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Japan-A bit fucked?

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14:34 / 02.06.04

Any one hear about that 11 year old girl killing that 12 year old, bit grim.

Does anyones else think this is indicative of the culture glitch in Japan that is becoming more progressively more evident post WW2?

Japan hasn't come to terms with its rather violent racist past, google "japanese textbooks" an see. This present system has been artificially created by the Americans, and reinforced by them.

There was a massive break from the continuety of the nations history and a kind of artificial culture created post WW2. from 250 years of rule by the warrior caste to a fiercly nationalistic expansionist regime, then suddenly post war, a country that forbides any kind of military activity exept for "defence" whilst at the same time not acknowledging the crimes commited in china, korea etc.

At the same time there is mainstream pretty damb extreme violent media that is being produced, Allowing the public to experiance violence vicriously, rather than it being put channeled through other less destructive means.

All these really rather messed up jive thats happening is just this violence that hasnt been come to terms with in the culture overspilling.

Im not sure that made much sense but what does everyone else think?

17:19 / 02.06.04

Dude....You bore me.

03:55 / 03.06.04

I'd be curious to know what you're referring to when you say, "violent media that is being produced, Allowing the public to experiance violence vicriously, rather than it being put channeled through other less destructive means." The statistics I've seen indicate that violent vidiogames are much less popular in Japan than they are in the U.S. I've watched some animae, and the general ethos seems to be that violence should only be used in defence, and as a last resort at that. If you're referring to hentai, then you might as waell try judging the U.S. by watching "Debbie Does Dallas."

13:53 / 03.06.04

I was under the impression that Japan had (relatively recently) apologized for the whole "comfort women," Rape of Nanjing, Bataan Death March thing.

On the other hand...

and, well, hmmmm.

14:53 / 03.06.04

it seems to me that children killing is not new, and in fact neither is children killing children.

not only that, but it isnt so japanese.

children who kill
columbine
james bulger

dont forget the soldiers

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

00:17 / 06.06.04

I dunno...the japanese have always seemed to me to be so incredibly polite and sane that they almost have to be fucking crazy. I mean, all that pressure...I suppose there's bound to be a few people who just crack up, or wander down the road to psychoticness unwatched because they are meeting all of society's standards.

But really, if you want to judge a people or a country or even a city by a few children's behavior, a twelve year old boy in the next town over hung himself in his closet with a belt. I mean, damn. Twelve. That's fuckin' hardcore.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

09:44 / 06.06.04

Yeah, there're fucked people everywhere, and there're historical reasons for it in pretty much every culture- you could probably pin, say, a society that produces the kids who killed Jamie Bulger or produces a Mary Bell on being a small country used to punching above its weight, having lost its Empire...

I guess it's just easier to spot when it's elsewhere.

Although Ken Campbell has an interesting theory on the Japanese reputation for politeness- it's not even a cultural trait... it's just that Anne of Green Gables is apparently a popular text for learning English. (Being Ken, this could well be bollocks. But also being Ken, it's worth considering.)

I guess if you used Mein Kampf to learn German you'd come across as being a bit weird when you spoke the language.

Although there does seem to be an accelerated culture in Japan- new technology seems to bring change more often than not, and "they're" better at inventing stuff than "we" are...

10:27 / 06.06.04

I'd be curious to know what you're referring to when you say, "violent media that is being produced, Allowing the public to experiance violence vicriously, rather than it being put channeled through other less destructive means."

Well, I imagine what was meant was something along the lines of the INSANE extreme violence movies of Takeshi Miike. Like Ichi the Killer, or Dead or Alive.

I'm not really sure about the 'cultural diagnosis' of Japan either, but this is worth a read:

Minister blames women's advancement for school slaying

Skeleton Camera

23:59 / 06.06.04

I don't know if Tokyo Decadence is symptomatic of Japanese culture as a whole or just an extreme example of what can happen in such a media-saturated vicarious environment. But Miike, hentai, panty-vending machines, and 'sexual harrassment' clubs (made up as subway cars, featuring women dressed as schoolgirls for chatting up and groping)...all this makes me wonder.

But I have never been to Japan, and so all this stuff is vicarious to me.

11:49 / 07.06.04

I was going to start bitching about why this thread hasn't been deleted, but... subway car clubs with gropable Japanese schoolgirl hostesses? Oh snap, there go my ethics again. Come to Uncle Creepy, my dear, heeheeheee!
And I have to admit, Japanese do tend to implode. I used to know this incredibly talented cartoonist from Japan, his editor was exploiting the hell out him, riding his talent, but creatively stifling him and probably not paying him, either, if I know the guy. The kid took it and took it, last I heard he had "some kind of weird Japanese breakdown and burned the place down", as I heard it. Pity. He was the coolest fucker EVAR. Great coat. And frankly, looking at what he could do made me want to throw down my pen and never draw again, like Nigel Tuffnel when he heard Ingvie J. Malmsteen...

ONLY NICE THINGS

20:07 / 07.06.04

I was going to start bitching about why this thread hasn't been deleted, but... subway car clubs with gropable Japanese schoolgirl hostesses? Oh snap, there go my ethics again. Come to Uncle Creepy, my dear, heeheeheee!

Which i think maybe suggests that perhaps this is not some weird headwrong thing about the Japanese...

I dunno - I'm hearing ultraviolent movies, sex clubs... in what sense is this significantly different from the major city you live in?

00:48 / 08.06.04

I don't know what you're talking about.

Clearly we in the West would never succumb to the filthy foreign influences of exploitative porn, child murder or publicly-sanctioned displays of fictional violence. All of those things are utterly unheard of.

06:57 / 08.06.04

This thread touches on some similar issues. I'm in slight disagreement with some of my comments on there. Orr's post is probably best thing in there.

07:29 / 08.06.04

I find this thread thoroughly offensive, and I'm surprised that so many people are indulging it.

Regrettable Juvenilia

07:43 / 08.06.04

Well, several people have pointed out the flimsiness of the premise; others have been content to say "I dunno, those crazy Japanese look a little suspicious to me!", or "I've never been there but I here they have crazy shit!" or "I knew a Japanese guy once: crazy!"... I'm requesting it be moved to the Conversation, for starters.

07:55 / 08.06.04

(gasp) You feminazi.

07:58 / 08.06.04

Really, though, this thread is retarded. Blame us for, um, dumbing it up? Just lock the fucker and sink it.

ONLY NICE THINGS

08:11 / 08.06.04

Hmmm. The interesting thing about this thread is that clearly the person who began it thought that he was making a decent point, and that there probably *is* a decent point in there - that of how various things make Japan distinct as a state - the post-war occupation and reconstruction, the long perod without an army, its rapid westernisation... unfortunately, his understanding of Japanese history, culture and society is hopelessly inadequate to the task, which means that the thread starts off racist and doesn't get much better. Perhaps deletion would be a kindness...

08:17 / 08.06.04

When I was in Japan everyone I met seemed thoroughly normal.

Does that help?

09:50 / 08.06.04

I'm not really helping, am I?

15:00 / 08.06.04

no.
but then you werent trying to, so job done, eh?

18:54 / 08.06.04

When I was in Japan I killed thirty-seven young children right on the street and nobody blinked.

19:07 / 08.06.04

Dude that wasn't Japan, that was Westworld. Didn't you see Yul Brynner?

19:14 / 08.06.04

Dude!

EXTERMINATE!! EXTERMINATE!!

19:19 / 08.06.04

That's right, they say that you can tell the robots by looking at their hands.

19:26 / 08.06.04

Assertion: Yul Brynner = Nimrod

Evidence:
Both bald.
Both have circuits in their faces.
Both not alive.
Both hate mutants.

!!!

Tom Tit's Tot: A Girl!

20:14 / 08.06.04

Actually, in Japanese culture, mental breakdown is not often a violent thing. Not that it can't be, but investigation into the strange psychological disorder known as hikikomori suggests that agoraphobia and self-destructive behaviour is much more common in those with serious disorders.

10:19 / 09.06.04

Nimrod is inargueably a super-advanced robot, but the question remains- does he eat poo?

08:47 / 12.06.04

Sorry i kind of started this thread on a whim, but im quite glad i caused so much lively discussion! and fair enough I didn't really think my point through all that much , but i think most of you are being a bit mean.

I'm really dont think my point was racist, many Japanese authors have said much the same thing, Haruki Murakami for example in relation to the Tokyo underground attacks.

I don't think my Knowledge of Japanese history is all that bad either, I was just attepting to critique albeit in a very roundabout way how American imperialism has fucked up their culture quite a bit, creating this facade that seems to have been internalised by the japanese people that would not have come about had the americans not stepped in. In post war Gemany for example pretty much the entire ruling elite was disposed of and the coming to terms with their war crimes was fundamental to Germany developing with a certatin amount of continuity. With Japan on the other hand the ruling elite was not removed, and denial of many of the war crimes committed is accepted by mainstream Japanese media, and japan has never really come to terms with its past, at the same time the same ruling elite has continued in its role, and their value systems have not changed just its facade altered and this trickles down into the culture, at the Japanese cultures heart there seems to be this contradiction they are now a "peace loving" people fair enough but the beleif system frame work that led to japans war like nature previously is still in place.

I kind of believe this leads to the frequency of child on child killings , super big suicide rate etc

actually maybe i am being a bit racist...

10:35 / 12.06.04

Yes, the Evil Imperialist Collossus really fucked them up by not burning down their Reichstag and making them use the NTSC method of representation instead of the much more equitable PAL. Before the US turned up for the first time ever in 1954 in the USS Big Mac they were a peaceful nation of home-loving farmers who'd never as much as thought of, say, ruling Manchuria. Thankfully there is a movement these days to prevent this kind of thing happening. It is called "Orientalism."

12:33 / 12.06.04

dude, i wasnt being mean.
i didnt even call you a racist, despite the crap you were talking. i engaged with you, adding information to your thread in the hopes that you might, i dunno, be interested.

your point was basically that you believe japanese children are more violent because japan is more fucked up.

i have shown that i think child violence is not particularly japanese, and you havent explained to me how i could be wrong.

in my opinion, your entire point falls squarely on its badly thought out arse, and you arent helping it up.

16:43 / 12.06.04

erm read ma post yo, I didnt say Japan was a peace loving nation pre-ww2 thats what the majiority of my point was!

I'm not saying that Japanese people are more violent its just the system they are raised in means that violent or aggrasive impulses are not given adequate means of expression, so that aggresive impulse is either directed inward or pent uup and then very violently expressed upon others.

The frequency of child on child killings in Japan does seem to be higher than in western europe/America etc, I'm not really basing that on any hard evidence just the number of news stories ive read or perhaps its just the number thatt are reported.

I did

16:55 / 12.06.04

Evidence? Perhaps links to the stories? Otherwise feh.

20:20 / 12.06.04

Your case (and I'm being slightly generous using the word) is based entirely on unfounded generalisations. And the response you've received is pretty much a textbook Barbelith response to such behaviour. I've seen much stronger responses here to things which are to my mind less offensive than describing an entire country as "fucked". So IMO, you've got off lightly.

08:15 / 13.06.04

It looks like this is one of those cases that was caused by [insert your favourite theory here]. Feminazis have been blamed by the Japanese Disaster Prevention Minister (how come we don't have one of those?) and our friend the Internet also did it.

From the BBC story it looks like they could only dig up three cases of child-on-child murder in Japan in the last five years or so. So maybe not the biggest problem facing the country.

Rhythmic Vigor: if you want to talk about the cultural causes of violence, cultural difference in notions of childhood, and/or the relative murder rates in different countries, go ahead, but saying "I get the feeling that Japanese people are more violent than Americans" is unconvincing without, at the very least, some statistics - and generalizing from a single case to the national characteristics of an entire group is kind of a textbook definition of racism, so it looks a bit dodgy when you say "There has been a murder in Japan! It must be because the whole country is fucked!"

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