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contacting the gods

 
 
paw
00:48 / 05.11.01
how many of you have invoked demons/ gods etc? when they appear, contact you or whatever can you actually feel them, see them physically? at the moment i think i've reached a plateau in my magick studies, i've read liber null , practiced breathing exercises resulting in numerous trance states and have also cast off more than a few sigils that have never worked . at the moment i'm a bit skeptical about magick and was wondering how long do you have to be at this stuff til you start seeing john lennon heads and the secrets of the larval universe begin downloading into your head? can any of you tell me about really momentous/ head fuck type magickal experiences that made all those breathing exercises worth it?
 
 
Tamayyurt
01:57 / 05.11.01
::Scratches head:: Am I the only one answering your posts? Shame, there are waaay better magicians here that would be of much greater help... sorry you ended up with me

Anyway, I've worked with a bunch of gods mostly, Thoth, Ganesh, Hermes, the Santeria Orishas, Ochun and Eleggua... and my own servitors Win and Gek.

I have never seen them and they have never spoken to me... but they communicate with me in other less obvious ways and of course I see results (which is the best thumbs up)! Would I like to have long two way conversations with them? OF COURSE! But remember, both grant morrison and king mob were on acid when they had the visions you mentioned.

I gotta get me some of that shit!
 
 
the Fool
02:11 / 05.11.01
I got a weird message message from IXAT in a cab the other day. All very odd.

Then there was this strange mind thing with the great red spot of jupiter which freaked the fuck out of me...

Who knows really? Things happen when your ready.
 
 
SMS
02:25 / 05.11.01
IXAT is the name of the taxi (spirit? god? something or other).

The, how exactly would you describe communicating with IXAT? Did you're eyes perceieve something? Was it a clear figure of a spirit? Do spirits have clear figures? Was it rather a sight that someone else may have recognized as exhaust from the tailpipe, or some other more mundane thing, but that still conveyed a message to you. And the same basic questions for each of your senses.

Or was it something entirely different?

seanmcglinchey, you should always remain skeptical about magic. That's really the only way you can be open-minded about it. But I also see what you're saying. Let me offer this bit of advise. As long as your practising, always mix in some things that could be considered useful in the old materialistic model. Meditation, prayer, and other things can make the whole experience worth while. And in the end, if you discover nothing weird enough to blow your mind away, then you'll have learned some nice meditation techniques along the way (and maybe let go of some of the things you don't like about yourself)<---personal experience.
 
 
the Fool
02:46 / 05.11.01
quote:Originally posted by All-Loving SMatthewStolte:
IXAT is the name of the taxi (spirit? god? something or other).

The, how exactly would you describe communicating with IXAT? Did you're eyes perceieve something? Was it a clear figure of a spirit? Do spirits have clear figures? Was it rather a sight that someone else may have recognized as exhaust from the tailpipe, or some other more mundane thing, but that still conveyed a message to you. And the same basic questions for each of your senses.

Or was it something entirely different?


I was wandering home from a friends house fairly stoned and I thought I would catch a cab. Before getting in the cab I wondered "Will IXAT have a message for me?"

I got in the cab, sought of expecting the conversation with the cab driver would be how a message would be delivered. But the cab driver was silent, so I thought "must be no message then". Then I heard what was on the radio.

I posted what I heard in another thread.

It might have been from IXAT, it might have been just a random strange encounter. No proof either way. It felt strange, that's why I attribute it to IXAT. It doesn't really matter either way, it can make life more amusing to sometimes assume against the reasoned.
 
 
Wyrd
16:01 / 05.11.01
quote:Originally posted by seanmcglinchey:
how many of you have invoked demons/ gods etc? when they appear, contact you or whatever can you actually feel them, see them physically?


I think one of the hardest things to understand when you start is how to figure out the line of communication between you, and Everything Else.

People are very fixated on physically seeing things. This does happen for some people, but for a lot more people it never happens. Some people get certains smells that communicate information, and for some people it is an emotional communication. For me I see things, but mainly in my head. I do get a lot of "out of the corner of my eye" stuff, which is a good indication that I should start paying attention. Depending on my trance state I can physically see more sometimes, but it's a lot more mentally visual for me.

It's important to remember that the imagination is a very useful tool. It's through that medium that a lot of information is processed. We can also invent things ourselves using the imagination. So, early on we have to be critical about what we are getting that is independent of us, and what we are feeding internally.

After a while, if you work at it, you usually know there is a particularly vibe/feeling/sensation you get when you know that you are communicating with something outside of yourself (though the whole interconnectedness thing blurs that a bit).

I don't invoke stuff very much. They have a tendancy of just turning up, and then I'll just have a word with Them and see what it is They want. Sometimes it's just the time of year, or someone else I'm around that brings Them strongly to my mind.

The kind of entities I've worked with: many, many Animal spirits, Odhinn, Ganesh, Baron Samedhi, Obatala, the Morrigan, Bhrid, Legba, Sekhmet, Ancestral wights, Guides of various ilks, various other-dimensional entities, Faery, Star People... and I'm sure I've left out loads.

As implusivelad said, results are what is important. Sometimes it can be easy to ignore messages because you're expecting the equivalent of a burning bush! The universe/whatever communicates to us all the time, but often in very simple, and direct, ways.

Er, I hope that's helpful.
 
 
Ierne
16:30 / 05.11.01
I agree with Wyrd in that many people tend to expect intense visual/aural stimuli or mind-shattering experiences when communicating with deities and anything else is considered a failure or disappointment. My experiences have been somewhat more subtle.

Also, many books tend to give the impression that one casts a circle, invokes, and <poof!> there's your entity of choice, right in front of you! RIGHT NOW! and if s/he's not there (RIGHT NOW!), then one has failed miserably. Not true!

I've never invoked demons, but gods tend to not be too concerned with linear time, or human concepts re: success and failure. They'll hear you out and respond, but not always by the book or in the expected manner.
 
 
What do you mean?
17:24 / 05.11.01
A god ignored is a demon born.
 
 
akira
18:27 / 05.11.01
I had a bit of weird experiance once where I senced something that smelt like burnt tea. And there was definatly no tea burning going on in the house. Dont know which demon/god to associate this with though, anyone else had this sensation?
 
 
Ria
18:34 / 05.11.01
other people (Alan Moore for one) though have mentioned that they have had no problem in doing evocations which roused up creatures as real as life though.

I have had this happen to me in synagogue though not consciously and it seemed stranger and sillier than what we would expect a divine presence to look like but it looked as solid as anything in the room right now.

no I won't tell you. I will save my description for a more formal piece of writing.
 
 
Wyrd
09:18 / 06.11.01
quote:Originally posted by Silver Surfer:
I had a bit of weird experiance once where I senced something that smelt like burnt tea. And there was definatly no tea burning going on in the house. Dont know which demon/god to associate this with though, anyone else had this sensation?


Yeah, some people get information through smell very strongly. Scent is a very powerful trigger for memory, and is used a lot in ritual.

So, a question to ask is: with what do you associate burnt tea? Is there a relative who used to burn your tea? Perhaps it's meant to evoke a particular sensation/atmosphere.

Perhaps you should burn some tea and meditate on the smell!
 
 
Mordant Carnival
09:18 / 06.11.01
Well, I did get my Walkman hijacked by Loki several years back. But that might have been down to stress.
 
 
cat likes fish
09:18 / 06.11.01
all- loving made a point. if you wont to see god's the ones who came before you from buddist monks to crowly all took drugs to force vishons unliss you have a sweat lodge this is the most likely way i prefer voodoo or the like in the end most of the time you need to make the spirits feal comfy or even more so make your self "in the mood"all those that came before used drumes fluts and ether instroments but congrads you live in the 21st century take that loreena mckennitt c.d. of your shelf and put that on magic is alot like having relly good sex, start with fore play don't just try to jump to visions of gods get to know thim take a retreat to if you live near one a temple. in there honer if you can't do that try channeling them if you wont to talk to thime it's best not to do it into your self but if you work with a group you are in luck . if you don't thine find some one that is alot like that god or goddess you wont to contact. DO NOT DO THIS WITH DEVILS even thow that will be the ones that will responed ferst so ward the liveing shit out of your chantrey whin you do this. the first time i pulled this i dident get the church grups off my porch for a week or at least that night so be carefull as if you wher holding your new born son in your hands if you are not that experienced thine forget it if you have a teacher thin get thim to help. in the end your best bet would be to prey to that god in this case lets say ganesh thin do some praying thin go out to a cuery stand or make some some one is bound to come along with the annsers you are looking for ---------vensint veratos
 
 
Lothar Tuppan
09:18 / 06.11.01
I agree with everything that Wyrd and Ierne already posted with these additional comments...


quote:Originally posted by Wyrd:


It's important to remember that the imagination is a very useful tool. It's through that medium that a lot of information is processed. We can also invent things ourselves using the imagination. So, early on we have to be critical about what we are getting that is independent of us, and what we are feeding internally.


As Wyrd said above, the difference between what the ego creates and the independent information that we receive is so incredibly subtle. Being able to recognize one over the other is essential to working magic.

One of the biggest problems with working with the 'spirit world' (whether you go there or bring them to you) is that even when you start off 'seeing' correctly you can easily slip into an ego controlled 'daydream'. Being able to recognize that, gently correct it and get back on track is one of the hardest and most important aspects.

Guilt and doubt can break a good trance quicker than anything else. Those quick feelings of unworthiness and "oh shit, I'm just deluding myself" will drown out any valid info from whatever Gods, demons, spirits, etc. that you are contacting.

Be gentle with yourself when you feel yourself wavering, or when you feel doubts. It not only can bring things back on track, it also shrinks some of the negative aspects of the ego and strengthens humility.

Oh, and for the record, I've never experienced a physical manifestation of a spirit. Maybe physical effects (some sounds, things being knocked over, animals suddenly freaking out, the above mentioned 'corner of eye' stuff) but more often than not it's subtle impressions on non-physical senses.

Spirits and Gods and Demons etc. aren't physical beings. In the same way that magic isn't about casting fireballs or lightning bolts, evoking spiritual beings isn't about having an entity in a physical body showing up in your living room.

That's why in so many different cultures spirit embodiment is so prevalent. If someone really needs to hear a physical voice to tell them something, an appropriate person who will be 'ridden' by the spirit can be available for the ritual. This is especially prevalent in cultures where the majority of the congregation aren't magicians themselves but they need (and 'pay' for) advice/blessings from the 'gods'.

[ 06-11-2001: Message edited by: Lothar Tuppan ]
 
 
Ierne
11:55 / 06.11.01
...other people (Alan Moore for one) though have mentioned that they have had no problem in doing evocations which roused up creatures as real as life though. – Ria

I thought a bit about this last night, because I've also heard about similar situations – both in print and by people I've met.

Previous posts have suggested that drugs may have something to do with the visions; I would humbly add that in certain cases the incense used in rituals is for the specific purpose of giving a spirit a base for its manifestation. the incense can do this in two ways:

The smoke itself provides a visual focus, and various ingredients used to create the incense can have a hallucinatory effect when inhaled.

If the magician has fasted before the ritual, or deprived hirself of sleep, visual experiences are extremely likely as well.

I'm curious about your synagogue experience!

Like Lothar, I've not had an actual visual manifestation of a Deity. (yet... ) I've been taken over by Deity perhaps three times in my life, and none of them were glamourous experiences (a bit embarrassing actually...I mentioned one in expressionless' NT thread).
 
 
Seth
13:58 / 06.11.01
This is all fascinating.

Most of my experience is communication via impressions. These are picked up in a number of ways, from any of my senses. However, I often receive information in what feels like physical impartation: the revelation is “downloaded” into my chest area (less odd than it sounds. A lot of studies show that the heart may have its own form of consciousness from all its dedicated neural tissue - a consciousness quite different to the normal head variety). My mind processes the information, and helps filter out my own influence. It is possible to develop a sense of what is true and what is not: it feels as though there is a difference in quality, a quickening of the blood when actual communication is established. There are some people, however, who don’t experience sensations at all, and who rely on faith as their guide.

Saying all that, I know tons of people (including family members) who’ve seen physical manifestations of a variety of different types (the Christian God, angels or demons are the most common, given my background, but also shapeshifters in some Eastern countries: people physically changing into animals or other people. There are a number of strange symptoms that can show up when someone is possessed that I’ve experienced, which are physical manifestations of a kind).
 
 
Ria
14:27 / 06.11.01
I don't know if this has any relevance to my post or the thread as a whole but as a kid I would hear my name called by a voice the owner of which I met in an OOBE/lucid dream and in at least one dream. so in a way I think that I had a clearer audio channel than visual if you know what I mean.

models like NLP tend to cluster people into whether people process info most verbally or visually or by touch or whatever. this could factor into entity contacts. the evocation kind more than the spontaneous kind perhaps.
 
 
Tamayyurt
16:14 / 06.11.01
Come on Ria, please tell us about your synagogue experiance!
 
 
Gus
17:22 / 06.11.01
In my experience, I've found that godforms don't generally like to mess about with the fabric of reality by doing things like generating a physical body out of nothing to house their essence unless there is a pretty good reason, and chatting with curious magicians usually doesn't cut it. This being said, they still have other ways to communicate. I've become used to two of these:

Man-made godforms (those whom I consider to be born out of the imagination and worship of humans) normally use the same technique that chaos mages do: they influence probabilities to bring about certain natural events which don't break natural laws but cause a desired effect. They usually have a large selection of personal symbols at their disposal that they can use to make the contact recognizable. Bear in mind that some of these entities have been communicating with man for millenia and have gotten the hang of how to do it in a cost-effective manner, however they are used to dealing with people who have been specially trained in their ways and can thus interpret their "code". When attempting to contact such entities, first read up on them and learn all their associated symbols: glyphs, totem animals, weapons, tools, alternate names and titles, centers of worship... read any stories and myths in which they star to recognize their typical behaviour. And then wait. If you suddenly begin to encounter major chains of synchronicities featuring these symbols, this is the god talking. Take note of where and in what situation which symbol is encountered and try to deduce the intended message. Try to follow their lead if they suggest one. Once you are in contact with one entity you are dealing with the traditionnal symbolism of the society which created it. So if certain symbols to them meant danger, wealth, love, bad/good luck, etc... they may be used. It is also a good idea when creating your own servitors to assign them such symbols and instruct them to use this to communicate with you. This has worked for me.

The other form of communication I've encountered comes from what I call natural entities: those which were not intentionally created but were born out of the amalgamated emanations of lifeforce and the coalesced thoughts and emotions of beings living together within a particular area. They include both nature spirits native to a forest, mountain, lake or similar place, but also the spirits of cities. These entities normally lack a clear, preset form of communication and are also less used to talking to humans. Accordingly, this type of contact is a bit harder to make and always vague a best (for me anyway). It consists mostly of emotional influence. It necessitates a period of acclimatization to the area, getting a feel for it, finding sensitive points. Then meditating and attempting to send basic images and emotions to the spirit and waiting to feel something in return. It's a lot harder to believe since it's basically all in your head but you eventually learn to recognize actual contacts from imagined ones, and it can be very rewarding. Talking to cities, especially, is useful and has become a favorite of mine.

Both of these methods assume communication within our own reality. If an entity has the right opportunity it will prefer to work in a reality where it can take control of the environment without stretching natural laws and expending vast amounts of energy. This means getting the receiver into an altered state of consciousness. The best moment for this is while dreaming. After an apparently failed ritual, pay close attention to your dreams. Learn to remember them well. The second best, as it's been said, is while under the influence of some hallucinogenic substance.

OK, this is long enough as it is, personal examples perhaps later.

All of the above, of course, is IMOLU (In My Own Little Universe).

[ 06-11-2001: Message edited by: Gus ]
 
 
Professor Silly
03:48 / 07.11.01
I once invoked a Goddess (quite accidently) into another person--her looks completely changed, and she no longer seemed...quite...human.

I stress the word "accidently" as I haven't repeated the results since. My only advice is to keep the skeptical mindset: be impartial, and record your results, keeping it as scientific as possible. That way you can correct your errors more quickly and progress faster.
 
 
Ria
17:16 / 07.11.01
I cannot remember my age. nineish? in synagogue (the only time I ever visited there unless I did as part of a friend's bar mitzvah) I noticed a pair of green glowing hands each about the size of me holding a tome. they looked like glow-in-the-dark plastic. they looked the hands I could imagine writing on the wall in the Bible story. I cannot remember if they moved. the book looked more impressive to me than the hands.

walking out I began to ask my father what the hands meant and by the time I had finished the question knew that he would not know what I meant so did not go on.

they sound to me a little like the glowing heads that appear to people with some kinds of epilepsy as mentioned in the notes to From Hell. and I may have temporal lobe epilepsy so I don't know...
 
 
Spaids
12:22 / 16.04.02
I can definitely associate with Gus' point about talking to cities. I enjoy being in the countryside but find I can "connect" far more efficiently within the confines of concrete and stone(aka a city). This probably stems from my time as a 'hunter' (but more about that some other time perhaps); either way I find cities and buildings to be very much alive and the 'spirits' that inhabit/associate with them to be very friendly and forthcoming once you know how to act.
 
 
cusm
14:47 / 16.04.02
As above, I've learned to communicate through noticing syncronicities, or by noticing when something I percieve just sort of stands out as important somehow, and should be treated as an omen. You learn to trust your gut, and pay attention. Spirit speaks through many subtle voices, you need only learn to hear it.

I have had direct encouters at times, but it was always through either drugs, dreaming, or otherwise working myself into an altered state. You can get there through meditation, but its hard and takes years of practice.

I've had the corner of the eye thing now and then, or the "blink and its gone" type of manifestation with various spirits, natural and "ghostly". Those feel like a trick of the eye, something you can dismiss easily, but that is one way to see as well.

Then there are energy visualizations, psi-balls and the like. That's kind of like controlled and focused daydreaming. Its not as easy as it sounds. The effort makes is a focus for will, which can have magickal effects. When you work with people who do this, you can learn to see it when others do it. Again, you're seeing with the mind's eye, filtering something you are understanding through the visual or other senses. Its not done with the physical senses at all. You just need to learn to sort out what your ego is imagining and what you are filtering through the mind's eye, which is a tricky art.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
16:55 / 16.04.02
I'm not sure how much help I can be as the only god I have worked with is Hermes, who seemed really helpful and forgiving (if a bit mischevious). To my knowledge, he never made a physical appearance, but I was concentrating pretty hard on the ritual and the single flame involved. From what I've heard, after a successful ritual, you feel really energized. That's about all I can give you, except that it really pays to know a lot about whatever god/demon you're working with, and that my ritual went okay without the god ever making a physical appearance.
 
  
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