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The death of the labour party?

09:10 / 13.06.04

We could lose next election, says Hain

Is anyone thinking about voting Labour at the general election now, just to avoid the Tories getting back in power now?

It's a crazily difficult thing, I reakon, because this government has done *so many things* that I for one find totally abhorant. On the other hand, the very thought of Prime Minister Michael Howard sends a shiver down my spine...

What do you think?

Is it too much to hope they'll actually change rather than risk loosing the next election?

19:48 / 13.06.04

The Labour Party - wasn't that that one that didn't defeat the Tories and was killed off by some chap called Blair?

21:23 / 13.06.04

Well, yes, obviously this isn't a new quandry, but for the first time we're actually contemplating the very real possibility of them not winning the next election, so it has a new... relevance/interest?

08:15 / 14.06.04

I was expecting a statement like this. To be honest, I think Hain's comments are the typical bog standard response wheeled out whenever the Labour Party gets in trouble - "you might not like us, but remember this" cue terrifying pictures of Maggie Thatcher. The fact that New Labour is pretty much a Thatcherite entity is conveniently forgotten.

I do think that any kind of leftist or socialist values have been slowly bled out of the political culture of this country, which is a crying shame really.

I started a thread awhile ago that looks at the decline of the Left: Nostalgia for the Left which you might find of interest.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

11:56 / 14.06.04

If anyone has any doubt about how Blair has betrayed the entire Labour party, I recommend reading David Peace's "GB84"- the Miners' Strike written as a crime thriller. If it doesn't make you angry, then, boy, your medication's fucking wicked.

To get back to the point...

we don't actually HAVE a Labour party any more. Thatcher's children have come home to roost. And it keeps getting worse. When Straw was home secretary, I was scared. I miss the fucker now... he seems a lot more reasonable than the tosser Blunkett. The real Labour party would never have put a xenophobic piece of shit in charge of immigration policy.

And Ken... Ken, Ken, you newt-loving softie... what the FUCK are you doing getting back into bed with these fuckers? Remember these are the people who, during the last mayoral election, and in the words of Mark Steel, kept saying "but why are they all voting for him? Can't they see he's unelectable?" Sort it out, Ken. Now you're safe as mayor, tell 'em to fuck off.

Democratically, what can you do? Vote for wankers or split the vote.

In case you couldn't tell, I'm not too impressed with the state of Western democracy right now.

12:30 / 14.06.04

Not being completely fluent in UK politics... have the Liberal Democrats filled in the hole in the Left where Old Labour was, or are they dodgy?

17:56 / 14.06.04

Personally, my main concern about the Lib Dems is their habit of putting out material during local election campaigns that inevitably turns out to be racist and opportunistic.

ONLY NICE THINGS

09:38 / 15.06.04

Really? Do you have any examples of this? It sounds like a bit of a deal-breaker.

Ironically, it seems that UKIP may be the saving of the Labour Party, by splitting the Conservative vote. This is a pretty earth-shattering change, if reflected in the General Election - first, because unless the Conservatives lurch ever further right in pursuit of the vote, in which case they risk losing what is left of their moderate support, they are pretty much banjaxed as an electoral force, and second because it will introduce a party in numbers to Parliament that is not a political party as we understand it but rather a bunch of drooling nutters. Yes, all right, I know. More of a bunch of drooling nutters.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

10:11 / 15.06.04

I do recall recently that the Lib Dems had distanced themselves from a particular (localised) leafleting campaign on the grounds that, yup, it was racist (I think "could have been construed as racist" was the official line, but from what I remember it was pretty damn offensive). I think it was more an example of a few dumb shits fucking it up for the party they claim to support than actual Lib Dem policy, but you'd think they'd check, wouldn't you?
I'm pretty sure it wasn't the first time, either.

10:52 / 15.06.04

Any further details on that? Sounds a bit.. weird.

But yeah, it's a shame that the Lib Dems more 'opportunistic' campaigning methods have a tendency to make them come across as a bit shifty, especially when most of the other parties are trying to present themselves in a more hardline yes/no "we've got INTEGRITY we have!" type manner.

Whale... Whale... Fish!

13:13 / 15.06.04

Personally, I don't see Labour losing the next election as such but I don't think they will gain a majority and will be forced into coalition with the Lib Dem's. This may or may not be a good thing. The plus side is that the Lib dems are IMHO the best out of a very bad lot. On the other side you only have to look at them in Scotland where they are in power with Labour and they haven't been great but then again they've been a hell of a lot better than Labour.

Over the last 10 years or so we've managed to lose pretty much the only decent scottish politicians or at least the only decent ones with any clout and we're left with...
(cue dramatic dun-dun-dah)
Jack McConnell, the self-serving tit of a man...

13:19 / 15.06.04

My web-fu is failing me at the moment, I'm afraid, so I can't currently point to anything to back this up. The main story I recall was during the run-up to a local election somewhere in the Midlands three or four years ago, when the Lib Dem campaign leaflet told people that they should vote their current (Labour, I think) MP out of office, because he was directly responsible for the terrible increase in immigrants and asylum seekers in the area, who were leeching benefits off the white population. That sort of thing. I've also got a very vague recollection of something similar happening elsewhere more recently than that, which may be what Stoatie's refering to. I'll keep trying to find sites that mention this stuff.

Tryphena Absent

14:28 / 15.06.04

And Ken... Ken, Ken, you newt-loving softie... what the FUCK are you doing getting back into bed with these fuckers?

Well, quite!!!!

There is no way on God's green earthy earth that I am ever voting Labour ever again. I may be reduced to voting for the Liberal Democrats- party of biased maniacs like Simon Hughes but hopefully that will change. When I move I can pay attention to local candidates, I will be finding myself a nice, Green MP to elect. I have abandoned the notion of tactical voting, that way leads to depression, morally I cannot place a cross beside the name of a crazy, murderous Labour arse licker any more than I feel right placing a cross beside a Tory bastard. At the end of the day they are all Thatcherites and I am not a believer.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

16:08 / 15.06.04

If I had no choice other than between Labour and Conservative, then I might possibly vote Labour, though with a very heavy heart. I'm not sure. As it is, I have more options here (which is more than can be said for too many parts of the country), so will either be voting Green or Lib Dem.