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Thread "ownership"

 
 
Mazarine
00:15 / 16.05.04
Does the poster who starts a thread have ownership over that thread? I ask because in the Creation, in the recent "Is this art?" thread, there seems to have been an attitude on the part of some posters that the thread "belongs" to Rage, and if she wants it deleted, it should be. Personally, I disagree with this, since I think the people who responded have a right to have the thread, and their responses, remain.

I didn't see anything specific about thread/post ownership in the wiki, and I can't recall any established policy or even a strong tendency in either direction. Is there a policy I'm missing, or is this kind of up in the air?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
00:20 / 16.05.04
There isn't, and this is something else which I think we should cover.

What is certain, however, is that the thread starter doesn't own it. There are contributions from other members in there which they may not want deleted. This is why Barbelith does things slightly different to most message boards - deleting the first post in a thread doesn't delete the entire thread (it used to, back when we were on UBB) and partly why we've got distributed moderation in the first place - there were a couple of occasions in the past when the poster of the opening post in a thread threw a moody and wiped everything, meaning that entire, useful discussions were lost in the process.
 
 
w1rebaby
00:28 / 16.05.04
As far as I'm concerned, once someone starts a thread, it becomes community property.

It's politeness that people do things like respect the original topic, but that's a rule to do with community behaviour rather than the rights of the thread starter. If people post things that have nothing to do with the original topic then it makes discussion rather difficult.
 
 
Bed Head
00:30 / 16.05.04
It was before my time, but I’ve enjoyed moseying through the famous innercircle thread. Similar demands were made. In a similarly foot-stampy manner.

And I’m very glad the thread stayed.
 
 
Linus Dunce
00:58 / 16.05.04
IC crypto ...

Why is it that Tom does not own the thread? And why are his moderators not free to delete it, should they all agree?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
07:55 / 16.05.04
Well yeah, I guess Tom does own the thread, in that he has final say over whether the board itself even stays up. The thread, I would say, is the property of the board... the board being Tom's, blahdi blah.

And moderators ARE free to delete a thread, if they all agree to do so... they just tend not to, for reasons outlined above.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:24 / 16.05.04
Way-ull.. Innercircle kind of decided this issue. The thread starter doesn't get to delete the thread, and is not able to command that the thread be deleted. What the thread starter *can* do is, say, PM the forum moderators, explaining why they think the thread should be deleted and asking the moderator to propose or support a thread deletion. In most cases, if the thread is not too long and the arguments are good, that should probably work out OK. Demanding that a thread be deleted because you don't like the way it's going... that's less likely to work. And if a thread has been going for a long time, it might make it very hard to win the moderators over to the idea that it should be deleted without a ver' good reason...
 
 
Tom Coates
12:38 / 16.05.04
I agree with this principle. If you put something out into the public sphere and other people contribute and add to it, then you don't have ownership in any property sense OR conceptual sense of the stuff that follows. Moreover you don't even have the right to change what you have written, because that could change the interpretation of posts that happen afterwards casting other people and their reactions in very different lights. That's why edits by individuals have to be ratified by a moderator. If people want their posts deleted, then that's another matter - again it's important for us to remember that by removing key posts you can render a thread that other people have contributed to meaningless and as such you still don't have absolute rights of removal (according to the principles of the board at least) - but on the whole moderators are much less nervous about this kind of thing, particularly when it's not a key post in a thread.

The role of the moderator is to do what they think is best for the board, and if that means suggesting that the whole thread gets deleted, then it's totally appropriate that they should propose that. The other moderators (and myself) are there to check that they don't do anything inappropriate or out of hand. They're the only people I trust to have the power to delete threads because they have mechanisms to stop it being abused.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:46 / 18.05.04
So what happens if you start a thread, change your mind, and move to delete it when there are no replies, or just one reply that suggests the thread is a bad idea?
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
14:10 / 18.05.04
I don't know, but as a contributor to the thread in question I personally would be quite happy to see that thread go (if that makes any difference to the Conversation moderators).
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:34 / 18.05.04
I think it's a bit off to get rid of a thread you started. Better to modify if you decide you dislike the tone.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:36 / 18.05.04
Tricky - after all, if you have the power to delete a thread you started, then is it more honest to mov to have it deleted or to ask somebody else to move to have it deleted in the knowledge that you can then vote on it immediately to speed its passage? I guess the strictly scrupulous version would be to request the deletion and not vote on it...
 
 
Tryphena Absent
16:20 / 18.05.04
If you're that unsure about a thread mere hours (or minutes) after you post it than you shouldn't have started it. And for god's sake can we stop being so namby pamby about hurting peoples feelings after the fact- seriously, it's bloody stupid and there's nothing wrong with light mockery. Flyboy, your thread shouldn't have been locked, threads like that lift up as other people post to them, it could have been a work of comic value and instead it's become a whining monument to the severe over introspective mess that's barbelith at its most self absorbed. (Omygod am I turning in to Flux?)
 
 
Char Aina
18:32 / 18.05.04
If you're that unsure about a thread mere hours (or minutes) after you post it than you shouldn't have started it.

not everyone has the control you seem to assume is an entry requirement to computer use. it would be great if no one ever judged a mood badly regarding appropriate posting, but they do.

exhibit a speaking.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
18:33 / 18.05.04
Just in terms of Flyboy's, we've had threads like that before and they've never - *never* - done anything but harm.

Conversation threads are supposed to be deleted after a set amount of time anyway, no? I know that's not happening, but to the best of my knowledge it's still part of the deal with that forum.
 
 
Ex
18:49 / 18.05.04
The set amount of time's usually assumed to be more than two hours, though.

I contributed because I thought it was a general paen to how debates suddenly turn into overpersonalised moody gothdom - which I see on other boards, mailing lists and Eng Lit seminars. But not on Barbelith, overmuch. So I contributed. If there's a chance it could be taken as a thinly veiled personal attack, then yes, I agree with the K-C C that I don't mind it being wiped at all; board all sensitive and pink at present, maybe let the sting out of the sunburn.
But my contribution wasn't really a comedic masterpiece.
Which leaves us no closer to who owns the thread.

On a compromise to Tom's suggestions about preserving the sense of the argument without making yourself look better in retrospect, I quite like cusm's approach (well, not the initial approach, but the correction) - could the originator theoretically replace their first post with a post saying [This post has been deleted as the poster now regrets (causing offense, choice of language, starting the thread in the first place etc.); the poster hopes this doesn't cause confusion in the rest of the thread]?

You still get the fact that this can make a poster look waaaay better than their ill-conceived post-pub vent originally did, and they could always use the replacement post as an excercise in retrospective self-justification. And it could still totally mess up a decent discussion. But I feel it's rather better than tinkering with the content of one's posts to make oneself look better, or leaving a thread with all its seams undone.

How would mods feel about allowing something like that to be stuck up?
 
 
w1rebaby
19:44 / 18.05.04
I don't think it's a very good solution, to be honest - it's really almost the same as deleting a post except that it puts a placeholder there instead. (In any case people tend to quote the objectionable bits in disagreeing replies later on, which could actually make you look *worse* when they're taken out of context, and leaves people who come into it later very curious.)

I really think it's either (a) leave things as they are and make an apology later on, which is probably the best solution as long as people aren't arses about it, or (b) if it's just causing aggravation and keeps popping up, lock or delete it. I much prefer (a) but sometimes (b) is appropriate. I don't really ever see the need to edit posts themselves.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
10:14 / 19.05.04
As the mod who probably caused all the problems with Fly's thread, I ONLY wanted to lock it because I'm uneasy about there being open threads that most people can't see which other people can talk on, pace the deleted thread which F2B members were using to discuss a thankfully never actioned 'fuck shit up' adventure on Barbelith.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
10:22 / 19.05.04
That's a point. It'd make a huge amount of sense for any delete topic action to automatically lock the thread at the same time.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:17 / 19.05.04
Just for future reference: if you see a 'Delete Thread' request and you want to lock it as well, you can click 'reference' to open the thread in a new window, and then move to lock it there, while clicking 'agree' to the deletion request.
 
  
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