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Madonnna chooses a new, Kabalic name

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12:28 / 18.06.04

Huh - so what significance does the name "Esther" have in Kaballah? One article I read said Esther was a Biblical virtuous princess.

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Madonna Chooses 'Esther' As New Name

Thu Jun 17, 9:56 PM ET

NEW YORK - Call her Esther: That's the Hebrew name Madonna (news - web sites) has chosen for herself as a follower of Kabbalah.

"I was named after my mother. My mother died when she was very young, of cancer, and ... I wanted to attach myself to another name," the singer says in an interview on ABC's "20/20," airing at 10 p.m. EDT Friday. "This is in no way a negation of who my mother is ... I wanted to attach myself to the energy of a different name."

During the interview, Madonna wears the red string around her wrist that's a symbol of the Jewish mysticism, though she wears it beneath her watch. She says she's sensitive when critics suggest her interest in Kabbalah is just a trend.

\"I'm a little bit irritated that people think that it's like some celebrity band wagon that I've jumped on, or that, say, somebody like Demi (Moore) has jumped on," the 45-year-old says. "We don't take it lightly. ...

"Paris Hilton did come to the Kabbalah Centre once, because her parents brought her ... and they wanted to help her and they were desperate and they brought her there and she had a meeting and she left and she never came back and suddenly, Paris Hilton studies Kabbalah. I mean that's what happens and people ... they don't know the whole story."

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14:26 / 18.06.04

Esther's important enough to have a book of the Bible named after her.

7 Mordecai had a cousin named Hadassah, whom he had brought up because she had neither father nor mother. This girl, who was also known as Esther, was lovely in form and features, and Mordecai had taken her as his own daughter when her father and mother died.

8 When the king's order and edict had been proclaimed, many girls were brought to the citadel of Susa and put under the care of Hegai. Esther also was taken to the king's palace and entrusted to Hegai, who had charge of the harem.

9 The girl pleased him and won his favor. Immediately he provided her with her beauty treatments and special food. He assigned to her seven maids selected from the king's palace and moved her and her maids into the best place in the harem....

...15 When the turn came for Esther (the girl Mordecai had adopted, the daughter of his uncle Abihail) to go to the king, she asked for nothing other than what Hegai, the king's eunuch who was in charge of the harem, suggested. And Esther won the favor of everyone who saw her.

16 She was taken to King Xerxes in the royal residence in the tenth month, the month of Tebeth, in the seventh year of his reign.

17 Now the king was attracted to Esther more than to any of the other women, and she won his favor and approval more than any of the other virgins. So he set a royal crown on her head and made her queen instead of Vashti.

Basically, she saves the Jewish people from an anti-semitic courtier of Xerxes, who was preparing to kill them all.

15:01 / 18.06.04

>> Immediately he provided her with her beauty treatments

like a makeover? Or lots of cosmetic supplies and stuff?

Moisturizer and a gift bag from Estee (*Esther*) Lauder?

16:10 / 18.06.04

I admire Madonna.....not so much musically but for her longevity and how she did a Bowie and re-invented herself every so often to keep in the news

Sadly, she only has herself to blame for people's incredulity (is there such a word?)

Whilst you can repeatedly re-invent yourself, we have had to put up with stories of her drinking her own piss.........her shacking up with Sandra Bernhard (I'm sorry but that woman is so unattractive, even an ultra promiscuous lesbian would pass her up) and then Madonna's attempts at being

a: an actress

b: a children's story writer

I believe Madonna has come up against the backlash that David Beckham is long due getting in the British media. Living by the sword can also hurt you just the same

She has courted controversy all her career and even now that she may have found something she fervently believes in (IF that is the case), she cannot be taken seriously.
The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that it might be that she is upsetting the powers that be by venturing into Religious territory but it is more likely that Madonna , who in the past has been so successful at staying one step ahead of the rest, is viewed increasingly as a has been

Sad but it happens to nearly all of us (Whilst not a lover of a lot of his stuff, bowie is more of a cult figure, less general appeal or ex[posure and as such more accepted as a chameleon....I also think he is more of an 'Artist' than Madonna.....some of his stuff is just fugging weird imo but I admire him all the more for it)

So hats off to Madonna, she shook the pop world by it's male dominated balls and etched a path in musical history that all the Britneys, Christinas and Beyonces can only dream about

She is brave and intelligent but ultimately, her own weapons have now been turned against her. I truly hope she has found some happiness in her spiritual life as she never ever seemed happy to me , no matter how successful she was. It would be nice to think that her life was now more fulfilled

16:52 / 18.06.04

i dont think its living by the sword so much as she has picked up on a trend(as she has always done) but this time its a trend with less mainstream acceptance than it could have.

she had similar problems when she broke sexual taboos, didnt she?

in a year or two, maddonna will be seen as a member of the vanguard of the occult revival, i reckon. much as she was seen as a member of the vanguard of uber-sexualised pop.

she's a mainstream gregor morris, maaaaaaan.

16:53 / 18.06.04

Joetheneophyte: Well put.

So, will she be releasing future albums as Esther, or is it just her name when she's at home?

~L

17:58 / 18.06.04

Esther won the favor of everyone who saw her.

Considering how much that bit comes up in the passage above, I can see why she chose the name.

Does anyone else feel strangely slightly embarassed by her kabalistic newsworthiness? I dunno, it seems to cheapen the occult somehow to see it talked about on Entertainment Tonight.

21:16 / 18.06.04

Nah, I think it's cool.

22:59 / 18.06.04

Does anyone else feel strangely slightly embarassed by her kabalistic newsworthiness? I dunno, it seems to cheapen the occult somehow to see it talked about on Entertainment Tonight.

Someone who knows more about it than me should write something about the assimilation of the alternative culture through the media into the spectacle.

00:03 / 19.06.04

Yawn.....yes it is a little embarrassing for serious occultists and cabbalists to say the least.

03:21 / 19.06.04

I was gonna' try to reply to cusm earlier, but I couldn't find the right words--I still don't think I have, but...

I don't think it is embarrassing, and it is not surprising either. I mean, there is a plethora of cheesy new age, modern spiritualism, magic, etc. crap floating around in books and other media more and more. Previously taboo or “hidden” subjects are cropping up in pop culture with more and more frequency. As LykeX points out, it turns on the mechanisms of the spectacle which work to subvert its own sub or counter culture by, in part, feeding into that sub/counter culture. Another marketing demographic, another system of control.

But, embarrassing it ain’t. I do wonder what effects it might have on the collective mind (if there is such a beastie), and I feel it might have a somewhat disarming effect on those who might otherwise get into “serious” study and practice. On the other hand, it might also benefit by getting some exposed where they would otherwise not be. A two edged sword, I suppose.

I think most “serious magicians” don’t give a rat’s ass what is on Entertainment Tonight and that they will go about their practices regardless of anything Madonna may or may not do—IMHO, of course.

Shanghai Quasar

04:30 / 19.06.04

If they're discussing it on Entertainment Tonight and it is being openly presented as a valid religion/movement, one can't really call it occult, which implies secrecy and keeping entirely out of sight. Well, you could and many do, but it would be wrong given the definition of the word.

As for Madonna Esther, good on her and the whole lot of Kabbalists. Push it into the light and let the world take it as they will. If it is torn apart by skeptics and cast aside by the public... So mote it be.

05:36 / 19.06.04

The only problem that I have with this is that Kaballah is "all the rage" with celebrities at this time, just as for a while, Scientology was. I'd be much more impressed if she were into something that isn't The Latest Hollywood Fad.

Unconditional Love

14:17 / 19.06.04

hmmm,

you feeling a little less underground and secluded?
so a little less cool as what was underground goes over ground wombling free.

eventually it all bubbles to the surface the shape of the bubbles may of changed, but if it gets more people intrested in these things, no matter whom, to me i see that as a good thing.

laterz.

15:02 / 19.06.04

I'd be much more impressed if she were into something that isn't The Latest Hollywood Fad.

Isn't she the one that started the fad anyways?

Besides, the only Ka Ballah I care about is the Mysterious Game That Foretells the Future!

13:12 / 21.06.04

After some thought, I think my reaction comes from fear that one day I'll mention what I'm into, and someone will respond, "oh, like Madonna?" Its the inevitable accusation that I'm doing it because the pop icon said it was cool that cheapens it for me, forceing me to be pompous about how much longer I've been at it than her etc. to preserve some validation in my own study, which is just a pain in the ass I'd rather avoid.

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

17:00 / 22.06.04

Yawn.....yes it is a little embarrassing for serious occultists and cabbalists to say the least.

Why is that?

19:10 / 22.06.04

This news story brings this thread into an overlap with this one. Apparently, see, the Pope’s a little ticked that high-profile Catholic Madonna is getting into one of the "threats to Christianity"....

19:59 / 22.06.04

The council, which met last week, singled out “Kabbalah as espoused by Madonna”

Gaa! See? Its over for us already.

The pope already thinks I'm a follower of Madonna.

I liked her better when she was being naughty with other girls. The guru thing is realy obnoxious.

06:51 / 23.06.04

you feeling a little less underground and secluded?
so a little less cool as what was underground goes over ground wombling free.

Actually no. I'm not feeling a little less underground at all. My practices are largely shamanic, I have little experience with kaballah. My point was that the stars trivialize various spiritual paths by making them into fads.

eventually it all bubbles to the surface the shape of the bubbles may of changed, but if it gets more people intrested in these things, no matter whom, to me i see that as a good thing.

I would argue that the publicizing of various traditions for means of aggrandizing one's ego actually harms them. Witness the devolution of witchcraft in the states. Compare books written in the eighties with the present ones. Has publicizing witchcraft actually helped it or harmed it? IMO, it has harmed it. We are now inundated with Teen Witch Spell kits, and lately, Fiona Horne graced our television for the apparently single purpose of showing several million people that she had not a single puff of "psychic energy". I'm not even sure that she was aware of how great a public relations disaster it really was. When I read the words of earlier occultists, and contrast them with the words of many present day authors, the difference to me is apparent. It is one of depth and substance. When a tradition becomes a fad, I would argue that it all to easily loses it's depth. Madonna's trotting out the tradition of kaballah will do just that, it will turn it into a fad.

08:24 / 23.06.04

"...Kabbalah as espoused by Madonna..."

I read this sentence as the Pope attempting not to anger the more serious scholars of the Kabbalah by saying that his objection is specifically to that flavor of Kabbalah as espoused by Madonna. Or am I being overly charitable?

Our Lady Has Left the Building

13:01 / 23.06.04

If she got in the habbit of making long impassioned speeches about things long past anyone's stamina to listen she'd be Esther Rants-on. Maybe on her next video she can have that talking dog and some humorously shaped vegetables. Ithankew.

13:36 / 23.06.04

From Wikipedia’s article on Xerxes 1, we get this rather interesting bit of Esther interpretation:

In the Bible, more specifically in the Book of Esther, Xerxes I is mentioned by the name of Ahasuerus (Hebrew אחשורוש ’Ăxašwērôš, Achashverosh). Esther was chosen as his queen after the failed invasion in Greece. The Bible tells how Haman, feeling insulted by the Jew Mordecai, tries to kill Mordecai and many Jews, but Mordecai, through Esther and Ahasuerus, manages to reverse their fate. This story must be considered an allegory because the events it relates never occurred. The story begins in the third year of the reign of Xerxes, which would be 484 B.C. He did not have a wife named "Vashti," (or "Esther," either) then or ever (his wife at this time was Amestris, daughter of a Persian general), but "Vashti" was the name of an Elamite goddess. "Esther," too, is the name of a goddess -- it's Aramaic for "Ishtar," the chief Babylonian goddess. ("Hadassah," the name Esther's family called her, comes from the Babylonian for "bride" and was one of Ishtar's titles.) "Mordecai" is a form of the Hebrew for "Marduk," the Babylonians' chief god. "Haman" comes from the name of the Elamites' chief god, "Hamman." "Shushan" is identified with Xerxes's capital, Susa. The allegory means that Babylonian gods replaced Elamite gods in Susa in the last years of the Assyrian Empire, and it was written at a time when the Macedonians posed the kind of danger to the Jews that the story describes.

13:51 / 23.06.04

So, uh, the link between Madonna's public image and Ishtar should be pretty clear.

And maybe she's been engaging in magickal warfare on a scale none of y'all are giving her credit for.

14:00 / 23.06.04

What is Ishtar the goddess of, exactly? (goes off to do Google search...)

Unconditional Love

14:02 / 23.06.04

orthodoxy does tend to kill the extreme energetics of a heresey granted, and as these areas become fads they do tend to loose alot of there inherant power.

to me this means any practice which can become part of the orthodox main streaming of consciousness has the potential to lose its power, only those that will never be accepted contain the power to push through the main streaming of consciousness and never be bound by it.

anything that can be sold to you as a product is already caught in that main stream, even the small underground springs have the potential to join with the stream, these things may start as trickles but they soon grow, i see that as natural, of course some water pools and becomes stagnant, eventually even that can flow into the stream.

and of course somethings float, and others just leave orbit.

simply, but i am feeling simple.

15:27 / 23.06.04

>> "The Lightbringer".
Babylonian High-Mother-Goddess.

Like Inanna, she is the goddess of fertility, love and war.
Her cult was the most important one in ancient Babylon
and Ishtar became under various names the most important Goddess of the Near-East and Western Asia.

Lightbringer, huh? "Ray of Light," anyone....?

She encompasses quite a number of topics, huh.

19:09 / 23.06.04

to me this means any practice which can become part of the orthodox main streaming of consciousness has the potential to lose its power, only those that will never be accepted contain the power to push through the main streaming of consciousness and never be bound by it.

Agreed. I believe what you are saying is that in spite of the dilution that occurs due to fad-ism, there will be practitioners that will not be influenced by that trend,(feel free to correct me). To me the real question would be whether as a whole ,the practice of magick is effected negatively by that. In a way, it remains to be seen, as magick has never achieved this level of popularity. Of course kaballah can also be an entirely mystical practice, but still, when one gets up into the higher levels of said practice, (or any mystical practice for that matter), the lines begin to blur.

And maybe she's been engaging in magickal warfare on a scale none of y'all are giving her credit for.

Huh. You know what? I REALLY hope so...... that would be, well, pretty cool.

19:32 / 24.06.04

Ishtar is also the goddess associated with temple prostitution, which is why she shows up in Sandman as a stripper.

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

19:48 / 24.06.04

And maybe she's been engaging in magickal warfare on a scale none of y'all are giving her credit for.

Goddam right! Think about it. She's been able to reach millions of people for years now. Even if she were simply a pop icon and not dabbling in the occult, she's got a pretty heavy influence on America. Relatively speaking.

odd jest on horn

18:15 / 25.06.04

Cusm said:
After some thought, I think my reaction comes from fear that one day I'll mention what I'm into, and someone will respond, "oh, like Madonna?" Its the inevitable accusation that I'm doing it because the pop icon said it was cool that cheapens it for me, forceing me to be pompous about how much longer I've been at it than her etc. to preserve some validation in my own study, which is just a pain in the ass I'd rather avoid.

Errm this has happened to me not once, but twice. The first time was before I even knew Madonna was into Kabbalah, so I thought the person was pulling my leg.
The second time I did resort to the whole but-I've-been-at-it-longer! :-/

But anyway, it seems she's espousing some folksy version of Kabbalism. Sort of like feng shui..? If I remember correctly she wears a red bracelet, cuz her Guru said it would bring her luck or some such thing.. err what? I mean maybe just saying this to her is an act of magick.. but it doesn't seem like a very powerful act of magick compared to what she's been doing her whole life..

BTW: I like her children's books :-)

21:55 / 25.06.04

Well...I have been "into" "occultism" for twenty-odd years and I have found Q/C/Kab(b)al(l)a(h) to be generally flaky and without much connection to real life...so it seems ideal (ha, pun) for Hollywoodland as far as I am concerned.

23:00 / 25.06.04

Well...I have been "into" "occultism" for twenty-odd years and I have found Q/C/Kab(b)al(l)a(h) to be generally flaky and without much connection to real life...so it seems ideal (ha, pun) for Hollywoodland as far as I am concerned.

Like Hollywood, Qabalah can be seen as superficial or profound. You have to be willing to trust it, I think. Ive embarrassed myself trying to explain it to people who dont already know it, but on the other hand Ive had mindblowing conversations with people who do know it. Im talking about Qabalah here. I dont understand Hollywood, but it seems some people--such as those who subscribe to celebrity magazines--find a lot to study there. I dont know how it works in Britain or Europe. Here in Canada, American celebrities are without doubt our modern pantheon.

Perhaps we can reveal Madonna's motives? Her choice of Ishtar is revealing: the goddess of love and war, who rules mens hearts in battle and in the bedroom, who relentlessly opposes the Hero (Gilgamesh).

Im illinformed about Babylonian mythos (and I have trouble remembering what came from Dungeons &Dragons or from Snow Crash), but I think Ishtar represents society in some way: perhaps through ritualization of emotion (marriage and temple prostitution...Im reaching a bit).

Madonna also has the aspect of a shapeshifter. Apparently shes now scrapping the irony of her virginal name. (Which is her true/birth name, is it not?)

Is she initiating Britney Spears?

odd jest on horn

02:30 / 26.06.04

Well...I have been "into" "occultism" for twenty-odd years and I have found Q/C/Kab(b)al(l)a(h) to be generally flaky and without much connection to real life...so it seems ideal (ha, pun) for Hollywoodland as far as I am concerned.

Hmmm a bit arbitrary perhaps, in the way in which the spheres are divided up, but I'm not sure about flaky. And for connection to real life, you might want to check out Colin Low's e-book: A Depth of Beginning.

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

20:03 / 26.06.04

Is she initiating Britney Spears?

Mmmm...initiation.

I've heard that Ms. Spears is giving up on it, or that she at least no longer wears the red bracelet thing.

It'd be pretty badass, though, if Madonna gathered together a whole crew of pop singers and trained them in occult arts.

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