BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


The Velvet Underground

 
 
Sunny
21:27 / 13.05.04
this one's for all things havin to do with this band. mama pajamas, I fucking love this band. I just got the album Loaded after The Velvet Underground and Nico and White Light/White Heat(maybe I got that title wrong so please don't jump up my ass in the usual "oh you got it all wrong, you're an idiot and I'm the genius of the universe for catching it"-barbelith-manner).
well anyways, I'd appreciate it if you could tell me more about this band(are all the members still alive? does Lou Reed still make music?) and ALSO other bands that I'd like if I like this one, of any era really. like Kurt Well and Phil Spector? they good? dudes I don't know much of music but I'd like too. thanks.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:50 / 13.05.04
You'd have to be *very* tall for me to jump up your ass...

I think one of the Velvet Underground is dead - Sterling Morrison. Oh, and Nico, of course. Lou Reed is still making music, or at least was when last I looked; so is John Cale, although his stuff tends to be more experimental, in a fairly specific way. They collaborated on "Songs for Drella", an Andy Warhol tribute album.

As for more info - umm... New York band, based around Andy Warhol's factory. Released a small number of albums (I like "VU" personally, which is not really an album, but various bits of which were picked up in Lou Reed's "Transformer"). Lou Reed started hanging out with Bowie and Iggy Pop (both of whom I'd recommend checking out if you haven't, but the variation of good and bad albums is sufficiently great that that needs to be revisited when I'm not all sleepy). Muy influential, but for some reason my knackered brain is only coming up with late 80s indie bands...
 
 
Haus of Mystery
09:37 / 14.05.04
Try bands like Television, early Talking Heads, and Devo if you're into VU. All ace bands. Lou Reed's Transformer is worth a listen, but beware his 80's mullet phase. Iggy and the Stooges natch, as well as his two solo albums 'Lust for Life' and particularly 'The Idiot'. Also the compilations 'VU' and 'Another VU' of Velvets rarities are fucking skill, as good as their albums. Enjoy.
 
 
Jack Vincennes
10:40 / 14.05.04
Songs For Drella is certainly worth listening to if you're interested in what went on with the Velvet Underground... although it's mostly about Andy Warhol, there's a lot in there about the relationships between Andy and the band (specifically, as far as I remember, Lou Reed). And I think that album in itself is great too...

I like what I've heard of Nico's solo stuff as well, although since I've got a kind of 'best of' it might not be the most representative set of songs. Worth looking into, though, if you haven't already!
 
 
Alex's Grandma
12:18 / 14.05.04
There's a live album that's well worth getting, as I recall, though I've not heard it in years - somebody, er, removed it from a party a while ago, so I could be wrong about the title, but I think " 1969. " If nothing else, there's a really excellent version of Sweet Jane on there, much slower than the original, but it works, if I remember correctly.

As far as solo stuff by ex-VU members go, I'd recommend Coney Island Baby by Lou Reed, and absolutely nothing else - as an exercise in blowing your cool, or hard-won credibility, Lou Reed's solo career seems like an almost textbook example. You do have to admire him for his numerous acts of total self-sabotage, but maybe not to the extent of shelling out a tenner. Transformer's ok, but it's a bit, y'know, patchy, I've always felt.

Much better is the compliation " Close Watch " by John Cale, which shouldn't be too hard to get hold of. As with Lou Reed, he's a bit of a two-decent-songs-per-recording merchant, but unlike Lou Reed, he seems happy enough to have all his best work out there in one easy to absorb package, for those of us who drive round the British motorway system with our grey suit jackets hung just over our shoulders, punching the air, on the way to the next sales appointment. Or not. Anyway, it's great.

Otherwise, Love as a band were contemporaries of the VU, they were the Velvets with suntans and more flamboyant clothes, the West Coast version, but Forever Changes by them, if you haven't heard it, is genuinely terrific. It takes a couple of listens before you " get " what they're on about, but once you do, in my opinion anyway, it makes everything else seem a bit, y'know, silly.

Apart from:

The Perfect Prescription by The Spacemen Three. They were a late 80's UK indie band, not a particularly good period, I admit, but they seemed to see really hardcore drug abuse as a defensible response to the Thatcher years, so they sang about it, and I do think, song for song, this is much better than anything the Velvets ever did.

And:

Hex Enduction Hour by The Fall - It wouldn't be too hard to write a thesis about this, William Blake, M R James, etc, but I'd only end up making a fool of myself... Again though, this is the bloody cat's pyjamas.
 
 
Lord Morgue
12:59 / 14.05.04
Check out Lou Reed's self-parody in the old Daniel Stern thing "Get Crazy". If not for that, then Malcolm McDowell as the David Bowie clone Reggie Wanker. Or mad Punk bastard Lee Ving as Piggy, or the incomparable Nada, who really would get her own entry in the Girl Rock thread, if only she were real (sigh).
NADANADANADANADANADANADANADA!!!!
 
 
rizla mission
15:39 / 14.05.04
My most-played Velvet Underground thing (as in 86 million plays rather than 42 million) is a bootleg CD I got from a record fair called "the psychopath's rolling stones". It's got a picture on the front of the group in flowery shirts and bell bottoms looking like total hippies, and for some reason there's a pciture of a cow on the actual CD.

But the stuff on it is fucking ace - some John Cale era live stuff with completely fucking wild guitar freakouts that make White Heat/White Light sound positively restrained, as well as some really lively and more straightforward later live recordings of some of their hits, and some glorious bits of weird shit, like a 1966(!) demo of a great little tune called 'Sheltered Life' featuring Cale on Kazoo, and a demo version of 'Chelsea Girls' recorded by Lou and Nico in a (Chelsea?) hotel room - just her voice singing over wild, distorted guitar riffs. It's so cool. It's a great CD. I'd save it from my house in the case of fire.

The 'official' VU bootlegs box set, 3 CDs of live performances recorded by Robert Quine in San Francisco in 1969, isn't as good as it should be, but has it's moments.
The main problem is that, possibly cos they're in hippie-era San Francisco and possibly cos it's between the recordings of 'Velvet Underground' and 'Loaded', their playing is really slow and laidback and jam-based... so you see there's a 38 minute version of Sister Ray, which sounds like "oh, WOW!", but you get round to playing it and it's mostly like a bunch of Grateful Dead-paced jamming and Lou Reed mumbling..
Obviously there are some fantastic bits scattered around the 3 CDs, but generally only obsessives are recommended to buy it full price.
 
 
Sunny
17:01 / 14.05.04
wow, this is really really really really great!!! thanks so much. you ever read the jacket for I guess the latest release of loaded? says something about like only a few thousand people bought a velvet underground album, but they all started bands. how did Nico die?
 
 
Haus of Mystery
17:59 / 14.05.04
She fell off a bike.
 
 
TeN
18:11 / 14.05.04
"how did Nico die?"
drug overdose... well more acuarately, a cerebral hemorrhage.

and if you're interested in Nico, she has a really cool first solo album, Chelsea Girls. she has more albums too, but they're really experimental, and I don't really like them. I don't know, maybe you'd like them though. Download some songs and find out.

if you want to see everything you can about the band, you might want to see two movies in which they (not the band themselves, but their "characters" so to speak) make cameos. the first is I Shot Andy Warhol, which in addition to being a really, really good movie, has the members of the band Yo La Tengo (a really great band, who is often compared to the velvets) playing the Velvet Underground. the second movie is The Doors, which although obviously focuses on The Doors, has a scene where Morrison sees the velvets playing at Andy Warhol's factory (the show was called The Exploding Plastic Inevitable, if you've read the liner notes for VU&Nico).

Oh, and if you're looking for more music similar to the velvets, check out the Jesus and Mary Chain. They play the same kind of noise-driven pop, and one of their memebers even has the last name Reid! what a kawinkidink!
 
 
at the scarwash
18:20 / 14.05.04
The two Nico albums produced by John Cale are fantastic. I especially love The Marble Index. An exhaustive thread concerning John Cale's solo career can be found be doing the obvious. No one's mentioned Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music, so I will. It's basically half an hour of guitar feedback, and it's one of the most gorgeous things you'll ever hear. At points it reminds me of Xenakis, only less cold. If you like the heroin-buzzsaw sound of "European Son," it might be something you'd enjoy.
 
 
Sunny
19:52 / 14.05.04
I checked out Yo La Tengo before but didn't really get them, I'll check them again though. my friend said that they were in this one movie and did waiting for my man I think, I think it was called ziggy stardust er....yeah..is that right?
 
 
Jack Fear
21:21 / 14.05.04
Well, no. "Ziggy Stardust" was a David Bowie concert movie,and Bowie's band does a cover of the VU's "White Light/White Heat" in it. Bowie also recorded a version of "Waiting For My Man" at some point.
 
 
juan de marcos
22:16 / 14.05.04
An what about "Berlin" by Lou Reed? I just adore the sound of the crying children at the end of the record. (Legend has they really locked up some kids in a dark and empty room...)
 
 
Jack Fear
23:05 / 14.05.04
And to set the record straight: Nico did in fact die of a brain hemorrhage from injuries sustained in a fall from a bicycle, and not of a drug overdose.

Which is kinda funny/kinda sad; considering her decades-long history of unrepentant heroin use, I think she confounded everyone by dying in such an un-rockstar way.
 
 
Sunny
23:29 / 14.05.04
I did I'm a celebrity when he said that she fell off a bike, then believed the other dude and thought myself so gullible. is that a guitar at the beginning of Sweet Jane? what instrument?
 
 
A
04:09 / 15.05.04
You really, really should get the Modern Lovers' debut self-titled album. I think they just about did the Velvets better than the Velvets did. Their later stuff is fantastic, but not very Velvets-y at all.
 
 
rizla mission
10:00 / 15.05.04
(Legend has they really locked up some kids in a dark and empty room...)

Legend also has it that they were the producer's kids, and that he turned on the tape recorder and told them their mother was dead..

What a fucked up guy, to put it mildly.

...

In regard to other matters though, isn't the arbitary listing of stuff that sounds a bit like the Velvet Underground a bit self-defeating?

I mean, they've pretty much reached a level of influence wherein pretty much every vaguely interesting underground/alternative rock band would sound different without their presence.. it's like trying to list all the metal bands that were influenced by Black Sabbath, or all the punk bands who were influenced by the Ramones..

Nobody before or since has shredded like 'Herion' though. And 'White Light..', man, it still sounds like utter fucking insanity these days.. sit back and imagine what it must have sounded like back in 1968!
 
 
Sunny
03:19 / 18.05.04
yeah yer right, well like what I really wanted but didn't really explain quite well is like like, other bands that are as influential as this one of the same era, considering that I missed that whole time. not like bands that sound like them, you know. what about Kurt Well and Phil Spector?! the jacket on Loaded references them. but like anyways you've given me enough to go fetch so far, and I get paid friday!
 
 
rizla mission
21:15 / 18.05.04
Who's this Kurt Well?

I've never heard of him.
 
 
Jack Fear
22:13 / 18.05.04
I'm thinking it's a misreading for Kurt Weill, which would be another kettle of fish entirely...

Weill (pronounced "vile," BTW), born 1900, died 1950. Huge, huge figure in 20th century music. Composer of popular songs, light opera, theatrical musicals. Output most conveniently divided between his German stuff in collaboartion with playwright Bertolt Brecht, much of it explicitly political and thematically trangressive (The Threepenny Opera et cetera) and his later work in America (where he'd gone to flee the Nazis) with lyricists Maxwell Anderson, Ira Gershwin, and so on.

His work with Brecht had an instantly-recognizable sound--American jazziness blended with German oom-pah; skewed melodies, off-kilter rhythms, emblematically European. Among their best-known songs: "Mack the Knife" (from Threepenny Opera, "Alabama Song" aka "Whiskey Bar" (which The Doors covered).

In his American period, the songs were just as harmonically sophisticated but much more conventionally pretty: "September Song" (which Lou Reed covered), "My Ship" (Miles Davis did this on Miles Ahead), "Speak Low" and many others.

Recommended recordings of Weill songs: the all-star tribute "Septmeber Songs," with Nick Cave, PJ Harvey et al, is as good a place as any to start.

Weill and Brecht are both huge, huge, HUGE figures in 20thC. culture, and further research on either would surely be rewarding.

Now if somebody would give us a potted history of Phil Spector, from the year dot to his current legal troubles, we could all go to bed happy...
 
 
rizla mission
12:47 / 19.05.04
ooh, that guy! Right, ok.

Presumably the reference to him in the Velvets sleeve notes would relate to the Lou Reed cover mentioned above..
 
 
Sunny
17:18 / 20.05.04
yeah, I mispelled it, it does say Kurt Weill. sorry.
 
 
Sunny
05:48 / 22.05.04
whats the theatre of cruelty? and Andy Warhol's Bad?
 
 
Jack Fear
14:10 / 22.05.04
Okay--Method, not to sound flippant here, but you are posting to the Internet, which gives you access to something like the sum total of human knowledge, and your time might be better spent running some of these names through a search engine (like Google) rather than simply asking other people to do it for you.

That said: the Theatre of Cruelty was a French theatrical movement associated with the mad genius Antonin Artaud, the aim of which was, again, transgression, speaking the unspeakable, taking audiences out of their comfort zones, and blah blah revolutioncakes.

"Bad" is/was a film by the American pop artist Andy Warhol, who "discovered" the VU, introduced them to Nico,and first brought them to audiences as the house band for his travelling art-and-performance roadshow, the Exploding Plastic Inevitable. He nominally produced their first album (though he had no tehnical knowledge of the recording process whatever), and designed its famous banana cover.

The history of the VU is very much tied up with the history of Warhol, Paul Morrissey, and the Factory--the epicenter of New York City's Pop Art scene in the late 1960s. Understanding that scene is crucial to understanding the VU--the polymorphous sexuality, the drugs, the oppositional stance, the visual aspect, the Europhilia.

Other names worth running through Google: Leopold von Sacher-Masoch, German author of the novel Venus In Furs, from whose name we get the term "masochism." Delmore Schwartz (sp?), American poet who was Lou Reed's teacher at Syracuse University. Aaron Copland, American composer, who gave a young John Cale his entree to the American music scene. John Cage, American minimalist composer, with whom Cale was briefly associated. LaMonte Young, American avant-garde composer, who worked with Cale on sound and installation projects as part of an art-music group called the Dream Syndicate. Pickwick Records, a grindhouse label that churned out knockoffs of pop hits of the day, and where Lou worked as a house songwriter.

This is tip-of-the-iceberg stuff. There are many, many books about the VU and its members, many of which would be availablke in your local library,if your library is any good at all. Especially recommended are the early chapters of Cale's autobiography What's Welsh For Zen? (written with Victor Bockriss and designed & illustrated by Dave McKean). Also seek out the film Nico/Icon.
 
 
TeN
14:34 / 22.05.04
"your time might be better spent running some of these names through a search engine (like Google)"

I'd recomend Wikipedia.
 
 
Sunny
16:28 / 22.05.04
I just prefer human to human interaction is all, excuse me.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
18:20 / 22.05.04
Group hug, anyone? Try out Jonathan Richman while you're at it.
 
  
Add Your Reply