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Quantum mechanics and prediction

 
 
Mr Messy
07:57 / 11.05.04
Not sure how to go about this one.

I was in a chinese buddhist temple in Singapore the other week and saw lots of people kneeling on a red square of carpet in front of a statue of buddha. They held large cylindrical containers, full of little bamboo sticks, which they shook vigorously making an almighty racket. There were several signs around saying that Mediums were forbidden from entering the temple, and that fortune telling was also banned.
I asked one of the monks what was going on and he explained the process to me. You take a cylinder, kneel before the Buddha, ask a question of him, and shake. One bamboo stick will fly from the container and to determine whether this is the true stick for you, you throw two red things (a bit like the false lips you get in Christmas crackers) and if they land on alternate sides then all is well and this is the right stick for you.

Got it?

The monk gave me a cylinder of bamboo sticks and urged me to have a go. So I shook it, thinking 'Should I continue being a counsellor when I get home?' and lo and behold a bamboo stick shot out of the cylinder. I threw the lips and apparently this was the stick for me. I showed the bamboo to the monk causing him to declare "Ah, No 78, very good for you!" and handed me a slip of paper. This is what it said:

"Water put on fire to boil. It is medium hot just nice to drink. For travelling or new approach, it is the right time as one gains approval and will have the means.

INTERPTRATION: GOOD

One is free. Sickness will be cured by a skilled doctor. Luck is around."


Now, I'm not well read on the I Ching but if there are any of you familiar with it then does this sound similar at all?
I'm also struggling to remember some of the things I've read concering Quantum mechanics with regard to prediction. What I can remember is that we find meaning from random images/objects. I'm wanting to write this all down for my weblog, and would like to be able to explore some of these ideas with some coherance. Any help/net resources would be wonderful. Please note, I'm nowhere near a western bookshop at the moment.

Ta.
 
 
illmatic
10:01 / 11.05.04
Ey up mate, hope you're enjoying your travels.

Yes, it defintely does sound like the I Ching, or I Ching related. It doesn't surprise me at all that the Buddhists there have a related method of divination. (There are several different systems in China that haven't made it to the West). The two most well known methods of consulting the I Ching are the casting of coins and yarrow stalks - sounds rather like the bamboo sticks you were talking of. The former method is the most popular here, as it's simplier. With regards to the latter, you'd cast select sticks from a bundle of 50 and subject them to a series of rules until you get the lines of your hexagram. Sounds like what you've got there is an abbreviated version of this process. The number 78 puzzled me a bit as there's only 64 hexagrams (8x8) but who knows...?

You can find a full text of Richard Wilhelm's I Ching (the original and still the best) here

Water over Fire gives us Heaxagram 63, After Completion. (Quite striking - completion of travel, perhaps. The I Ching's admonitions to attend to details in such a sitution make sense to me here anyway).

Wilhelm's translation:

THE JUDGMENT

AFTER COMPLETION. Success in small matters.
Perseverance furthers.
At the beginning good fortune.
At the end disorder.

The transition from the old to the new time is already accomplished. In principle, everything stands systematized, and it si only in regard to details that success is still to be achieved. In respect to this, however, we must be careful to maintain the right attitude. Everything proceeds as if of its own
accord, and this can all too easily tempt us to relax and let thing take their course without troubling over details. Such indifference is the root of all evil.
Symptoms of decay are bound to be the result. Here we have the rule indicating the usual course of history. But this rule is not an inescapable law. He who understands it is in position to avoid its effects by dint of unremitting
perseverance and caution.

THE IMAGE

Water over fire: the image of the condition
In AFTER COMPLETION.
Thus the superior man
Takes thought of misfortune
And arms himself against it in advance.

When water in a kettle hangs over fire, the two elements stand in relation and thus generate energy (cf. the production of steam). But the resulting tension demands caution. If the water boils over, the fire is extinguished an its energy is lost. If the heat is too great, the water evaporates into the air. These elements here brought in to relation and thus generating energy are by nature hostile to each other. Only the most extreme caution can prevent
damage. In life too there are junctures when all forces are in balance and work in harmony, so that everything seems to be in the best of order. In such times only the sage recognizes the moments that bode danger and knows how
to banish it by means of timely precautions.


They aren't using the method Wilhelm describes as they are gave you a single hexagram rather than making use of the process by which one hexagram (situation) changes into another. This process brings the "changing lines" into play which I always find to be the most interesting aspect of a divination. Hope this helps. If the text appended above confuses you, see it as describling the situation concerned rather than a specic answer to a question. I tend not to ask yes/no queries - I rather look at the consequences of going ahead, then divine again for not going ahead. Would have a go at the rest of your question but I have work to do. Curses.

BTW mate, having met you, I'd say you were eminently suitable to work as a counseller. If you want to look me up for a divination when you get back, drop me a PM sometime. I would do it over the net for you, but I prefer face to face, unless the situation is really dire.

Cheers
 
 
Unconditional Love
15:46 / 11.05.04
http://www.witchscauldron.net/cauldron/crowdiv.htm

another form of buddhist divination is here tibetan in origin.

there is also a form of divination using a skull mala counting in threes with eagle raven and ? i forget.

http://www.khandro.net/practice_mala.htm

but this article explains it two thirds down the page. in fact not a bad article about malas in general.

quantum predictions brought up alot of equations that were way over my head, and alot of dysfunctional language i could not make head nor tail ov mister.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
17:30 / 11.05.04
Knowing what (little) I know about Quantum Mechanics, prediction, divination and clarivoyance seem to be allowed by Moore's theorum of Quantum Entanglement.
Basically, and you all probably know this, when two sub-atomic particles meet they become 'entangled' so from then on they can exchange 'information' no matter where they are in spacetime. Imagine hitting a snooker ball and having it pot another ball on a different table twenty years from now: subatomic particles are doing this all the time. But, and here's where I think precognition/divination comes into it, particles aren't just entangled with one other particle, but form vast chains of information exchange, like an internet present everywhere all at once. Bamboo sticks and tea-leaves are exchanging 'information' with Caesar's moustache and the exhaust port of the first spaceship to reach Alpha Centuri.
Here's where the speculation comes in: Chaos/Complexity theory states that these microscopic flucuations cause macroscopic changes. Theoretically a person could look into the 'web' of quantum entanglement, probably subconciously, the data that is gathered could manifest itself in either precognition (thinking about a person before they call on the phone) or in the results of this kind of divination. Although the processes that caused that particular piece of bamboo to fall out are incredibly complex it is possible that a person's subconcious mind could cause them to shake the cylinder in just the right way to get that particular piece of bamboo, which was already selected, by your subconcious mind, as the best one for you.
.
.
.
Jeez, I really need to get my lips off a bong and onto a woman.
Enjoy your travels Messy.
 
 
Quantum
21:37 / 11.05.04
I'm not a mechanic, but I know about divination. I'm not convinced by the subconscious direction of stuff etc. but I did come across a magical explanation of divination in a tarot book as a reflection of a higher order, simpler than the effects of that order (the world we perceive). One way of looking at it is that the complexities we perceive are projected by us onto the world.
Anyway, note that our consciousnesses inhabit our brains (kinda), which are formed of quantumstuff which interacts with Caesar's moustache and the beagle probe and your future self etc. it's a tangled web we weave. The divinatory techniques we use are just a way to make conscious sense of the information we're flooded with, seperating signal and noise. (Geeknote; Morrison pretty much asserts the universe is less complex than it appears in the Invisibles , Robin's photo of the cloud, remember?)

Seemed like a positive message to me though, keep up the counselling. Maybe get a second divine opinion though

all love to the Magick Temple inhabitants
Quantum
 
 
Mr Messy
08:18 / 15.05.04
thanks for all of the above input.

The more I thought about No 78, the more I focused on 'it is medium hot, just right to drink'; indicating to me that I should not go to extremes, but seek a middle path.

Perhaps when I return I'll have a two jobs. Gardening and Psychotherapy.

Illmatic, I may take you up on that offer when I return.

The stuff I've found on Quantum mechanics has also baffled me, but I appreciate the takes of everyone here. I like what you say Quantum, makes lots of sense, hmmm.

Also ta for the Malas link. Everyone should look at this, it's great.

Ta again.
 
 
eco
14:54 / 16.05.04
Although not related to your Eastern experience, have a look at http://www.mikecrowson.co.uk/adepts.html . There's a whole lot more of interest too at http://www.mikecrowson.co.uk/esoteric.html .
 
  
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