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Birmingham anti-war party has pro-life connections

  
 
Jester
15:33 / 10.05.04
Thought I should post this up for the benefit of anyone from Birmingham.

Also, how dissapointing is it that George Galloway turns out to be pro-life? I really liked him at one point. *sigh*

--- In Birmingham-Bi-Women@yahoogroups.com, "Kidda Trip"
wrote:
>
>
>
> Greeting ladies,
>
> i apologise for the size of this email but we feel its something local
> people especially those concerned with LGB rights should know about
>
> Those of you local to brum may have already had an election address from the
> 'Respect Coalition'/Peoples justice party and already be sharing our
> concerns
>
> Those of you who havent, the respect coalition was formed out of the
> Anti-war movement that came about over the course of the past three years.
> The local group being 'Birmingham Stop The War Coalition'.
>
> Without getting to much into lefty politics, from the start the BSTWC was
> dominated by the very dubious Socialist Workers Party (SWP) who have now
> dominated the Respect coalition.
>
> The respect coalition have worked hard to take advantage of the local muslim
> population's vote after recent events in Iraq, a few weeks ago Respect MP
> George Galloway made comments concerning the issue of abortion, making
> reference to the fact that he was Pro-life and seemingly trying to get
> onside of the muslim clerics, many suggesting he was trying to say that if
> he came to power he'd vote for abortion to made illegal, these are comments
> he still wont answer questions on
>
> Now im afraid to say they've gone one further. As you'd expect from a party
> like this, they've gone down the normal route of spouting the ole '
>
> ''we've marched for Afghanistan, we've marched for Iraq, let's march to the
> ballot box on June 10th, yadda yadda."
>
>
> informing the people of Birmingham that
>
>
> '' local elections are being held on the same day as the European elections.
> On polling day we ask everyone to mark 'X' next to 'Respect' on the ballot
> paper for the European elections. And vote People's Justice Party (PJP) for
> the elections to Birmingham City Council".
>
>
> The PJP are a local Brum party that started out as a single issue party
> around the issue of human rights abuses in Kashmir. They've since developed
> a broader line holding, for example, anti-privatisation policies, which in
> itself is all good, yes?
>
> but further down , their election promotional literature includes an attack
> on the Liberal Democrats, except this time the issue they have with Charlies
> band of wiberal warriors is that Charlie's mob is promoting "gay sex
> education in schools" and generally supporting LGB rights which the
> literature claims to be against Muslim principles.
>
>
> The supposedly socialist party of 'Respect' is asking us , the people of
> brum, to get into bed with a party that is anti-LGB rights. Normally this
> would be nothing to get to het up about but if RESPECT can mobilise the
> muslim poulation by taking advantage of the war in Iraq along with the
> dissilusioned labour voters then they have a good chance of getting some
> seats in west mids and following their lead the voters of RESPECT may also
> vote for the Anti-LGB Peoples justice Party
>
> we feel this is an issue more people need to be informed of, for if they do
> choose to vote on June 10th they should know exactly who it is they are
> voting for.
>
> If anyones got anymore information on this we'd be well pleased to hear it.
>
> love and rage
>
> Kidda
>
> West Midlands Anarchists
 
 
Bed Head
16:10 / 10.05.04
these are comments he still wont answer questions on

What does this mean, exactly? Are these comments on the record or not? Were they recorded in any way? Have you checked this allegation with GG’s office?

Also, in an election with a clutch of emotional issues being used to motivate voters one way or the other, you should expect all sorts of disinformation tactics to be rife. Cutting and pasting someone else’s anonymous rant doesn’t exactly clear things up. I’d say If anyones got anymore information on this we'd be well pleased to hear it is about right, but it’d be helpful to us all if you’d done a teensy bit of checking the manifestos for yourself before posting this.
 
 
Jester
22:05 / 10.05.04
OK, well, I haven't found anything specifically from George himself, but I did find this on Indymedia:

Monday 26th of April, Leeds University. Pro-life MP George Galloway is speaking on the Respect platform. We are organising a picket of the meeting demanding clarification from Respect candidates on how they would use their votes if elected.


George Galloway has consisted opposed Women's right to choose on abortion. The pro-life 'Right to Life' website desribes him thus:

"Elected to Parliament in 1987 since when he has consistently opposed abortion on demand and late abortions. He has also shown himself to be a courageous fighter against the use of the human embryo for experiments and against euthanasia.
In 1990 he voted opposed clauses aimed at legalising abortion on demand with one doctor needed only to certify that the pregnancy has not exceeded 12 weeks. He also voted against abortion up to birth on various grounds including handicap."

We are organising a picket of his meeting, and ask women to attend with suitable banners and be prepared to ask meaningful questions of the candidates at the appropriate time.

I also understand that Anas Altikriti -the main Respect candidate for Yorkshire- has previously stated that he is against abortion and would seek to make it illegal in most cases.

Please attend and show your lack of support for Respect if they are not prepared to take a 'courageous' stand in favour of our rights to control our own bodies.


And this which quotes George making a pro-life statement in the Independant.
 
 
Jester
22:21 / 10.05.04
Maybe, bedhead, I should email George Galloway and ask him?

I can't find the original quote in the Observer, but in this interview, he does say he supports the death penalty, another thing about George I didn't know for one.
 
 
Bed Head
23:18 / 10.05.04
Well, yeah, I think you should. These people are standing in elections. If they want your vote, they should answer your direct questions about this stuff. I found that Indymedia thing too, and it’s frustrating because it’s yet more questions being raised without any straight answers at all.

Er, on The Independent website I did a search on ‘george galloway abortion’, in the hope of turning up the interview where he made the comments referred to on Indymedia. One match, here, but it’s subscribers only. If anyone on Barbelith does happen to be a subscriber to The Independent online, perhaps they could swipe it and paste the interview up here?





I wasn’t having a go, by the way J. When I saw your initial post, I tried a google for myself, got about three posts into the same Indymedia thread you just linked to, saw yet more people claiming conspiratorial machinations to conceal The Agenda That Cannot Be Spoken Aloud, and I just kind of flipped. Sorry.

On the other hand, it’s never been necessary to scratch the surface too hard in order to uncover something vile about Galloway. If nothing else, he taught me years ago that peace campaigners can be scumfucks, too. And his seems to be one of those high profile, headline-grabbing names that can be used to swing votes for both sides of many different arguments. That’s not me defending him or his wacko ideas, just trying to disregard the emotive ‘name’ in the run-in to an election. His personal views are a matter for his prospective constituents, God help them. From what I can see, there’s nothing whatsoever in the RESPECT manifesto for European elections about abortion rights; they’re not necessarily a party which is pushing for a change of the law. If you’re considering voting for them, you should ask your candidate straight out about this.
 
 
Jester
07:18 / 11.05.04
No, but my understanding is that RESPECT was in fact founded by Galloway, when he was kicked out/left the labour party, so it does raise those issues.

I did email Galloway at his MP address asking a neutrally framed question about it: if he's not pro-life, I should think he will reply to correct this idea.

I also emailed a uk abortion rights website to see if they have more general info regarding mps and their stance on abortion, and galloway in particular. It seems like something it would be good to know about. I remember when I lived in Wandsworth, I never thought there was anything particularly offensive about the Labour MP Tom Cox, and voted for him. Then I got a stiff and patronising letter when I wrote to him about the Iraq war, and vowed never to vote for him again

And, bedhead, I;m not insulted, it's ok.
 
 
Jester
15:57 / 15.05.04
Well, if anyone is interested, I got a reply from George Galloway that speaks for itself:

Dear Jess
Thanks for that. I am myself against abortion; for religious and
philosophical reasons. Respect, however, is not. In fact if you refer to our
website www.respectcoalition.org you will see the section dealing with
personal self-determination in our programme.
With best wishes,
George Galloway MP

-----Original Message-----

Sent: 11 May 2004 00:25
To: gallowayg@parliament.uk
Subject: Abortion Rights


Dear George,

I was wondering if you could clear something up for me. I got an email
forwarded to me on a newsgroup that claimed that you are anti-abortion. I
have tried to find out if this is indeed the case, using the dubious means
of internet searches. I haven't been able to come up with a direct
quotation, so I thought I better ask you directly. Is it true? If so, for
what reasons?

Thank you for your time

Jess McCabe
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
07:39 / 16.05.04
Interesting... and somewhat disheartening.

Oh well... at least he answers his own emails- a rare thing in MPs these days...
 
 
Jester
10:11 / 18.05.04
Just to keep you all updated on me and George's discussion on abortion (showing kind of a limited understanding of the term 'Feminist' for a seasoned politician, but still):


Dear Jess
No, I am not against abortion in all circumstances of course and the two you
mention are amongst those in which termination of the pregnancy is the least
worst option.
I am not sure that a man can be a "feminist"; but, should it require saying
then of course I support the equality of all human beings - ironically one
of the reasons why I am against abortion in principle.
In any case
Yours sincerely
George Galloway MP

-----Original Message-----

Sent: 17 May 2004 20:51
To: GALLOWAY, George
Subject: RE: Abortion Rights


Hi George,

Thank you for getting back to me so quickly!

It is good to know. I was wondering, then, if that applies to women who have
been raped, or women who's lives are at risk if they continue on with their
pregnancy?

And does that mean you are not a feminist? Do you support equality for women
in other areas?

Thanks

Jess

-

To be honest, even though I completely and utterly disagree with him on this issue, I'm kind of encouraged that he was willing to enter into some kind of discussion about it.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
11:35 / 18.05.04
Speaking as someone who, if he had to get of the fence and choose one or the other would probably be veering towards pro-life himself, I'm kind of wondering why this issue in particular is being seen as some sort of massive 'deal-breaker' in every other respect - as in "I was a big fan of Galloway until I heard he was pro-life" ; "how disheartening"...

I understand it's an emotive issue, believe me - but it's not the only issue one should be judging someone's politics on, surely? Although Galloway has plenty of other 'issues' one could easily judge him on...
 
 
Jester
11:51 / 18.05.04
Well, I guess that depends on your point of view. I see it as a fundamental right for me to be able to choose what happens to my own body, and I would never knowlingly contribute to the election of someone who might do that.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
11:54 / 18.05.04
Yes, I don't support George Galloway because I think he's a prick. No, I've merely heard lots of anecdotal evidence from friends that he's rude, abrupt and at public events when most other people won't charge full rate for speaking because of the size of the event he insists on the full rate. There's also the small matter of that "Oh hail Saddam Hussein" stuff. I'm not convinced that there's any proof in the hands of the Daily Telegraph that he's done anything corrupt, but his willingness to give verbal support to Hussein leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

But back at the topic, what is George actually saying? I can't see anything on the RESPECT website that actually says that they are pro-choice, rather it would imply that they believe that people should be free to follow their moral beliefs, ie; that in a vote George would vote against abortion. There's an ambiguity that needs to be sorted out there.
 
 
Jester
11:58 / 18.05.04
Our lady, if you read the email he sent me, he is saying her personally is pro-life, but RESPECT isn't.
 
 
Jester
11:59 / 18.05.04
I couldn't find the part of the RESPECT website that he was talking about, either?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
13:04 / 18.05.04
Well, he says that Respect isn't anti-abortion, but his words do leave wiggle room for whether it's pro-choice...
 
 
Tryphena Absent
13:23 / 18.05.04
They might be trying to leave it ambiguous for electoral purposes. Frankly if they want to become a mainstream party in any sense of the word than why the hell are they going on about abortion? That's an issue that was cleared up a long time ago and a huge number of women in this country have abortions every year. I refuse to partake in the controversy surrounding the issue, we need it socially and they should refuse to comment on it ethically. They're using it as an easy issue and it's a proper shame.
 
 
Jester
17:04 / 18.05.04
Anna: I do see your point. But, even though it's not on the political agenda in this country for the foreseeable future, I still want to know where MPs/parties stand on the issue. I mean, maybe it's not important? The possibility of recinding the right to abortion in this country seems utterly remote. So, does that make it ok to elect someone who might/would vote against it?

I personally would rather know. Anyway, I am currently musing on non-combatative ways to reply to George's email, and will keep this thread updated if he replies again
 
 
Jester
17:10 / 18.05.04
Also, although it's not on the agenda in this country, it's worth taking note of the worldwide agenda. For example, would you want a minister in parliment that might lobby for policies that support abortion rights in the rest of the world, or one that would lobby for quite the opposite?

Especially in the context of the upcoming european elections, considering there are still countries in the EU that don't have full abortion rights, if I am up to date on my facts.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
12:32 / 19.05.04
I'm tempted to email Galloway myself, asking for clarification based on the ambiguous language of the website and his own known views. This, however, really doesn't endear him to me...
 
 
Tryphena Absent
16:31 / 19.05.04
Oh I understand why you'd want to know someone's personal stance, I just don't think it should be an election issue for a party.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
16:35 / 19.05.04
Oh and that article on Galloway doesn't enthrall me, it sounds like the writer has a thing against him, that writing style is intolerable.
 
 
Char Aina
18:34 / 19.05.04
th thing is, anna, RESPECT are talking about getting MEPs as well as MPs and MSPs.
MEPs will have more opportunity to exercise their personal opinions on abortion.
 
 
Jester
17:13 / 24.05.04
Well, I got another update. Rather a short reply to my lengthy email, but I guess there's a limit to our elected officials' patience for getting into these issues with members of the public

Anyway, George denies supporting the death penalty, although I have seen elsewhere him quoted as supporting it. And he says he wouldn't vote to ban abortion, which is something of a relief:



Jess
No I wouldn't vote to ban abortion and I have never supported the death
penalty.......just another smear I'm afraid
GG

-----Original Message-----

Sent: 23 May 2004 22:52
To: GALLOWAY, George
Subject: RE: Abortion Rights


George:

A feminist is simply someone that supports true equality, and many men are
feminists. Although a lot of feminists would say that taking an
anti-abortion stance is inherently anti-feminist, for a whole host of
reasons you are no doubt more than familiar with.

Although, I was wondering whether or not you have a problem with the fact
that restricting access to abortion is infringing on a woman's right to have
control over her own body, and in some ways is putting the rights of an
unborn fetus above and beyond the rights of the fully formed adult person?

And also, I have read elsewhere I think that you support the death penalty,
and I was wondering how that gelled with your position on abortion, as not
allowing a woman to terminate a fetus, and then arguing to support the right
of the state to kill someone, who after all may or may not actually have
done what they are accused of, seems to be slightly contradictory to me.

But then, of course, I am filling in the 'general' arguments to support
those positions, which may not be yours at all.

On a more practical note, if you support allowing a woman who has been raped
to terminate a fetus, then could the same argument be put into place to
support allowing a woman to terminate who, for example, felt she couldn't
support a child emotionally or financially? And wouldn't that put those
children born into that environment in a position of growing up potentially
unloved or even abandoned or abused?

And on a similarly practical note, what about the fact that prohibiting
abortion has the very real effect of making women seek hideous back street
abortions?

Anyway, thank you very much for taking the time to answer my questions
One last one, I'm afraid: would you actually vote to ban abortion, if such a
motion ever came up?

Jess
 
  
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