you have the opportunity to align your youYOU(True/brain Self) with that compulsion. Voila! You've just insured for yourself everlasting life.

Thus you have a new understanding of the Christian doctrine that you should die to yourself. You've basically killed your individual personality in order to do live forever as a compulsion amongst the collective. Maybe that seems a bit selfish? Or maybe it's just the biota's bain cells(that's really what we are, after all) realizing their part in the grand scheme and doing the best thing for the integrity of the biota superorganism.

Capice?

Ideas are impossible to kill but easy to subvert.

14:25 / 05.07.04

We are scientifically reincarnated as our DNA strains are passed along if we decide to mate. So therefore future selves may access atavisms of time at at the moment now. If not we can always leave plenty of "logos" behind by leaving "achievments" of our alleged "time tracks" in this lifetime. Say look at music we can leave "earworms" (infectious music memes)if we were musicians. But if we believe in a spiritist arguement then we are reabsorbed into the "kia," if you subscribe to Spare's theorems which are not unlike Buddhism. There are plenty more paradigms to plunder.

Shanghai Quasar

01:00 / 06.07.04

Chad: Everlasting life? Well, you've got that, even if the Us You/Idea Self fades after you die. These knots in the timeline never disappear, if you subscribe to the circular view of time.

Yesh, capice. That said, I can see how Us You/Idea Self would be considered less important to Me You/True Self than Me You/True Self. Not that cultivating a public image and crafting a legacy in thought aren't worthy pursuits in their own right.

As far as being brain cells to the Universe (or Biota Superorganism on the smaller scale), couldn't agree more. In fact, I doubt there's much we disagree about on this count.

Anyone else?

10:02 / 06.07.04

We die all the time. I think it's roughly about every 3 months when every single cell (from skin to bone) is totally replaced in our bodies. However, we remain who we are, our cells knowing from the universal life force / (blueprint of us) what they must do. The Great Architect of the Universe sure knows how to design a blueprint! When we finally 'die' the blueprint is still there. The Mind does not require matter. IMHO.