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Robbie Williams and mental health

  
 
Joetheneophyte
14:11 / 26.06.04
Is there any hope for us mere mortals with neuroses?

My reason for asking is this

Recently, I read about Robbie Williams and how he is so knackered mentally that he employs people to stay in his room with him and cannot bear to be on his own

Now Robbie is worth tens of millions......for a thirty year old, he is wealthy beyond imagination. One would think that with all his money and contacts, somebody could find a way to help him. If there is no hope for him then the rest of us might as well give up!!!!!!

Admittedly, he might be just grabbing headlines but taking it that he is sick, my question still stands

I am a contributor to various websites that deal with hypnosis and have attended numerous hypnotherapists myself.....all to no avail and with little in the way of improvement. I bottled out of Leonard Orr type Rebirthing, as one of my fears is brain damage and the messing with the CO2 levels strikes me as a bit too risky.

I wanted to try 'Reichian ' therapy but no practitioners were available and the costs of the ones who I did contact were prohibitive and the distance too daunting.

I'm now absolutely stony broke and not in a position to embark on any more treatment and I am waiting for my finances to improve before I can do something to help myslef. I am also pretty disillusioned with the whole mental health field

The NHS can only offer cognitive behaviourist treatments and these are very limited in number of sessions and not something I believe can help me (long story but basically I have seen too many people who have had this treatment exhibit really bad neurotic behaviour......it might work for others but I don't believe it will work for me)

Hypnosis practitioners claim remarkable success but the whole field is unregulated and the practitioners who I have attended have all employed similar techniques and various levels of competence

Richard Bandler the co creator of NLP is somebody I would love to meet and attend but he asks something ridiculous in the way of fees. Another problem (for which I have been flamed for on Hypnosis boards) is that I have a problem when a Dr/Therapist claims they can help with weight issues......yet they are overweight themselves.
Bandler for example claims astounding success but he has been prone to drug problems and his weight fluctuates wildy

So basically, who do we trust?

is there anybody out there who can help?


and if Robbie Williams with all his money cannot find help, what hope is there for the rest of us
 
 
Joetheneophyte
14:22 / 26.06.04
BY the way, I have been flamed on the other boards for the the reason that the therapist might be happy with his or her weight

but using the Bandler argument again, it seems strange to me that a therapist might advertise in helping with weight and smoking problems, yet smoke like a chimney and be borerline grossly overweight!

I know this is me passing my own judgement on these people and my own bias..........

Bandler for example, might not be able to treat himself but he has been surrounded by other talented NLP and hypnosis practitioners such as Grinder and Robert Dilts

Surely IF Bandler recognised a problem and believed his own methodology, he would be able to approach one of his colleagues for help?
 
 
Joetheneophyte
11:41 / 28.06.04
just bumping this for purely selfish reasons


I know I am a preachy bugger but to me it seems strange that a person like Bandler or Dr Wilhelm Reich, could concieve a methodology that seems to have startling results, yet not trust one of their colleagues enough to employ such methodology on them

I know people might be happy with their weight/smoking habit whatever

But surely, if somebody like Bandler had a drugs problem....in that it was getting expensive and affecting his life in general....then he would seek help

Unlike most of us,who are basically reliant on word of mouth for referrals to competent therapists...Bandler was in that field and could contact and seek out the best of help

the only two alternatives I can think of are

1: He did not think he had a problem/ denial etc

2: He didn't think his own methodology would work.......



I mean how can you advocate a treatment or model and yet not use it on yourself or seek help from somebody you believed competent in your own methodology?
 
 
Ria
12:07 / 28.06.04
3. he did not want to appear human.
 
 
sdv (non-human)
15:03 / 28.06.04
joe

Quoting from Bandler is not a good idea...
 
 
Joetheneophyte
05:26 / 29.06.04
Can I ask why

I am not being aggressive (honest!)....I just don't understand why

I know that NLP is considered by some a quack methodology (I have heard wonderful things about it but to date my experiences of it have been mediocre at best)

Bandler also is often disliked by his habit of suing everybody

But I am still interested in your reasons for saying he is not a good example


My three questions are

1: Is there any hope that us mere fiscal mortals can find help if the uber rich seem incapable of getting help

2: Would any of you feel happy attending a therapist who was grossly overweight, smoked like a chimney and dabbled in drugs?

3: Have any of you ever had any great successes with NLP or hypnosis and if you care to share......let us know what your good experiences were?


Number 3 is cheeky in the extreme I admit and if you choose not to answer I entirely understand but in the interests of debate, I would like to hear your thoughts as far as you care to share, about the three points/questions above


thanks
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
17:28 / 29.06.04
1. Yes, because there is not a completely direct correlation between the amount of money you throw at them and the quality of service you get back. The important sliding measure is not how much cash you have but how ill you are.

2. Yes, because if he had a Scottish accent I could close my eyes and pretend he's Robbie Coltrane. There's nothing wrong with people who are any or all of what you pick out there, perhaps you should try and find a cheap skinny person on the National Health to get over your obsession with people's appearences first? Did you perhaps miss out the words 'in excess' there, that they were perhaps unhealthily overweight, or had a drugs habit they blatantly couldn't handle which affected their ability to give you appropriate care?

3. Can't help you there.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
17:34 / 29.06.04
I'd maybe suggest changing the title of the thread to "Does NLP work, and are there any other affordable therapeutic tecniques?", then whack a link to this thread in the Magick, where some of our NLPers hang out...
 
 
Joetheneophyte
07:57 / 30.06.04
hello

Yeah I admit that I might be overly obsessed with the appearance of the therapist but for my money, I do believe that there is a certain hypocrisy in a person in such a role, not being able to get over their own demons

I know this is MY problem but for example, I attended a therapist sometime ago that advertised that he helped with weight issues....he actually advertised that as one of his areas of expertise

He must have been 22 stone .....he was a really big fella....about five foot eleven and about 22 stone

Now I am sure I am not the only one who might have a problem if they were going to this guy and when he opened the door, he was that big?

Weight was not the issue with me and I admit he was a reasonable therapist and helped with some of my minor obsessions but surely, first impressions are important and if you advertise that you can help with weight issues....then you should look the part yourself?

Again I admit this is my problem and I do not know this guys medical history, he may very well have a medical condition that affects his weight. Sorry

No I would not like this restricted to NLP as whilst the topic has fixated mostly on Bandler, I am interested in other forms of therapy. I will start a NLP thread on the Temple boards later today or tomorrow asking that question
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
10:36 / 30.06.04
Could we perhaps change the title of this thread to "I jump to massive conclusions about people's lifestyles, how many times should I be hit with a bat before I realise it's none of my concern?"

Nothing you've said has made me think that this councillor you're talking about has any problems or the more melodramatic 'demons', my Dad is 18 stone because he has a fondness for puddings and between-meal snacking, I don't think that qualifies as a real problem, although it irritates my Mother and as you say, you're guessing he's over twenty stone, you might be completely incorrect, unless your job involves you guestimating someone's weight and then comparing it to what a scale says.

I don't mean to be harsh but I think this thread has descended into pointlessness, so I'm getting the hell out.
 
 
Sir Real
12:25 / 30.06.04
In regards to the too heavy therapist, the abilty to help others is in no way linked to the abilty to help oneself, imho. 'Physician, heal thyself' makes a nice soundbite, but has no real validity. In the interest of full disclosure though, I must admit I have some weight prejudice myself and can see where it might be a distraction.
Otherwise, it's my understanding that it's not so much the cost (and therefore worthiness?) of the therapy, but he willingness of the subject to engage themselves with it, that is to say that a certain amount of humilty may be required. Probably not Mr. William's strong point.
 
 
Joetheneophyte
13:53 / 30.06.04
Our Lady of the Flamingoes


Yes, I admit you have a very valid point. BUT that said, I did qualify my post with the realisation that YES it is MY problem to a great extent , being so judgemental of others appearance

and I did also qualify it by saying that I did not know whether this gentleman has a health problem that might contribute to his weight
--------------------------------------------------------
It reminds me of that old joke "My weight is the result of a glandular problem......I have a gland that makes me a greedy bastard"

I have no idea whether this guy had a problem with his physiology....my point was that I personally (and I suspect others might) find this gentleman advertising himself as a weight control expert..........on first impressions be a bit of a problem

I fully admit that this is NONE of my business and does not in anyway, deflect from this man's ability to help others

But that does not negate the fact that

a: he has an image problem, if he is advertising as a weight control helper, and somebody comes to the door, their first reaction would be "WHOOOOPSSSSS"

(BY THE WAY, THE argument that the guy is not aware of his own weight or doesn't see it as a problem is further negated by the fact that on his website, he has elongated his photo vertically, to make himself look thinner)

He might be happy with his weight but my argument still stands that whilst it might not be a problem for HIM, his clients would register this discrepancy and be put off at least in the short to medium term by his appearance. Again, this might no prevent him from achieving results with others but if not a physical complaint, Why can he not help himself, or being in that field....approach a colleague?


b: He is definately AT LEAST 22 stone. My mother is fifteen stone, a little fat dumpling of a woman. This guy is at least 7 inches taller and considerably fatter. I was actually being conservative in my estimates of his weight....whilst I am not the speaking scale, I have a reasonable ability to guess weight and 22 stone cannot be too far off the mark, if not an underestimate.


weight is an issue for me and the weight that this guy was carrying, was cause for concern as he was fat enough for it to affect his health and also I once viewed him stooping to pick up some mail..........it was painful to watch and took him nearly a minute to reach down adn pick up the envelopes. He cannot be forty and yet here he was so restricted by his size and girth

I am sorry and admittedly, this HAS gotten off topic. I accept what others have said about Robbie Williams and his personality, possibly preventing him from seeking appropriate help....or worse ignoring the advice

I ......by my own admission, have problems with weight and as such am biased unfairly over the issue

Sorry for coming accross too preachy and judgemental but that is ME and whether I am unfair or not, until somebody comes and makes me see the light...that is something I have to live with. Like Our Lady.....if it offends you have your say or ignore me.....if my posts are stupid or worse offensive, then if you choose not to respond, they will drop off the boards quickly enough


That said, I am grateful for all the input to date and hope this doesn't descend into a slanging match or too fat off topic.

Thanks to you all
 
 
Joetheneophyte
13:58 / 30.06.04
THAT 'TOO FAT OFF TOPIC'


was a typo and not me being clever or trying to be funny


sorry


Joe
 
 
Ganesh
23:56 / 07.07.04
Could I just ask, what is the aim of "treatment" a) for Robbie Williams, and b) for the individual who started this thread?

Once we've established that, it might be possible to proceed.
 
 
flufeemunk effluvia
01:16 / 09.07.04
Joe-
Be honest with the guy and simply ask why hes so... big.
It could be genetic or diabetes or some other metabolic problem, and though your thinking makes some sense, it is still is an unfair generalization if you do not know all the facts.
 
 
Joetheneophyte
06:02 / 09.07.04
I know

I really do

I have no contact with this guy anymore as after about 50 sessions, there had been slight improvement in minor issues but not enough to warrant further expense and the travelling was a killer

I am grateful for what he did but I think we were therapeutically treading water as al the gains were made in the first twelve months and the last 18 months (I was seeing him about every two to three weeks) little in the way of improvement occurred


I do accept what you are saying and I do not know the reasons for his weight and as has been pointed out, it isn't my business.
 
 
Ganesh
08:10 / 09.07.04
Well, as I've said elsewhere, Robbie Williams isn't necessarily the best yardstick of what can and can't be achieved through psychological therapy. That which makes him hungry for (yet dissatisfied with) the adulation of millions probably also ensures that he'll never be completely content with himself. It's also true that, after a certain point, wealth/fame isn't always helpful - and can actually hinder one's psychic well-being (see The Madness of George III and Michael Jackson). Celebrity brings with it a special kind of sickness...

I guess if it were me, I'd reassess the problem, and look at which aspects might conceivably be helped further, and which I might just have to live with. Hypnotherapy, for example, is most useful in addressing a single, well-defined problem in an otherwise stable persona - a specific phobia, say, or a particular habit - but isn't going to change a whole host of neuroses, personality tics or irrational ideas.

Rather than busting a gut trying to find the semi-mythical "decent therapist" who'll make it all better, your time might be better spent organising a hierarchy of discrete problems, and deciding what you can and can't live with - then tackling them individually.
 
 
Joetheneophyte
08:33 / 09.07.04
Thanks for the advice

Makes sense I suppose.

I will have to watch that Madness of King George when I get the chance, it sounds interesting

Talking of King George and going totally off topic, I came accross some info about the 1776-81 War of Independance on a site called the Amerrican Patriot Network

the address if memory serves me right is

www.civil-liberties.com


On said site it claims that when Britain accepted the validity of American independance and made signed treaties in 1783 ....King George dictated terms (strange for the loser in a War to dictate terms) and also they claim that to THIS day....US citizens still pay a tiny amount of taxation to the British Crown. I am not clever enough or knowledgeable enough to confirm or deny this but it was interesting and presumably anybody who felt inclined could investigate for themselves

In fact the site encourages that you investigate for yourself

Personally, I thought the site was fascinating and the reasons they claim the subsequent War of 1812 was engineered also makes rivetting reading
 
 
Ganesh
09:29 / 09.07.04
Erm, yes. Thankyou.
 
 
Joetheneophyte
09:34 / 09.07.04
Sorry, It just popped into my mind and I thought it might be of interest to somebody
 
  
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