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No hope for non-caped comics?

 
 
Ruchbah me, Armaduras
11:47 / 24.06.04
I'm really sad to see that the Image comic series 'Faction Paradox' has bit the dust after just two issues. In a little Q&A about the situation (http://www.madnorwegian.com/fp/fp_comic_overview.php), Lars Pearson seems to say that if you're not a superhero comic, at the moment you're just not going to get anywhere. This sounds quite scary. I know there are titles that buck the trend - but then again, isn't LoEG a superhero comic too?

What's going to happen? Should I panic? (Gasps tearfully.)
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
13:08 / 24.06.04
A group of time-active ritualists, saboteurs and subterfugers--essentially, the criminal-cult to end all criminal-cults. The Faction seeks to subvert history to its own ends, preferably by letting its rivals kill each other off, then swooping in to seize whatever's left--presuming the Universe survives.

Wow, the premise for this series is just something that is never touched upon by any comics ever! Sci-fi secret war thingummy! Completely unheard of!
 
 
_Boboss
13:09 / 24.06.04
why not just read superhero comics?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:35 / 24.06.04
Hmmm. A mysterious group of subversives bounce around through time and space, pursuing a confusing agenda and battling the forces of order. Yawn.

Why not read something really ground-breaking? Liek the Invisibles? In which a mysterious group of subversives bounce around through time and space, pursuing a confusing agenda and battling the forces of order, while swearing.

But seriously, was this not mainstream enough, or was it just not selling well enough? I'm not sure what the market for Dr Who spin-offs is, but I don't know if they can be described as particularly alternative, even if not based on superheroes. Oni Press seem to do all right without much "proper" superhero fare, Fantagraphics likewise..maybe it's about market expectations? There must be a break-even point which is quite unforgiving.
 
 
Ex
16:30 / 24.06.04
I don't think Costume stated that Faction was an expectation-poking mindbomb, chaps. Is this forum all jumpy from post-Invisibles headfuck embarassment?

On the other hand, it was rather good (a little like 1602 with less ye olde shite). And a good enough place to start thinking about whether comics are going to mainstream the trends that have been cropping up in 'alternative' comics (political commentary, autobiographical wanking stories), or expand the superhero genre any further (LoEG, ambivalent vigilante heroes, ambivalent vampire heroes, families of heroes, hero f*cking pets....).

I think there's always going to be problems with distribution; comics with a lot of mainstream publicity and appeal will still rely on people getting the trade paperbacks from bookshops rather than actually going into comic shops. So no income for the comic company or specialised shop throughout the series, and then no money for the comic shop even if it get spopular in the collected format.
Someone with more understanding of how the financing works will be able to tell me if this is the case - what happened with the Sandman, for example?
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
16:32 / 24.06.04
Indeed, what if one of the characters in the clever-clever self-important sexually ambiguous sci-fi time warping paradoxees liberal type comic that pretty much only caters to the same kind of people who already read superhero comics wore their own cape?

A simple solution. Or just this guy's making silly excuses for his comic doing poorly and getting canned.
 
 
Ex
16:59 / 24.06.04
Could you elaborate on why it's a silly excuse by pointing out some current non-superhero mainstream comics which are doing well? I'm not as well-versed as I'd like to be, and always keen to look at stuff.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
17:17 / 24.06.04
But they're all superheroes... it's just that some pretend they're an alternative by dressing up as sci-fi/fantasy (same fanbase/same interests).

I don't know what's doing well. Probably nothing. Just surviving.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
17:23 / 24.06.04
I'm not being entirely serious, by the way.

I think it's really silly that everything get's so divisive in the little sub-genre of comics (Not comics as a whole: ie, if it was in a book shop, the sub-genre would be the sci-fi/fantasy section) and that superheroes are frowned upon by all the sci-fi/fantasy guys who pretend they're an alterative that's better than that. I think they need to find their inner happiness and stop being embarassed, or else write a comic that's actually an alternative so they can moan about it properly.
 
 
Jacen
18:51 / 24.06.04
It's about overhead more than anything. If you want to do a COLOR book with a mainstream company like Image it better hit that Lowest Common Denominator audience like a men-in-tights book or you are doomed but if you genuinely want or need to tell your own non-tights story go to Oni, Avatar, Top Shelf, Fantagraphics, Sirius, SLG, self publishing, etc etc where your overhead is lower and a book can survive, even thrive, on numbers a fraction of what the corporate trademark books need to make to avoid cancellation. There is an intelligent audience out there that supports the originality, creativity and exploration of the medium and the alternative genres. Unfortunately, they are just a small fraction of the comic buying audience but if you do a great book, keep your overhead down and deliver something new, it will find an audience and hopefully you'll make enough to keep your house. The mainsteam is polluted. Support the small press or you are part of the problem.

-J
 
 
DavidXBrunt
19:03 / 24.06.04
Before I start can I say that I've been a fan of Lawrence Miles 'Faction Paradox' for a long time now. Their first full appearance in 'Doctor Who: Alien Bodies' is one of the very best Who novels. Both parts of 'Doctor Who: Interference' were great and he excelled himself with 'Doctor Who: The Adventuress of Henriette Street'. His F.P. audio plays are enjoyable as well. I bought both issues of the F.P. comic as well.

But it's bollocks to suggest that only caped superhero comics can survive at the moment. 100 Bullets, Lucifer, Y:The Last Man, Fables, Rex Mundi, Strangers in Paradise amd Walking Dead are all doing very well and they're just the ones that spring to mind immediatley. If F.P. did sell then it's for different reasons.

I could have made a quick buck by betting before I read this thread that it would be compared to Invisibles and I bet Miles is sick and fed up of that. I believe him when he says he's never even read the comic.
 
 
Dan Fish - @Fish1k
05:54 / 25.06.04
I've heard of Faction Paradox - To be honest though, any descriptions I've read have all been about Time warps, alternate dimensions and stuff. There's nothing there to entice me.

Comics, (like Films, TV Shows. etc) need to have a hook, something that someone like me might associate with. Once you have the reader hooked, the story can be about anything.

There's a lot of competition out there, so by all means APPEAL to the lowest common denominator, but then BE something FANTASTIC!!
 
 
Spaniel
16:55 / 26.06.04
Jacen, is that a signature line? Have you noticed that no-one has signature lines on Barbelith?
 
 
Jacen
18:00 / 26.06.04
I meant it as part of the post. I added it on the end for emphasis but I'll edit it into the body.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:28 / 27.06.04
Well, thank God. I would never have worked out that Jacen's name began with a J without that assistance.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:30 / 27.06.04
DaxidX: Read my post again. G'wan. See what it actually says.Does it say that Faction Paradox is in any way connected to the Invisibles? It does not. You have lost your dollar.
 
 
DavidXBrunt
18:27 / 27.06.04
Ah. My apologies. Have a dollar. I thought when you described the concept of F.P. and then said something akin to 'Why not read something ground breaking? Like the Invisibles?' and then described the Invisibles concept by using the same description, but with the addition of swearing then you were implying they are similar. My mistake.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:52 / 28.06.04
Hmmm. I can see where your confusion might arise. The terminology here is mutable.

There may or may not be thematic similarities between Faction Paradox and the Invisibles. However, your plaint was that Miles should be believed when he says that he has never read the Invisibles. This makes perfect sense, because they are both derivative ideas, which may be derivative of the same prior sources. I was addressing those who were mocking it for its lack of originality, pointing out that the Invisibles could be described in just such hackneyed terms. You're confusing "similarity", in your last post, with "connection" in mine, having confused "compare" and "accuse of being derivative" in your previous.

Thanks for the dollar.

So, again - was this not "superhero" enough, or just not successful enough? Something like Hopeless Savages or Optic Nerve, theoretically at least, is not likely to attract the same audience as The Authority, although we know in practice that the two overlap. I'd imagine FP was aimed more at the latter group than the former, which is a choked market - putting "sci-fi" in with "superhero" doesn't seem to me to be unrealistic. As implied above, the superhero novels go in the sci-fi section.

Where something like Fables has an advantage is that there are relatively few magic realist/sub-Angela Carter comics out there, so one can reasonably hoover up the audience that wants sub-Angela Carter fairytale stories, done in colour and professionally released. Faction Paradox, AFAICT, was aimed primarily at a subsection of a subsection (Dr. Who fans) - maybe that was just not enough to sustain it, and either through marketing or the opinion of the potential audience it failed to sell enough to those outside this subset to break even. It's sad, but it's not necessarily a reflection of the market being hostile to anything not involving capes - only that a lot of comic books, as we know, are fighting for the same section of the audience.
 
 
HCE
18:07 / 29.06.04
I don't read superhero comics and never have. I'm aware they exist because they get lots of prime display space, but there are plenty of other comics available that seems to do just fine.

Peter Bagge's 'Hate' had a long run, 'Love & Rockets' went on for ages and had plenty of spinoffs, Adrian Tomine & Dan Clowes have threads going, I think.

Chester Brown does some lovely short series things like his 'Louis Riel' which are worth looking into.

Are you perhaps looking for something that's thematically similar to the superhero genre, just without the superheroes?
 
 
Earlier than I thought
18:46 / 29.06.04
Well...it was nice while it lasted. To be honest, there was little or no time warping or other dimensions, which might have been the problem. Basically, a bunch of people turn up at George III's and start doing weird things with mammoths. Then a woman kills somebody with a bone and it gets a bit confused.
I enjoy the faction stuff but this really needed a serious edit; it wasn't as accessible as (to use the above example) The Invisibles. There were no clear 'jumping on points' and seeing as how it was a first issue, that's a fairly big problem. Not that everything should be immediately accessible, but with comic books it's suicide.

Non superhero books? Stand up, The Walking Dead.
 
  
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