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Tulpas and Servitors

  
 
Joetheneophyte
12:47 / 07.06.04
A thread on the boards got me thinking.........I have read that Tulpas can get a 'life of their own' and possibly become vampiric, not caring where they obtain their 'sustainence' if they are not kept fed or they are not given a specific life term

Servitor and Tulpa are terms that to my ADMITTEDLY VERY VERY VERY LIMITED knowledge, are used pretty interchangeably

I invite any guidance that might tell me where the two differ and how so


I would assert that (from my limited knowledge).....a SERVITOR is given certain tasks that the creator asks and IF the parameters are set from the outset.....hopefully, they will follow their programs and instructions for the timescale stipulated in their creation


problems arise when the creator is not specific enough in their setting goals..........The created thoughtform/Servitor /Tulpa (concievably) is granted too much in the way of 'vagueness' and as such develops beyond it's programming and NOT always in the original intent of the 'programmer'


Presumably Servitors can achieve Egregore status and even GodForm status via multiple people charging the entity

(which I believe has happened to Fotamecus and even GEK as time goes by)






If intentions are not stipulated well enough in setting the parameters when creating the entity, such as protective clauses (AVOIDING HARM TO ALL as an example), then it is concievable that the new being might go awry and cause problems



I would be interested in stories , anecdotes and opinions on how Servitors and Tulpas differ (if at all)


and whether you agree that setting careful parameters can alleviate this potential problem


One last point, should we treat Servitors with respect and allow them 'growth' .....for example, one of the duties I am asking of my newest project is that ze enjoys hirself......I feel better allowing the entity to get job satisfaction



thoughts please folks :-)
 
 
Tamayyurt
13:29 / 07.06.04
Servitors- A servitor is a entity designed to accomplish a specific task. It's a thoughtform and depending on how long it's in existence and how many people use it it can become a godform but this is rare because servitors "die" once their function or task is complete. For the most part they're little more than "smart" sigils but could become much more.

Tulpas- Are not the same thing as a servitor. They are thoughtforms but more like separate and personified aspects of a personality. (i.e. Billy the Rage Tulpa or Francis the Alcoholism tulpa) they don't have a task or job to do their function is work/deal with certain emotional or behavioral problems in a detached manner. If left unchecked these entities could become big fucking problems since they usually embody the "negative" aspects of a person.

Egregores- Are a totally different animal all together. They are a shared or collective conscious that's become sentient... from covens to corporations. Coca Cola is an Egragore. The Barbelith Community can become (and probably already is) an Egregore. The Borg are an interstellar Egregore. Gek or Francis the Alcy cannot become Egregores because they are independent or dependent on one mind.... Egregore need to be made up of a lot of people.

Does that make any sense?
 
 
Joetheneophyte
13:47 / 07.06.04
that does

I thought that a Servitor could achieve greater things if more than one person involved themselves with it.....such as Fotamecus or even your very lovely GEK

I was under the impression that the extra OOOMPH!!!!! could push the entity up the next rung of the ladder and that a Group Servitor suitably charged could become an Egregore

Sorry, I am a neophyte and pretty new to the whole Magick game.


My only experience with Tulpas is reading Herbie Brennan and I admit that I had trouble understanding, not from anything being wrong with the writing but my own ignorance


How does a group Servitor differ from an Egregore?


And how does a Servitor become 'more' than its' original programming?


thanks for your input and I hope I do not come accross as questioning your opinion, I seriously am reliant on others on ehre in my current state of ignorance


cheers (and thanks for GEK)
 
 
Tamayyurt
14:38 / 07.06.04
I thought that a Servitor could achieve greater things if more than one person involved themselves with it.....such as Fotamecus or even your very lovely GEK.

Oh, it can. It can grow and evolve and possibly reach god-like status, but it can't turn into a Egregore.

How does a group Servitor differ from an Egregore?

Again, a servitor has one specific goal? Even if a lot of people use it. It'll grow and even change to meet everyone's needs. But it remains independent of them. It's not made up of them a servitor is not it's users. An Eregore is the sum of all the people using it. It doesn't have a specific goal, except to maybe keep living and reproduce. You wouldn't say that the Barbelith Underground is a servitor, would you?

And how does a Servitor become 'more' than its' original programming?

Well, it's creator could reprogram it or, through use and time, it'll just change.

And don't worry about asking questions, man, that's how we all learn. And I'm sure some people here will give you better answers than I.
 
 
Joetheneophyte
14:50 / 07.06.04
THANKS

That made sense and I think I get it

a Servitor is made usually by one person for a specific task or with a requirement built into its' programming

An Egregore is an entity that a group of people create......sort of the embodiement of the aims and directives of a group of individuals.....I have read that countries have Egregores that embody the Nationhood or the identity of the country


Now Tulpas I have no idea why anybody might want to construct one of them.....especially if as you say, they are traditionally used as a means to sideline a part of the personality , for whatever reason
 
 
Joetheneophyte
14:59 / 07.06.04
Actually I meant to write

a Servitor is an entity created with a specific task in mind....it can be used by more than one person (am I right?)

An Egregore forms when people form units or groups and is less goal orientated

a GodForm (to quote something I recently read and I apologise for quoting) is a 'Servitor on Steroids', though it has achieved a level of independance and is no longer bound by one individuals existence (AGAIN, PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG)



I am most interested in how and why TULPAS are formed and what purpose one could use such a being for?
What potential problems do they create if left unchecked?


Thanks IpulsiveLad and to anybody else who cares to add their opinion
 
 
trouser the trouserian
15:12 / 07.06.04
Servitors can loosely be thought of as "entities" consciously constructed to influence a particular task - or indeed a range of tasks - some sorcerers make a distinction between 'general-purpose' servitors or 'task-specific' servitors. They can be time-limited or not, it's up to the sorcerer(s) who create them.

problems arise when the creator is not specific enough in their setting goals..........The created thoughtform/Servitor /Tulpa (concievably) is granted too much in the way of 'vagueness' and as such develops beyond it's programming and NOT always in the original intent of the 'programmer'

I've used servitors on and off for over a decade and nothing remotely like this has ever happened to me.

Presumably Servitors can achieve Egregore status and even GodForm status via multiple people charging the entity.

No. Unless one has (IMO) a very simplistic view of what gods are. There's been several threads on the board debating this very point.

Tulpas as far as I can see, are pretty much the same as servitors or other 'constructed' entities. I don't know where Impulsive gets his definition of them from. Imp?

There's an article about egregores here you might find of use.

A Group Servitor is simply a servitor created and used by a group. It isn't, IMO at least, an egregore.
To give you an example, a few years ago, I was part of a group which created a servitor who's task was to help people heal themselves - it was basically a sequence of visualisations to 'launch' a distinct entity (which had a name, but was otherwise amorphous) so that they could activate it whenever they had a headache, hangover, tummyache, etc. As a group servitor, it worked very well. But it wasn't 'complex' in the same way that an egregore is sometimes considered to be - more like the astral equivalent of a hot water bottle, really. It was considered within the group that each successful 'usage' of the servitor enhanced its ability to provide general healing (in the sense that members acquired more 'confidence' in it - members were encouraged to send in reports on its successes and failures). But it wouldn't be considered an 'ideal type' in the same way that one might think of an egregore.
 
 
Joetheneophyte
15:25 / 07.06.04
thanks

I am just off home now from work but I have saved that article on Egregores and will read it tonite


thanks folks


most interesting and I am very grateful for all your input


Joe
 
 
trouser the trouserian
15:40 / 07.06.04
Threads discussing relationship between thought-forms & gods: here, here, and here
 
 
Joetheneophyte
08:45 / 10.06.04
hi again folks

been giving this some more thought and read (admittedly only the once and I will devote more time and a second reading in the near future) the links you kindly provided


I was particularly interested in the comparisons between Gods and literary characters. The argument (to my admittedly neophyte eyes) seemed to be that thought forms created in recent history .....let us use Superman as an example........... might be a different interpretation on the Solar god Apollo......same energy different face

It was also argued that a thuoght form could never be as well rounded as a God as the God has been around for a lot longer and thus much more adored and revered. This got me thinking..........surely whilst not adored as such, Superman has had a hell of a lot of energy invested in him over the years. Numerous creators adding different facets to the myth...........millions upon millions of readers from the thirties to the present day........Okay the level of adoration is nowhere near as much as that invested in a deity but with the much more populated world of the last 60 years, I would think that there are probably at least as many Superman readers out there (and TV show viewers.....movie goers etc) than ever worshipped the God Apollo. Even accounting for the population of the Meditaranean of the distant past, I would suggest more people have seen and viewed Superman movies and comics in the last 60 years, than ever went to the shrines to Apollo


I maybe wrong but the figures probably aren't that dissimilar as Greece and the surrounding areas populations were comparatively small by todays standards and even multi generational APOLLO worship would struggle getting the same numbers as Superman can reach in the multi media of todays world


as a result, is it convievable that the idea of Superman has grown to nearly be on a par with the Concept/God Apollo? Do you think that somewhere in the ether the two are having a metaphorical arm wrestle as to who is best at epitomising the pinnacle of human thought (even though he is Kryptonian , since his 'birth' Superman has held the same kind of ideals as Apollo allegedly embodied)


Does this even matter as it has been mentioned that Superman and Apollo may different faces for the same entity or force ....whatever......and as such they are one and the same, much as Ares and Mars are just different names for the same deity

we are anthromorphosising an ideal and as such, impinging our projected ideas onto something beyond human understanding. I am assuming that there is a dulaity here....I tend to veer to the idea that as much as we are getting in touch with the mentioned DEEP mind or collective unconscious, that at least temporarily (even spanning centuries if enough energyis invested in them), these entities do have some kind of seperate and independant existence
 
  
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